All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

[BWprowl]

I got Alpha Trion from G1 cartoon when he said it (in "The Key to Vector Sigma").

Now, I haven't seen the episode, but are you sure that's exactly what he said? As opposed to just "I'm really old?". Because the thing is...that episode was written before the concept of The Thirteen even existed (not to mention that Primus didn't even exist in G1 cartoon continuity), so it'd be pretty hard for Alpha Trion to declare himself part of that group.

[Onslaught Six]

The problem with going outside the lines in this situation is that one wrong move could result in killing Sunstreaker. Hence my point that these scientists would really need to know what they're doing before they start taking him apart.

...Why?

No, seriously, why? Why is Sunstreaker Specifically that important? He's not. If they screw up and they *do* kill him by accident, Scorpy will just head out and get another one.

Would you expect the person to survive under those conditions? Certainly not. There is a reason why we gain experience and learn how things actually work before we do something like that.

Again, the problem here is that you're assuming that the Machination are putting any kind of intrinsic worth in Sunstreaker's life. They've got a giant robot and they're going to experiment on him and see how he works. And if he dies in the process--well, oh well, at least they got what information they could out of it. Now go have that leader guy go get someone else. Like Trailbreaker. Trailbreaker sucks.

Now, I haven't seen the episode, but are you sure that's exactly what he said? As opposed to just "I'm really old?". Because the thing is...that episode was written before the concept of The Thirteen even existed (not to mention that Primus didn't even exist in G1 cartoon continuity), so it'd be pretty hard for Alpha Trion to declare himself part of that group.

Of course that's not what Alpha Trion said. I've been saying this for literally years, but we *cannot* take things that were babbled on about in the G1 cartoon as even remotely canon anymore--it's basically the same canon relationship that Metal Gear Solid has to the original Metal Gear games. So much was changed and added in the newer incarnations that these old G1 episodes--or cruddy NES/MSX2 games for that matter--no longer can absolutely count. Even if Alpha Trion said he was "One of the first Transformers created" or something along those lines, later material has definitively shown that he's Not one of the Thirteen.

[Shockwave]

That's right, he said "one of the first Transformers created". Now since all 13 of the 13 have yet to be identified, I'm assuming he was one of them since I don't recall anything specifically saying that he wasn't. Ok, so of the 13 we know the following:

Nexus Maximus
Prima
Logos Prime
The Fallen
Vector Prime
Alpha Trion? (I'm putting a question mark here until someone smacks me down with evidence that he's not, which I fully expect).

I suppose by extension the 5 that make up Nexus Maximus could fill in some more?

[Dominic]

Okay, back to the comics:

A friend of mine, (Zab), pointed out that Sunstreaker's eyes are going out on that last page, meaning he is dead.

I actually like this comic better now.

Dom
-and he better stay dead.

[Onslaught Six]

A friend of mine, (Zab), pointed out that Sunstreaker's eyes are going out on that last page, meaning he is dead.

I actually like this comic better now.

Like someone else said (Prowl?), I much enjoy the retcons if this is actually just Sunstreaker's life flashing before his eyes. It's the way he perceives the memories--and indeed, they might not even have happened exactly as he remembers.

Alpha Trion? (I'm putting a question mark here until someone smacks me down with evidence that he's not, which I fully expect).

Though it's unofficial, the Wiki says nothing of it. It does mention others such as Liege Maximo and The Last Autobot as possible O13 members, though.

Regardless, it's pretty pointless to try and quantify this kind of thing--we won't know if Alpha Trion is one of the O13 until we actually know who all of the O13 are.

I suppose by extension the 5 that make up Nexus Maximus could fill in some more?

No, that's not how it works, it's specifically Nexus Maximus who is one of the Thirteen, and not the individual TFs themselves. I've taken it to be that Nexus Maximus was created as one central being, and then only later split into fiveas a combiner. This is mostly because, as far as I've read, the individual components aren't even aware that they were part of Nexus Maximus until very recently.

[Sparky Prime]

...Why?

No, seriously, why? Why is Sunstreaker Specifically that important? He's not. If they screw up and they *do* kill him by accident, Scorpy will just head out and get another one.

Issue 1 of Escalation showed that Machination had gone through a lot of trouble to capture Sunstreaker in the first place. They had been spying on the Autobots for quite some time and running simulations on how to capture Sunstreaker specifically, even manufacturing a duplicate of Sunstreaker's vehicle mode which they blew up to fool the Autobots into thinking Sunstreaker was dead (for a little while at least). Once the Autobots figured that out, you really think Machination would have a second chance to capture another so easily? No, they only had one shot to capture an Autobot by surprise and they singled out Sunstreaker for that.

Again, the problem here is that you're assuming that the Machination are putting any kind of intrinsic worth in Sunstreaker's life. They've got a giant robot and they're going to experiment on him and see how he works. And if he dies in the process--well, oh well, at least they got what information they could out of it. Now go have that leader guy go get someone else. Like Trailbreaker. Trailbreaker sucks.

And once again you're failing to realize they needed Sunstreaker alive for their "Headmaster hub" and they wouldn't get another chance to capture another Autobot as easily as they did Sunstreaker. And Trailbreaker wasn't even one of the Autobots on Earth.

[Shockwave]

Regardless, it's pretty pointless to try and quantify this kind of thing--we won't know if Alpha Trion is one of the O13 until we actually know who all of the O13 are.

That's a good point and not to mention that the ones we do know are also spanning different continuities.

The Fallen (DW G1 'verse)
Vector Prime (AEC 'verse)
Nexus Maximus (Shattered/Classics 'verse)
Logos Prime (also AEC 'verse)
Prima (?)

So yeah, there's at least 3 'verses there for the O13 right there. And who's to say that they were the same 13 across all continuities? Maybe A3 was one of them for original G1 and he just never stated that there were only 13. But as you said, it's pointless to conjecture this until something official comes out that says "here's the complete O13, there ya go".

[Onslaught Six]

And Trailbreaker wasn't even one of the Autobots on Earth.

He still sucks.

[Sparky Prime]

Prima (?)

Prima was in the Marvel Comics G1 comics, so yet another universe from the others you listed.

[Shockwave]

I wasn't sure if it was that Prima or if the name had been used for an actually seen character at some point. If we add A3 to the list from G1 cartoon that would make at least 5 different continuities.