TF Views

Dominic wrote:The writers and artists involved could well be able to expand upon and add to the point and tone of the original "Watchmen". I am curious about what Cooke does with The Minute Men. How will he reconcile his flair for nostaligia with a series that will by necessity have menacing over-tones. (Most of the main cast are destined to die horribly, some at the hands of others.)

Conversely, why the hell should I care? I learned everything necessary to the story about the Minutemen from flashbacks and so forth in the original Watchmen (I'm going to have to call it 'original Watchmen' from now on, this alone is enough to drive me blind with rage) and it worked just fine. What could possibly be added that would enhance any of what was shown in the original work? And more importantly, how could it possibly matter when it'll all be stuff that Moore clearly didn't have in mind when he wrote the original series? It's be like if some hack came in and wrote a new story in and around the Count of Monte Cristo, where he revealed that Dantes actually took drugs or something while he was inprisoned on the island, and now the world as he sees it is an illusory, confused manifestation, and it totally affects his actions throughout the story, or some shit like that that *of course* Dumas had nowhere in his intent when he was writing the actual story. Shit like this is why this sort of thing is a bad idea!

Characters or not, the story is Moore's and Gibbons's, and rightfully revered as a classic, a tale that stands just fine on its own. Giving other writers the opportunity to over-write, retcon, and change the context of the elements of that story is pretty damn tasteless.

I get what Prowl is saying. I haven't read Watchmen, but to use an example I am familiar with... I wouldn't want to see a sequel to Harry Potter. That series of books is a self contained story and writing a sequel to it would be just for the sake of money grubbing.

Shockwave
-Romeo and Juliet 2: Capulet's Revenge! and A Mid Winter's Daydream.

King Lear II: HE'S BAA-AACK

It's A Wonderful Life 2: George Saves Christmas

To Revive a Mockingbird

Shockwave wrote:I haven't read Watchmen, but

You're getting my copy.

BWprowl wrote:It's be like if some hack came in and wrote a new story in and around the Count of Monte Cristo

where it's on the moon and in space and there's a transexual chick and everything's in this weird art style and the dude is voiced by Johnny Yong Bosch.

I say let people rewrite it however they want. My anger towards this is solely based on the quality of the work. For example, I was all for the idea of Beast Wars comics until the Beast Wars comics they made sucked ass. (I'm *still* for the idea as long as they don't suck.)

If you can build onto something and contribute to the work, then by all means do it. I'm sure parts of this will fit in with the original work very well.

Prowl, you got all you needed to know about the Minutemen from the original...in relation to the story. All 'I' really got was that they were a thing. They were costumed heroes and that's about all we got. For example, we don't get a lot about Mothman--we just find out he's in an insane asylum. He's only even mentioned to show that not all costumed heroes have a glorious end. But what about his prime? What's Mothman even like? Rorschach apparently looked up to him. Was he like Rorschach, or does Rorschach take it too far? That's something you can explore! And that's one character. Frankly, I'd love it if Minutemen were done up like it was an actual old comic book, featuring a ridiculous Golden or Silver Age-level plot like an old hilarious issue of Captain America. Or, hell, for as much development Comedian gets, not much is described about his old costumed times or anything.

On the plus side, we can guarantee these won't be origin stories! We already know what Doc Manhattan did to become what he is. Same with Rorschach and Comedian.

Onslaught Six wrote:

BWprowl wrote:It's be like if some hack came in and wrote a new story in and around the Count of Monte Cristo

where it's on the moon and in space and there's a transexual chick and everything's in this weird art style and the dude is voiced by Johnny Yong Bosch.

Gankutsuo’s a little different, that’s an adaptation, which is at least a little more tasteful than a sequel. It can be handwaved away as ‘Well they tried to re-tell the story, but they fucked it up a lot’. Plus, it’s clearly its own thing, not meant to be actually connected to THE story, as opposed to these comics, which are purporting to be canon stories that totally count, stapled onto the original, 20+ year old work.

I say let people rewrite it however they want. My anger towards this is solely based on the quality of the work. For example, I was all for the idea of Beast Wars comics until the Beast Wars comics they made sucked ass. (I'm *still* for the idea as long as they don't suck.)

Hey, I woulda been all for the idea of more Beast Wars stories too, if they actually added to the universe that story was set in instead of just rehashing the same three years of TV adventures set on the same friggin’ planet. But that’s neither here nor there. Beast Wars was already part of a commerical franchise, hell, it had already gotten a sequel in Beast Machines. Adding onto a story like that is totally in-bounds.

If you can build onto something and contribute to the work, then by all means do it. I'm sure parts of this will fit in with the original work very well.

I flat-out disagree with this. Tons of works are best on their own and left alone. Sure, maybe parts of this *will* fit in well, but will it be worth the other 90% that don’t fit in and just shit up the story?

Prowl, you got all you needed to know about the Minutemen from the original...in relation to the story. All 'I' really got was that they were a thing. They were costumed heroes and that's about all we got. For example, we don't get a lot about Mothman--we just find out he's in an insane asylum. He's only even mentioned to show that not all costumed heroes have a glorious end. But what about his prime? What's Mothman even like? Rorschach apparently looked up to him. Was he like Rorschach, or does Rorschach take it too far? That's something you can explore! And that's one character. Frankly, I'd love it if Minutemen were done up like it was an actual old comic book, featuring a ridiculous Golden or Silver Age-level plot like an old hilarious issue of Captain America. Or, hell, for as much development Comedian gets, not much is described about his old costumed times or anything.

You’re not *supposed* to explore it. The characters (and background guys) served their roles fine in the story as-is. I really hate to use the f-word after what we’ve been over in the last couple weeks, but exploring the backstories of one-off, demonstrative characters like that just comes off as fanfic-ish. We already know everything we need to know about Rorschach and the Comedian and everyone for the story to work, it doesn’t add anything to the overall themes of the book for us to learn more. I don’t need some writer who *thinks* he knows the characters better than Alan Moore coming in a doing shit like “Oh, the Comedian was actually abused by his stepdad when he was a kid, so he’s really not that bad a guy! This is real, this is the rest of the story, see?!”.

The entire point of Watchmen was to be a deconstruction of superhero comics, and making a whole bunch of extra tie-in series to explore things that had no bearing at all on what the comic was trying to do, and only serve to satisfy comic fans’ obsessive need to know every bit of trivia about their *favorite* characters just violently defeats the purpose of the original story.

I mean, most fans who read the original story couldn’t understand Rorschach’s character properly, do you really think some other writer who’s trying to appeal to those fans’ desire to glorify Rorschach as an awesome, likeable hero is going to be able to pull it off?

Or like that Romeo and Juliet with Leo DiCaprio and Claire Daines. Where they tried to make it modern? Yeah that was a trainwreck.

But I still get what Prowl is saying. Shit like this happens in Star Trek all the time with the worst offenders being the novels. Like the one where Trelane is retconned into being a child Q and "Q" has to parent him through adolescence.

Shockwave
-Gnomeo and Juliet on the other hand was hilarious.

What makes you think that any of the new books are going to undermine Moore's intent, such as by making Rorschach or Comedian in to nice guys? For all we know, these could work to undermine the misreadings about Rorschach.

The entire point of Watchmen was to be a deconstruction of superhero comics, and making a whole bunch of extra tie-in series to explore things that had no bearing at all on what the comic was trying to do, and only serve to satisfy comic fans’ obsessive need to know every bit of trivia about their *favorite* characters just violently defeats the purpose of the original story.

Actually, this could expand on what the comic was trying to do. You are right in that Moore was trying to deconstruct the genre. (We can argue about that being a good idea or the results of that later.) Can you not see the potential for a Cooke written "Minute Men" book to expand on that concept?

I am not above pre-emptive complaining and such. But, as far as I know, all of these guys deserve a little more credit than you are giving them.

If this was "Watchmen by Kirkman, Furman, Johns, Champagne and Stan Lee", then I would be completely on board with you. A few of those names are enough to put me off a book. These are guys who have not demonstrated the ablity to write at the level something like this requires. In fact a few of them have a demonstrable lack of talent.

But, those guys are not on these books.

Dom
-Shakespear's "Julius Caesar" rewritten as an action movie: As Caesar fends off an assasination attempt, his AK-47 runs out of bullets, leaving just one opponent standing. He fixes a bayonet to the rifle's barrel and locks eyes with the man who may end his life. "Et tu Brute?"

Dominic wrote:I am not above pre-emptive complaining and such. But, as far as I know, all of these guys deserve a little more credit than you are giving them.

If this was "Watchmen by Kirkman, Furman, Johns, Champagne and Stan Lee", then I would be completely on board with you. A few of those names are enough to put me off a book. These are guys who have not demonstrated the ablity to write at the level something like this requires. In fact a few of them have a demonstrable lack of talent.

But, those guys are not on these books.

Indeed, and I would have thought that the guys they *did* pick to write would have enough dignity and taste to say 'No' when asked to write cheap cash-in prequels to one of the more important stories in the history of the medium.

"Oh wow, Watchmen, the story that paved the way for me to be able to write the modern, respectable, interesting stories that made me famous? Yeah, I think the best way to pay my respects to that work is to undermine everything it did by sticking my own stories in between its pages." Show how much you loved the story by showing what you think was missing!

Again, it's not a case of quality or giving the creative teams credit; it's the fact that there shouldn't ever be sequels or prequels to Watchmen *period*.