Dark of the Moon Teaser now online

Money, violence, sex, computer graphics, scatalogical humor, racism, robots designed to be rednecks but given European accents, and maybe another sequel to the saga... what's not to love? TF m1, Revenge of the Fallen, Dark of the Moon and now Age of Extinction.
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Gomess
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Re: Dark of the Moon Teaser now online

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Dominic wrote:But it was equal and across the board.
I don't really think that helps... But hey, I'm playing devil's advocate for a dead guy, so there's only so far this conversation can go. My granddad was a pacifist veteran who learned a deep respect for foreign cultures through some crazy stuff that happened to him, and that's basically all she wrote.
Dominic wrote:serious research on ninjas
Hahaahahahahahahahahaa. See, this is why I love arguing with people about Naruto. Often naysayers will laugh at his garish orange outfit, claiming "that's not what a ninja should look like." Now, I'll rarely defend Naruto, but I hate inaccurate criticisms, and I have to say that a 13 year-old in a puffy orange coat is a MUCH more effective ninja than a muscular adult in a black (even when it's snowing!) bodysuit and mask carrying ostentatious swords. Surely the POINT of a ninja is you're not meant to KNOW what they look like. They're supposed to be able to blend in with their surroundings, which the characters in Naruto do far better than Mr. Eyes or Mr. Shadow. I think "serious research" should make way for "common sense" when you're dealing with a modern interpretation of already vague folklore that's been mangled and mutated for centuries.
Dominic wrote:The part where you said "Games Workshop".
Oright. Well, I've never read any of their fiction and likely never will. The hobby never appealed to me in the slightest, from the whole tabletop gaming thing to the GRIM DARKNESS ONLY WAR aesthetics.
Dominic wrote:Of course, if Bay does leave, they might as well reboot, if only to make the (likely lower) ticket sales easier to justify.
See, you came up with a reason yourself. =3 And he's said he's leaving, but that'll hardly be an end to live-action TF movies after they've been proven profitable, so we can rest assured we'll be getting a new director and- to keep up with the everchanging universe of the toys- a rebooted storyline within the decade.
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Re: Dark of the Moon Teaser now online

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Dominic wrote:They are shit. Look at the second scene of the film, from when the USAF Osprey is landing at the base to when Blackout attacks. Try to figure out the time frame. Thanks to Bay's inept editing and cutting, it is anywhere from 30 minutes to a few hours.
Yeah, that's an issue the first film has...time passes really quickly.
Why would the movies get a reboot. "Hulk" was a commercial failure. And, the "Spiderman" movies are getting rebooted because the cast is getting too old and nobody wants to do a good linear story and let Spidey age.
What? Incredible Hulk made a decent enough amount of money. I mean, all it had to do was be a decent Hulk film, and it succeeded in all the ways Ang Lee's film failed. (And failed in all the ways that film succeeded, but hey.)
Gomess wrote:
Dominic wrote:serious research on ninjas
Hahaahahahahahahahahaa. See, this is why I love arguing with people about Naruto. Often naysayers will laugh at his garish orange outfit, claiming "that's not what a ninja should look like." Now, I'll rarely defend Naruto, but I hate inaccurate criticisms, and I have to say that a 13 year-old in a puffy orange coat is a MUCH more effective ninja than a muscular adult in a black (even when it's snowing!) bodysuit and mask carrying ostentatious swords. Surely the POINT of a ninja is you're not meant to KNOW what they look like. They're supposed to be able to blend in with their surroundings, which the characters in Naruto do far better than Mr. Eyes or Mr. Shadow. I think "serious research" should make way for "common sense" when you're dealing with a modern interpretation of already vague folklore that's been mangled and mutated for centuries.
I hate Naruto because it sucks, not because it's inaccurate to ninjacy.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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Re: Dark of the Moon Teaser now online

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Onslaught Six wrote:What? Incredible Hulk made a decent enough amount of money. I mean, all it had to do was be a decent Hulk film, and it succeeded in all the ways Ang Lee's film failed.
That's what Dom was saying; Adjectiveless Hulk was a relative commercial failure, prompting the Incredible reboot. My point is that doesn't take much to prompt a reboot in mainstream fiction these days, though.
Onslaught Six wrote:I hate Naruto because it sucks, not because it's inaccurate to ninjacy.
Well, quite. I only like hip underground anime like DBZ and One Piece.
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Re: Dark of the Moon Teaser now online

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What? Incredible Hulk made a decent enough amount of money. I mean, all it had to do was be a decent Hulk film, and it succeeded in all the ways Ang Lee's film failed. (And failed in all the ways that film succeeded, but hey.)
I meant the first, Ang Lee, movie. Sorry 'bout that.
I don't really think that helps... But hey, I'm playing devil's advocate for a dead guy, so there's only so far this conversation can go. My granddad was a pacifist veteran who learned a deep respect for foreign cultures through some crazy stuff that happened to him, and that's basically all she wrote.
It is just tough to see Hama as a bigot, (for whatever other complaints I have about him), when the mockery was so even-handedly dispensed. The man had open contempt for Baby Boomers, the most populous generation in the US at the time.

And, given how Blaster and (to a lesser extent) Jazz were portrayed, TF was at least as bad.
Oright. Well, I've never read any of their fiction and likely never will. The hobby never appealed to me in the slightest, from the whole tabletop gaming thing to the GRIM DARKNESS ONLY WAR aesthetics.
I do not game either. I simply could not afford it, even if I had the skill the paint the figures.
That said, the setting is one of the more interesting things about 40K. How does one go about writing a "heroic", or even "good", character when they are (almost by necessity), affiliated with the bad guys? If you want a nuanced story with "both sides" getting a fair shake, GW is a good place to start. Check out the "Inquisitor" novels by Abnett, or much of the "Horus Heresy" series. "Execution Hour" and "Shadow Point" are also good reads.
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Re: Dark of the Moon Teaser now online

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Dominic wrote:And, given how Blaster and (to a lesser extent) Jazz were portrayed, TF was at least as bad.
Again, not in the comics. Blaster is a competent and overly compassionate resistance leader with an independent streak.... and also is black and likes music, I guess, but that's not as important. But yes, the cartoon, as with most cartoon adaptations, played up the worse aspects of the characters.
Dominic wrote:If you want a nuanced story with "both sides" getting a fair shake, GW is a good place to start.
MAYBE. Having experienced Romance of the Three Kingdoms (which I still haven't finished!) there's little impetus to engage with something like Warhammer... I'd feel like I was being asked to eat a Mars after a Snickers. Besides, you've ordered to me read enough for now. =3
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Re: Dark of the Moon Teaser now online

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A Mars after a Snickers..... Maybe it is because I am diabetic, but both of those sound deliciously forbidden. (Reeses trumps both Snickers and Mars though.)

As a writer, you cannot read enough.
Again, not in the comics. Blaster is a competent and overly compassionate resistance leader with an independent streak.... and also is black and likes music, I guess, but that's not as important. But yes, the cartoon, as with most cartoon adaptations, played up the worse aspects of the characters.
Of course, by that logic, the "GI Joe" comics had less stereotyping than the cartoon. Hell, the ninjas were players in a Greek Tragedy.
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Re: Dark of the Moon Teaser now online

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Dominic wrote:Reeses
*Hisses like Christopher Lee in the sunlight* NOOOO get that peanut butter death away from me!! ...Sorry, I am a Brit, remember.
Dominic wrote:Of course, by that logic, the "GI Joe" comics had less stereotyping than the cartoon. Hell, the ninjas were players in a Greek Tragedy.
Heh, good point. Except, maybe I'm nitpicking here, but it's interesting that your first point of reference for the storyline of two Japanese(?) characters is that of a classically Greek medium. A lot of people writing Kewl Asians actually totally ignore their cultural heritage in favour of portraying what they'd like to see a foreigner do, regardless of how relevant or borderline xenophobic it is. My memory of the Joe comics is shady, though, so I could be way off the bat. I do remember Snake Eyes teaching some kid with an eyepatch the "Rin Byou Tou Sha Kai Jin Retsu Zai Zen" hand seals, so I guess that's something.

...Storm Shadow really should just be called Arashikage. Especially now, in the Age of Information, when any 2-bit otaku can learn Japanese in 4 minutes. Hell, I'm pissed that they finally gave Sub-Zero and his brother "real" Chinese names, but THEY'RE NOT ACTUALLY CHINESE. And they still pronounce Raiden "Rayden". Ughhh. Racial laziness annoys me so much. =/

hahahaha

storm shadow is from fresno
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Re: Dark of the Moon Teaser now online

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The only child character with an eyepatch I can remember is Billy, but I guess that makes sense.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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Re: Dark of the Moon Teaser now online

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That Billy. What a one-eyed little scamp.
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Re: Dark of the Moon Teaser now online

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Hama generally researched his vocabulary. If you were too young to read Clavell, Hama would be as good a primer as any. Of course, even reading Clavell does not make one an expert on Japanese culture.

Storm Shadow's name worked in the 80s. "Arashikage" would have sounded much more exotic 25+ years ago, especially to adults. But, now, yeah, the "unpronouncable Eastern name" thing is laughable.

A lot of people writing Kewl Asians actually totally ignore their cultural heritage in favour of portraying what they'd like to see a foreigner do, regardless of how relevant or borderline *xenophobic* it is.
(Emphasis above is mine.)

The correct term in this case is "romanticized orientalism". Remember, in the 80s, it was hip to be Japanese. And, the Japanese had magical healing the spiritual abilities. But, I would argue that using ninjas to tell a Greek Tragedy is not really bigoted in any sense. If nothing else, it could arguably be evidence for some ideas being nearly universal.

Short summary:

Snakeeyes and Stormshadow serve together in "the war". (It was clearly Viet Nam, but the official retellings get hazier about this as time goes on, trying to simultaneously preserve and ignore the franchise's history.) Storm Shadow, a ninja apprentice who is just finishing his training, is impressed with SnakeEyes' skills, and invites his friend to study with him in Japan after the war. (SnakeEyes is an American, and has no ninja training at this point.) SnakeEyes, (whose real name is never revealed in the original series), declines, and returns home to his family.

SnakeEyes' family is killed in a car accident with the brother of the man who will become Cobra Commander. Cobra Commander is the the American Dream completely awry, with avarice and vanity supplanting effort and pride. Cobra Commander initially tries to recruit SnakeEyes into the movement that will someday become Cobra. After nearly giving into despair and rage, SnakeEyes realizes he needs help and makes his way to Japan, where Stormshadow welcomes him.

While training together, SE's skills surpass SS'. Stormshadow's pride is wounded, and he begins to lose face in front of his uncles. Eventually, the Hard Master, (the dominant uncle), names SnakeEyes as his heir, over Stormshadow. Unknown to anyone at the time, Cobra Commander has since hired Firefly and Zartan to assassinate SnakeEyes at the dojo. Zartan begins to find inner-peace and has second thoughts, but must complete "the job" before he can move on.

Tension between SnakeEyes and Stormshadow increases.

The attempt on Snakeeye's life goes wrong, and the Hard Master is killed. It appears that Stormshadow is the murderer. Stormshadow sees the assassins fleeing in a Cobra 'copter. He joins the organization in the hopes of discovering who killed his uncle. Stormshadow's desire for revenge cuts him off from his family and friends, while sending him into a serpent's nest.

The clan fractures, with many of the members blaming Stormshadow for the clan's ruin, (as he is the one who brought the foreigner into their home), and other simply blaming Snakeeyes. Ironically, many of them would be so blinded by rage that they would later fall in with Zartan and Firefly, despite knowing the roles both men played in the fall of the clan.

While working for Cobra, Stormshadow is shown to avoid killing when possible, even when confronting Joes. He takes Cobra Commander's son, Billy, under his wing in an attempt to prevent the boy from being killed or turned into a monster like his father.

Eventually, Stormshadow and Snakeeyes discover that Zartan was the killer. (Firefly's role would be concealed for several more years.) In the course of their quest for vengeance, Storm Shadow is seamingly killed, and later reborn. Seeking redemption, he pleads for SnakeEyes to forgive him. Storm Shadow eventually abandons his vendetta against Zartan, after realizing how pointless simple revenge is.

Stormshadow's path to redeption is complicated by Zartan, (who still fears retaliation), and the Red NInjas (formerly Arashikage clan members). Zartan eventually begins the process of redemption, but at that point, Hama lost interest of the book and things went down hill.


Dom
-and that is not even getting into Kamakura and the Blind Master.
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