TF Views

Shockwave wrote:But he originally arrived on Earth without a ship. And so did several other Cybertronians in both of the first two movies. Spaceships for Cybertronians didn't become a thing in these movies until DotM.

You're forgetting ROTF showed a crashed Decepticon ship as well. And even though several Transformers made planetfall with out a ship, that's not an indication they could just leave the planet when ever they wanted. For all we know, they could have been launched from a ship just for planetfall, seeing as those forms didn't appear to have any sort of controlled flight capabilities of their own. And of the 3 Transformers we've seen leave without a ship in the films, 2 transformed into flying vehicles, and Optimus didn't have the ability to fly without extra tech until the end of this film.

I didn't really forget about it, but that was on Mars and we didn't actually see anything launching from it. And, we also still see a bunch of TFs landing on Earth the same as in the first movie. The lack of any ship nearby kind of implies that they are capable of interstellar travel on their own.

I dunno, the movies are so horribly inconsistent that it would really be impossible to say for sure if they can leave whenever they want or not.

Sparky Prime wrote:And his ability to fly at the end of this film supposedly was part of his Knight upgrade when he took the sword, which admittedly I don't think the film made clear at all.

That's an understatement. I had no idea (in fact I'm still pretty dubious on it, where'd you hear it?) that him picking some sword out of a ship constitutes an 'upgrade', let alone one that would grant him flight ability that could reach escape velocity.

But as we've been over, a big problem with the films, ESPECIALLY this one, is consistency and thinking things through. It's likely no more thought was put into Optimus taking off at the end save for Bay going "And then Prime just blasts the fuck off at the end, that would be cool."

Bumblebee doesn't shoot at civilians purposefully like Galvatron does. Did you remember seeing any people on the boat 'Bee flips? Because it looked empty to me, docked alongside the river bank. Unlike Galvatron who clearly smashes up cars driving along the freeway.

You don't see any people in the cars either, but the implication is still clear. There's nothing indicating that the boat is docked or not, but it's still the sight of an Autobot, a Good Guy, tossing a random civilian vehicle to get mangled. Not to mention him torching a bridge just a couple seconds later.

Onslaught Six wrote:You can hardly be blamed. At one point, I was convinced Hound had died off-screen.

You were right about Galvatron, BTW. He just Barricade's away halfway through the fight, then suddenly turns up at the very end to go "Next time Gadget, next time!".

Okay, get this. The guy is clearly legitimately Irish (going by the one or two interviews I've seen) So why the hell does his accent keep slipping back and forth in the movie? Sometimes mid-sentence? It's terrible.

It's possible Bay had him record different takes of some scenes with him faking an American accent or not, in case they decided after production how Irish they wanted the character to be, then just sloppily edited what they had together.

Dom wrote:And, were there people on that boat? (I really do not recall.)

Does Bumblebee check? Does he even care?

This, this is the big point. We technically don't know who was on the boat, but neither Bumblebee nor the movie itself gives any indication that it was occupant-free, and that DOES matter in this sort of situation. Even Power Rangers had the good graces to tell you the buildings they were smashing up were in the abandoned warehouse district! Would it have been so hard to have Bumblebee toss a shipping crate or something instead?

My problem with this entire recurring gag (and it's recurring, there's very specific emphasis placed on the fact that she isn't 18 yet throughout the entire movie) is that if she was apparently only one year older, everything would be hunky-dory for everybody.

Really, her entire character is just glossed over, she has no agency and is literally treated as an object for most of the movie. "I'M NOT HERE TO HELP YOU SAVE YOUR DAUGHTER; YOU'RE HERE TO HELP ME SAVE MY GIRLFRIEND." Uh. Can't she be both? Or neither, and just be defined as A PERSON instead?!

Shit like THIS is why there need to be females in TF and they need to be treated as important individual characters, because the more pervasive "females who aren't just a male character's daughter/girlfriend" exist in any form of fiction, the less bullshit like this will come up.

All of this. The fact that Tessa's literally the only major female character in the film (with more than fifteen minutes of total screentime) and was as poorly handled as she was is shameful. Even Megan Fox's character was more of a character with her own independent wants and agency and all that.

I don't think Bay thinks about anything beyond the scene it's in. He certainly doesn't remember the rest of the movies, given that things completely contradict stuff in them.

"Optimus is a descendent of the original Primes! Except now, now he's one of these 'Knights' things that has never been mentioned before now!"

Shockwave wrote:I didn't really forget about it, but that was on Mars and we didn't actually see anything launching from it. And, we also still see a bunch of TFs landing on Earth the same as in the first movie. The lack of any ship nearby kind of implies that they are capable of interstellar travel on their own.

I thought it was on a moon of Saturn, with what looked like a ringed planet in the background... At any rate, it established they use starships as early as the second film, and was relatively nearby Earth where it seems likely the Decepticons launched from. We have no idea where the Autobots came from in the first film, but the implication was they were waiting nearby for Bumblebee's singal

I dunno, the movies are so horribly inconsistent that it would really be impossible to say for sure if they can leave whenever they want or not.

Except for both DOTM and AOE showing the Autobots needing a ship to be able to leave while only three with a built-in abilitly to fly are shown capable of leaving on their own...

Sparky Prime wrote:

Shockwave wrote:I didn't really forget about it, but that was on Mars and we didn't actually see anything launching from it. And, we also still see a bunch of TFs landing on Earth the same as in the first movie. The lack of any ship nearby kind of implies that they are capable of interstellar travel on their own.

I thought it was on a moon of Saturn, with what looked like a ringed planet in the background... At any rate, it established they use starships as early as the second film, and was relatively nearby Earth where it seems likely the Decepticons launched from. We have no idea where the Autobots came from in the first film, but the implication was they were waiting nearby for Bumblebee's singal

I dunno, the movies are so horribly inconsistent that it would really be impossible to say for sure if they can leave whenever they want or not.

Except for both DOTM and AOE showing the Autobots needing a ship to be able to leave while only three with a built-in abilitly to fly are shown capable of leaving on their own...

Except with no ship nearby in the first one, how are we supposed to assume that? And actually, I would bet that this is one of those things that got changed. Like they establish in the first one that they can just "meteor" their way through the cosmos but then later on they need spaceships or at least a flying ability. I mean, really, in a film where the writers themselves freely admit that they weren't even keeping track of the plot, I have no trouble believing that this just got completely lost in the shuffle.

BWprowl wrote:That's an understatement. I had no idea (in fact I'm still pretty dubious on it, where'd you hear it?) that him picking some sword out of a ship constitutes an 'upgrade', let alone one that would grant him flight ability that could reach escape velocity.

I don't know where it originated from, but I've seen several people on TFW2005 have said the sword was supposed to give him "Knight powers" and pointed out some subtle changes to Optimus after he takes the sword, with his gantlets being the most noticable alteration to his design.

You don't see any people in the cars either, but the implication is still clear. There's nothing indicating that the boat is docked or not, but it's still the sight of an Autobot, a Good Guy, tossing a random civilian vehicle to get mangled. Not to mention him torching a bridge just a couple seconds later.

Difference being those cars absolutely had to have people in them, they weren't driving themselves down that freeway, while the boat we apparently can't come to a consensus on if it was docked at the time or not, let alone if it had people on it. You're assuming the worst of Bumblebee's actions here when for all we know he may have taken care to make sure he wasn't putting anyone in danger.

Shockwave wrote: Except with no ship nearby in the first one, how are we supposed to assume that? And actually, I would bet that this is one of those things that got changed.

Because the films since then have established they generally have to use ships for interstellar travel unless they're equipped for it. You can't just ignore that because the first film didn't show the Autobots coming from a ship. And yeah, that was something they changed, because Bay didn't see the point of them needing ship if they could transform into one. But obviously they decided they can't just become a ship and leave whenever they wanted.

Well that explains that then. Just one more inconsistency. And yet another reason for me to not watch this movie.

Sparky Prime wrote:I don't know where it originated from, but I've seen several people on TFW2005 have said the sword was supposed to give him "Knight powers" and pointed out some subtle changes to Optimus after he takes the sword, with his gantlets being the most noticable alteration to his design.

That sounds...suspect at best. Oh, and it also reminds me: What the hell even was that 'Silver Knight Optimus Prime' thing Target's been pumping the hell out of? I'd been assuming it was a late-movie upgrade for Optimus, but then I actually watched it and nothing, so what's even the deal?

Difference being those cars absolutely had to have people in them, they weren't driving themselves down that freeway, while the boat we apparently can't come to a consensus on if it was docked at the time or not, let alone if it had people on it. You're assuming the worst of Bumblebee's actions here when for all we know he may have taken care to make sure he wasn't putting anyone in danger.

If the boat was docked, it wouldn't have been in the middle of the river that Bee and co were zipping over, there's no tether on it or anything. And he certainly doesn't *seem* to take time to inspect it for occupants before he just flips it up to get destroyed. That's my thing, they could have easily avoided this whole problematic point if they'd just had Bee use a shipping container or anything else that would obviously not have people in it, if they'd just thought about it for more than two seconds, but instead they didn't care and you wind up with this instead.

(Bumblebee's kind of a bitch in this movie anyway. Him getting all butthurt over the Stinger commercial and nearly giving everyone away and getting them captured/killed over it because he was throwing a temper-tantrum was way uncalled-for.)

Shockwave wrote:Well that explains that then. Just one more inconsistency. And yet another reason for me to not watch this movie.

I really wouldn't call that an inconsistency when the first film really doesn't address if they use ships or not. All we see is the 4 Autobots entering the atmosphere in those comet forms which isn't enough to go on. It was only behind the scenes they had the idea they wouldn't need ships at all, but seeing as that film itself really doesn't say one way or another, there is no contradiction when the other films establish that they do use ships. Save for the few that have the ability to do fly into space on their own.

BWprowl wrote: That sounds...suspect at best. Oh, and it also reminds me: What the hell even was that 'Silver Knight Optimus Prime' thing Target's been pumping the hell out of? I'd been assuming it was a late-movie upgrade for Optimus, but then I actually watched it and nothing, so what's even the deal?

That's the upgrade I'm talking about here that others have mentioned. When he gets the sword, that's when he becomes Silver Knight Optimus Prime. Like I said, I don't think the movie explains it very well.

Edit: Late update. Josh Nizzi updated his website with his AOE concept art. It shows Optimus Prime's Silver Knight upgrade is what gives him his new flight capabilities at the end of the movie like I've been saying. The final version in the film doesn't make his change to the Silver Knight as apparent (with all the silver) as the art shows though,

If the boat was docked, it wouldn't have been in the middle of the river that Bee and co were zipping over, there's no tether on it or anything. And he certainly doesn't *seem* to take time to inspect it for occupants before he just flips it up to get destroyed. That's my thing, they could have easily avoided this whole problematic point if they'd just had Bee use a shipping container or anything else that would obviously not have people in it, if they'd just thought about it for more than two seconds, but instead they didn't care and you wind up with this instead.

It wasn't in the middle of the river, it was close to the left side of the riverbank as they zigzaged over the river to avoid their pursuers. Looked like it could have been tethered to me and I'd think a motion like that would easily snap a tether. But at anyrate, I would agree if 'Bee was trying to avoid civilians they could have done it in a way that would have made that clear.

I agree it's not a contradiction, buuuuuut it definitely is inconsistent.

2007: They came from "Somewhere"!
RotF: There's a spaceship but mostly they're still coming from "Somewhere"!
DOTM: SPACESHIP!!
AoE: SPACESHIP!!