Comics are awesome.

[Gomess]

I'd still say there were problems with the story.

I hate to repeat myself, but could you be more specific? The criticisms in your last post seemed to be entirely predicated on continuity problems.

[BWprowl]

I actually have to wonder how Gomess would feel about Last Stand of the Wreckers. It only recently occurred to me that the characters barely *transform* in that story. I don't know how I missed that the first time through, that's usually one of *my* big pet peeves in Transformers stories. Was LSotW really just so good that I didn't notice?

I will throw in another vote for getting your ass to read AHM though, G.

[Sparky Prime]

I hate to repeat myself, but could you be more specific? The criticisms in your last post seemed to be entirely predicated on continuity problems.

That post was mostly to respond to the others criticisms. As I said though, it wasn't as well thought out as it should have been. Like, to use the Matrix as an example (ignoring the continuity issues with it for a moment), the story finally puts some focus on it, building up its role and giving us some insight behind it and then the whole plot point is essentially dropped altogether with the Matrix hardly even being mentioned in the second half of the story. At the very least they should have covered Megatron's true motivations for taking it. I have some other things in mind but I'm not sure if you want me to get into some spoilers that haven't been covered in this discussion... Anyway, that's how the whole series seemed to me. It was just all over the place at times, hitting on different things but then falling flat before it actually went anywhere.

[138 Scourge]

It only recently occurred to me that the characters barely *transform* in that story.

Alt modes are for wimps!

[andersonh1]

It only recently occurred to me that the characters barely *transform* in that story.

Alt modes are for wimps!

Exactly!

[Gomess]

Like, to use the Matrix as an example (ignoring the continuity issues with it for a moment), the story finally puts some focus on it, building up its role and giving us some insight behind it and then the whole plot point is essentially dropped altogether with the Matrix hardly even being mentioned in the second half of the story. At the very least they should have covered Megatron's true motivations for taking it.

Is the Matrix really a focal point of the story, or is it just to give context? A plot device? Would appreciate a rebuttal from someone else to Sparky's point, here. Fans of AHM, be honest; is the Matrix built up as important, only to all-but vanish from the story? This doesn't count as spoilers to me, and in all likelihood I won't read AHM for a good month or so.

*Feels like he's playing judge*

[Onslaught Six]

It's alluded in the early issues that Megatron took the Matrix. (The series' first shot of the Autobots is Jazz staring out onto Cybertron while Prime is hooked to life support machines.) But it's not explicitly mentioned until Issue 6. Prowl is all, "Kup, are you gonna tell everybody else that the Matrix is gone?" and Kup is all, "No, because the Matrix is super-important and if they find out it's gone, they'll be all sad and stuff." Issue 7 shows the battle on Earth and Megs actually ripping the Matrix out of Prime's chest. (This is half of why I like AHM, right there.) Prime gets better (surprise!) in Issue 9 and tells everybody anyway. Issue 11 has Prime and Megs fight (which is a *great* moment, it tops "One shall stand, one shall fall" awesomely) and Megs quips some shit about how all Prime wants is the Matrix. Issue 12 wraps stuff up.

Oh, and that's another complaint, about Prime. This one is legitimately bad; I wish it wasn't like this. Prime gets better in Issue 9 (which in and of itself isn't bad; we knew he would and Issue 9 is a fine place to do it with) but earlier in that 'same issue' Ratchet is all "I don't know if Prime is gonna make it!" And then like two pages later, Prime is better. That sucks.

[Gomess]

Ok, and *then* it's "totally forgotten about", as Sparky says....?

Because it does sound like it's pretty vital to the plot.

[Dominic]

The fact we are still arguing about AHM at this late date..... Oi....

I hate to repeat myself, but could you be more specific? The criticisms in your last post seemed to be entirely predicated on continuity problems.

Sparky's problems are with the pacing and the under-use of McGuffins. The Autobots do not show up for much of the first half of the series. This makes sense, given that the high concept is "how bad it would get if the Decepticons won". But, Sparky and many others have a huge problem with this. (And, things are bad for everyone, including the Decepticons.) And, Sparky does not like the idea of the Matrix as being important as something other than an over-powered RP McGuffin. Megatron has it, and is tinkering with it. But, his plans do not seem to hinge on it.

The Matrix is more a trophy in AHM, like marching through the Arche De Triomphe in Paris. It is not necessary to conquer France, but it is a nice ritual. Wars are often fought over territory or artifacts that have no real value. That was arguably the case with the Matrix in AHM.

Many of the "inconsistencies are caused my McCarthy assuming people can just sort of figure out that some things happened off panel, rather than showing everything in sequence. The Code issues show some of those events, but most of them do not add much to the story. (The Kup chapter is an notable exception, but that is because Roche had an intelligently written story to go wth Kup being repaired, rather than just saying "Kup got all better now in time for AHM".

But McCarthy pretty much threw that all out the window.

Furman through it out the window. Many of the other "inconsistencies" were intentional as part of an effort to distance the series from Furman's aimless writing. Furman lost his mojo at some point in the last not-quite-a-decade. He could not even make it through a standard "Infiltration to Devastation".

Starscream and the other jets taking F15 forms was another example of distancing the franchise from Furman's work, and possibly a Hasbro mandate to make the look like the stupidly over-priced Masterpiece fgures. That is all it was, but people just could not handle it. And, there is no reason to assume that the Decepticons taking F15 forms would be a down-grade. Just because they look like F15s does not mean they will fly like F15s. (How many police cars and rally cars can deploy artillery like Prowl and Wheeljack did in "Escalation"?

I don't see what you're referring to here... How do they portray it differently from the comic?

The wiki presented it as Cliffjumper saying that Drift "was so cool" when he was in fact clearly reacting to Perceptor's marksmanship.

Other post felt like it was getting bit long so decided to split things up a bit into two posts.

That damned "skipping" effect is a killer huh?

actually have to wonder how Gomess would feel about Last Stand of the Wreckers. It only recently occurred to me that the characters barely *transform* in that story. I don't know how I missed that the first time through, that's usually one of *my* big pet peeves in Transformers stories. Was LSotW really just so good that I didn't notice?

The lack of transforming really should not matter. "Last Stand of the Wreckers" is a well written comic, "Transformers" be damned.


Dom
-tempted by Costa's run on "GI Joe" ....

[Sparky Prime]

Sparky's problems are with the pacing and the under-use of McGuffins. The Autobots do not show up for much of the first half of the series. This makes sense, given that the high concept is "how bad it would get if the Decepticons won". But, Sparky and many others have a huge problem with this. (And, things are bad for everyone, including the Decepticons.) And, Sparky does not like the idea of the Matrix as being important as something other than an over-powered RP McGuffin. Megatron has it, and is tinkering with it. But, his plans do not seem to hinge on it.

I love it when people try to say what *my* problems are with the story. Especially when it seems they don't have a clear understanding of what those problems are. I've never said the story needed more use of McGuffins. Again, my complaint about the Matrix has always been that they needed to explain Megatron's *motivation*, and the continuity issues that went along with it. Megatron never even gets to his true plans. Instead, he literally spends the *entire series* waiting for Starscream to make his move and letting the Decepticon army become bored.

The Matrix is more a trophy in AHM, like marching through the Arche De Triomphe in Paris.

As we've gone over several times, the context in the story shows the Matrix not to be a mere trophy to Megatron. I honestly don't know why you even continue to stick to this idea when you've never been able to provide any evidence from the story itself that even suggests this.

Many of the "inconsistencies are caused my McCarthy assuming people can just sort of figure out that some things happened off panel, rather than showing everything in sequence.

Many of these changes are not small things. You cannot figure out why a character has a completely different personality "off panel" for example. This is the sort of thing that needs to be covered if you're going to make changes like that.

Furman through it out the window.

Furman didn't write AHM.

Starscream and the other jets taking F15 forms was another example of distancing the franchise from Furman's work, and possibly a Hasbro mandate to make the look like the stupidly over-priced Masterpiece fgures. That is all it was, but people just could not handle it. And, there is no reason to assume that the Decepticons taking F15 forms would be a down-grade. Just because they look like F15s does not mean they will fly like F15s. (How many police cars and rally cars can deploy artillery like Prowl and Wheeljack did in "Escalation"?

Guido Guidi confirmed that Hasbro asked him to use the Universe designs to help promote the toys. And IDW has held a policy of character designs being up to artistic license. It had nothing to do with distancing the franchise from Furman's work. And again, McCarthy had said there was an in-story explanation, but never explained what that was.

The wiki presented it as Cliffjumper saying that Drift "was so cool" when he was in fact clearly reacting to Perceptor's marksmanship.

I don't see that they even mention Cliffjumper's comment on the wiki.

That damned "skipping" effect is a killer huh?

Rather, a wall of text doesn't make for easily being able to double check if everything got covered that I wanted to.

Ok, and *then* it's "totally forgotten about", as Sparky says....?

I didn't say it was "totally forgotten about", I said it was hardly even mentioned after that.