TF Views

Sparky Prime wrote:I think you missed my point. Although most commonly blue, a sapphire can be violet. It still works with the whole emotional spectrum idea. Johns put more thought into this story than you give him credit for.

Except that Johns didn't create the Star Sapphire. And that the Star Sapphires are still pink, not violet, which was my original point.

Anyway, I think it's worth noting at this point that I don't really have that much of a problem with Johns. Heck, it was his work on the current 'Teen Titans' that got me into that series. I just think you're giving him a little too much credit on the concepts of the Technicolor Dream Corps with this series. Seriously, angry evil Red Lanterns? You made this stuff up when you were eight.

Furthermore, I don't really dislike 'Blackest Night' all that much. It's ain't that bad, especially compared to Final Crisis (of course, after Final Crisis, pretty much anything looks like a masterpiece). So far, it's just kinda *there*. Really, it comes off kinda like the IDW Beast Wars comics, where every other page is a big game to spot as many dead, bygone DC characters as possible. "Ooh look, they put Alexander Luthor in there! Those clever cards." The whole thing is just so knowingly predictable. If you didn't see Abin Sur coming back, you deserve to be shot.

Scourge, why the hell are you not reading Doom Patrol? The Second Feature is Metal Men, and it's awesome! I picked up the latest issue just to get the Sinestro Ring, and while the main DP story was a Blackest Night tale in full form (Robot Man is gonna fight his own dead body! They must've really pushed themselves coming up with that one!), the Metal Men story was a delight. It's *very* dialogue-based, but it's good dialogue, and it makes it work. Hell, the ending blurb even lampshades this point. I might just keep checking this series out.

BWprowl wrote:Except that Johns didn't create the Star Sapphire. And that the Star Sapphires are still pink, not violet, which was my original point.

Who created them is besides the point here. It's how they work with the Spectrum that's the issue. And the new costumes they've been using since establishing the Star Sapphire Corps look violet to me.

Anyway, I think it's worth noting at this point that I don't really have that much of a problem with Johns. Heck, it was his work on the current 'Teen Titans' that got me into that series. I just think you're giving him a little too much credit on the concepts of the Technicolor Dream Corps with this series. Seriously, angry evil Red Lanterns? You made this stuff up when you were eight.

Of course they went with the obvious choice being Rage for Red. Seriously, what else you choose for that color? People often describe being that angry as 'seeing red'. Why is this such an issue for you? No one else has ever done this '7 Lantern Corps following the light spectrum' idea before... If it's such a trivial thing, why didn't someone do it sooner? And again, the response to it has been extremely positive from fans, making GL the top comic these days.

Furthermore, I don't really dislike 'Blackest Night' all that much. It's ain't that bad, especially compared to Final Crisis (of course, after Final Crisis, pretty much anything looks like a masterpiece). So far, it's just kinda *there*. Really, it comes off kinda like the IDW Beast Wars comics, where every other page is a big game to spot as many dead, bygone DC characters as possible. "Ooh look, they put Alexander Luthor in there! Those clever cards." The whole thing is just so knowingly predictable. If you didn't see Abin Sur coming back, you deserve to be shot.

You're missing the point if you think you're supposed to be surprised by seeing who rises from the dead. They've made it clear from the beginning that EVERY dead character is susceptible to becoming a Black Lantern. Don't focus so much on the cameo. The whole point to them being there is the emotions that they evoke in the living characters. And really, it's more surprising when the Black Rings can't raise someone.

Sparky Prime wrote:Who created them is besides the point here. It's how they work with the Spectrum that's the issue. And the new costumes they've been using since establishing the Star Sapphire Corps look violet to me.

Well, they look pink to me.

Of course they went with the obvious choice being Rage for Red. Seriously, what else you choose for that color? People often describe being that angry as 'seeing red'. Why is this such an issue for you? No one else has ever done this '7 Lantern Corps following the light spectrum' idea before... If it's such a trivial thing, why didn't someone do it sooner? And again, the response to it has been extremely positive from fans, making GL the top comic these days.

That's my whole point. It's so trite and obvious. An eight-year-old reading his first Green Lantern comic could've come up with the idea of multi-colored corps tied to obvious emotions. That's likely the reason they're only getting to this idea now. They wanted to wait until they'd used up all their other ideas until they went and used the one that *everybody* thought of forty years ago. And it doesn't surprise me that Green Lantern is one of the top comics these days. There are two books dedicated to it, and they've been stuck in big, stupid, events for a couple solid years now (Sinestro Corps War, Sins of the Star Sapphire, Rage of the Red Lanterns, Blackest Night).

You're missing the point if you think you're supposed to be surprised by seeing who rises from the dead. They've made it clear from the beginning that EVERY dead character is susceptible to becoming a Black Lantern. Don't focus so much on the cameo.

I'll focus less on the cameo when they focus less on the cameo. Seriously, if you want, I can go through all the issues we've gotten so far and tally up all the instances of a big zombie crowd scene with a bunch of characters to Where's Waldo through. This is very clearly one of the Main Things they're doing with this series.

The whole point to them being there is the emotions that they evoke in the living characters.

Why do I need them to do this for me? I could easily figure it out myself. Of course Terra and Jade are going to provoke Love in Gar and Kyle. Of course when Dick Grayson and Tim Drake run into their parents' corpses they're going to feel Love, followed by Rage when they confront their killers again. People have already written years of stories focusing on the emotions these characters have in connection to these now-dead characters. Why do we need a big Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Indigo, Violet, and Blue Revue?

And really, it's more surprising when the Black Rings can't raise someone.

Because I really give a flying fuck about Dove.

If I wanna be preached at, I'll pick one up.

I fail to see where the "preaching" comes in. How does having something to say equate to preaching?

As for the Bible, I tried reading it once. Damned anachronistic language annoyed me and I gave up.

Characters drive the plot and the plot is where the writer gets to make their all important point that you keep coming back to. BW Gathering and Ascending is a good example of what I'm talking about. I just re read that again and, sure, Furman had something to say with it, but he just jumped into his point without taking any time to develop the characters. Sure there's a larger point there about how "drugs are bad, mkay?" and then there was the epic "OMFG THERE'S THE BIG BAD GOING TO END ALL OF CREATION EVAR!!" bit, but without developed characters, I found myself not caring about them, I didn't care what they did and I was really just wishing the whole time that Unicron would roll up and eat everything like breakfast cereal. It was a toy parade, plain and simple and every other issue had some event that was like "look! Here's 20 more guys you don't care about!"

Furman had nothing to say with the "Beast Wars" comics. It was just "hey look, your BW toy shelf, only as a comic now!!!11!!!"

Also, I'm calling it RIGHT NOW that we'll see White Rings before this event is over. C'mon, you were ALL thinkin' it!

Oh, I called this months ago. (But, yeah, either way....we are calling a stupid plot development.)

Especially the hair-retcon, which is my first sighting of that Silver-Age Fetish that Dom once accused Morrison of having.

Hair retcon? Please explain.

And, I would be willing to bet that the lack of flow you mention in "Batman and Robin" is intentional. (Morrison is one of the few writers who assume "meant to do that" with their mistakes.) I am avoiding modern DC, and Morrison, right now though. So, I have no intention of reading it.

I've got a heaping helping of praise for whichever author kills off Damien. I effing HATE that kid.

Wow, an obnoxious replacement Robin. Where have we seen that before, and how did it end?

DC Comics, you will not believe what happens next....again.....

Anyway, courage isn't really an emotion either. It's a quality you have that allows you to overcome fear and so forth. It's not really a 'feeling'.

So, would that make it the absence of an emotion then? Oooohhhhhhhhh, I am clever like Johns and Morrison. So is Prowl.

Seriously, angry evil Red Lanterns? You made this stuff up when you were eight.

And knew it was stupid when I was 12. (I really did not discover DC until I was maybe 11 or 12, so ya know.)

It's ain't that bad, especially compared to Final Crisis (of course, after Final Crisis, pretty much anything looks like a masterpiece).

I have to disagree here. As much as I hated "Final Crisis", and the "Countdown" leading to it, they are still better than "Blackest Night". Morrison is being intellectually dishonest with "Final Crisis", but at least he has *something* to say. And, his stuff is always interesting to read, even if it gives the impression that Morrison is laughing at the reader behind every panel. And, as (unreadably) bad as "Countdown" was, I give it points for style in mirroring "52". "52" was about starting readers off with low expectations. Then, "Countdown" started off with high expectations, and brought them crashing down, along with its issue count.

"Blackest Night" is just inarticulate, loud and obnoxious.

This is very clearly one of the Main Things they're doing with this series.

No, teh point is to have them fighting teh ded guyz they luved in lyf.

Why do we need a big Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Indigo, Violet, and Blue Revue?

Because Johns is writing the bad ideas we had as kids. What I think is most interesting about Johns is how much he manages to epitomize DC's style of "we will publish crap and tell you it is good", while Marvel just publishes crap without telling you it is any good.



Dom
-just realized that "All Star Superman" is *still* not out in soft-cover. Shame on DC for that.

When I say preaching it's the act, not the message. Someone who's just out to make a point is "preaching" (at least for the purposes of this discussion).

The Angolmois Energy was clearly meant to be regarded as some sort of Cybertronian equivilant to Meth and therefore the "drugs are bad, mkay" message was there regardless of the fact that it was burried under the toy parade.

Given that Furman has never been subtle, I am not sure the meth thing is actually in there.

If it is, then "The Ascending" is even worse, as it makes junkies out of 2/3 of the cast.


There is a difference between having something to say, and preaching though. If the writers is demonstrating understanding of something, but not trying to make a moral case, that is not preaching.

Dom

BWprowl wrote:That's my whole point. It's so trite and obvious. An eight-year-old reading his first Green Lantern comic could've come up with the idea of multi-colored corps tied to obvious emotions. That's likely the reason they're only getting to this idea now. They wanted to wait until they'd used up all their other ideas until they went and used the one that *everybody* thought of forty years ago. And it doesn't surprise me that Green Lantern is one of the top comics these days. There are two books dedicated to it, and they've been stuck in big, stupid, events for a couple solid years now (Sinestro Corps War, Sins of the Star Sapphire, Rage of the Red Lanterns, Blackest Night).

Maybe in hindsight it seems obvious, but clearly, no one has done it before. Again, if *everybody* thought of it forty years ago, why didn't they do it then? I doubt they "used up all their other ideas" or were waiting to do it. Maybe this isn't as trite and obvious as you seem think it is.

I'll focus less on the cameo when they focus less on the cameo. Seriously, if you want, I can go through all the issues we've gotten so far and tally up all the instances of a big zombie crowd scene with a bunch of characters to Where's Waldo through. This is very clearly one of the Main Things they're doing with this series.

Again, you're missing the point if you think that's what they're doing. Sure you could pick out all the cameos, but again, that isn't the point of why those characters have been risen from the dead, and that's far from the main thing they're doing with the series.

Why do I need them to do this for me? I could easily figure it out myself. Of course Terra and Jade are going to provoke Love in Gar and Kyle. Of course when Dick Grayson and Tim Drake run into their parents' corpses they're going to feel Love, followed by Rage when they confront their killers again. People have already written years of stories focusing on the emotions these characters have in connection to these now-dead characters. Why do we need a big Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Indigo, Violet, and Blue Revue?

What fun would the comic be if we didn't see the characters interacting with their dead loved ones? And if you've actually been paying attention to the story, the Black Lanterns have been harvesting that emotional energy (for some yet unknown reason), and it's that energy that is the only thing capable of fighting the Black Lanterns.

Because I really give a flying fuck about Dove.

Again, your missing the point. It's not about Dove, it's about why they can't raise him.

Dominic wrote:Furman had nothing to say with the "Beast Wars" comics.

He said more than you seem to realize.

"Blackest Night" is just inarticulate, loud and obnoxious.

Being a character driven story, I guess I shouldn't be surprised you have an inaccurate view of this story.

Sparky Prime wrote:And if you've actually been paying attention to the story, the Black Lanterns have been harvesting that emotional energy (for some yet unknown reason)

Read: Nobody knows why they're doing it--not even the writers.

Onslaught Six wrote:Read: Nobody knows why they're doing it--not even the writers.

Hardly. The writers have building up for it. Given the Black Lanterns just reached 100% in the last issue, I'd think we'll find out in the next issue what it's for.

Lol. I did think up Red Lanterns when I was eight. Because what would Sinestro's ring have as a weakness?! Please tell me that's how it works. Rage makes you unable to feel fear or something, right? And makes you puke up all your blood and replace it with pure hatred, which, I gotta say, that at least sounds like something that Dethklok would write, so that's pretty cool.

BWprowl wrote:
Scourge, why the hell are you not reading Doom Patrol?

Mainly because it came out when all this other stuff happening ate my comics budget. Got the first issue, and though I generally like the characters in the Doom Patrol, I really dug the Metal Men bit more. Of course, it's impossible to fuck up the Metal Men unless you're Dan Jurgens, amirite?

Anyway, please tell me that Black Lantern Cliff Steele's Body had a robot brain in it. You don't even know how happy it'd make me. Weird that they had to stretch that far, though. The Doom Patrol's got more dead members than any other superteam other than maybe Alpha Flight. Hell, Larry, Rita, and Niles were all dead last I heard. Any sign of Karma, Tempest, or Celsius? That's even without getting into the Vertigo-era guys who're all dead now.

Anyway, there seems to be a lot of...not hostility, because I like to think we're above that, but certainly negativity in this thread, which I feel runs counter to it's expressed purpose (i.e. comics being awesome). Therefore, to put everyone in a better frame of mind:


I know everyone's smiling now, right?