TF Views

AHM actually delivers on some of the tech specs better than any other story ever has.

Seriously. You need to read it, if only because so many at the Wiki hate, and deliberately misread, it.


Dom
-now go! READ!

Dominic wrote:Seriously. You need to read it, if only because so many at the Wiki hate, and deliberately misread, it.

No, AHM really is just full of discrepancies, they didn't misread it at all.

Sparky just hates AHM because he liked Furman's cruddy books. I didn't so AHM is good for me.

Yeah. Okay. There's some mild inconsistencies with Furman's stuff. You know what? I'm okay with that. Because I didn't like those books.

Are some bits of it (probably) minor potshots towards the first film? I'd say. Between

Spoiler

Starscream shooting down Air Force One vs. the film merely bringing it down

and

Spoiler

The Seekers being F-15s yet outmanuevering F-22s (which Moviescream is)

I'd be hard pressed to say bits of it aren't.

That thing with the Matrix? Yeah, it's not well defined. Yeah, it's vague. But here's the thing--it's the Matrix. Maybe in IDW, it hasn't been strictly defined--but it has everywhere else. It's like how you don't really need to define Kryptonite in a Superman book. It's Kryptonite. It hurts and can kill Superman. That's all you need to know. The Matrix is this big important thing, and Megatron wanted it.

But then there's

Spoiler

OcTankor being the one to drop the bomb

and

Spoiler

Dropshot being human military hardware

and

Spoiler

the Constructicons at the beginning

or

Spoiler

Astrotrain collapsing the subways

, a bunch of it does focus on the disguise elements. Plus, there's Megs and Starscream's bits! Megs 'defining' Peace Through Tyranny. And yeah, there's that misplaced Scourge reference, but honestly the editor should have caught that.

Dominic wrote:AHM actually delivers on some of the tech specs better than any other story ever has.

Spoiler

Thundercracker!

O6 is implying its greatest faults are inconsistency with other continuity. Being as I have no regard for the Wiki's opinions, and no interest in the rest of IDW's canon, is this really an issue? Would appreciate an answer from Sparky, who's being kinda vague on why AHM sucks so much. Basically, can it be enjoyed as a TF story on its own merits?

Sparky Prime wrote:

Dominic wrote:Seriously. You need to read it, if only because so many at the Wiki hate, and deliberately misread, it.

No, AHM really is just full of discrepancies, they didn't misread it at all.

Not as many as the Wiki makes out. Right after I first read AHM, I took their list on their main page and went through it, and about half the problems are easily explained away, if the reader isn't determined to take the worst possible view of the story and Shane McCarthy.

For example: the discarding of the six-stage infiltration protocol and the fact that none of Megatron's troops care when they did in Infiltration is bemoaned as a major discrepancy with Furman's work. When in reality, since the situation has changed and the Decepticons have essentially won the war by that point, Megatron is no longer bothered with stealth. Why slowly infiltrate the Earth's political systems and destabilize the planet when they can just conquer it by force? Particularly since Megatron needs to keep his troops busy. The context of the story provides the reason for the change in Decepticon methodology.

An example of a deliberate misreading of the story: To quote the wiki "Worse, the people of New York react to the Constructicons by thinking they're part of a movie being filmed, rather than going "Oh no, the Machination is back!" It's not the "people of New York", it's a few people on one street who may or may not have seen the news reports about the giant robots fighting. Which, by the way, never confirmed the status of those giant robots, so the assumption that it was just movie props doesn't seem all that unreasonable. Regardless, the wiki words it in such a way that it makes the entire city seem ignorant, when that's simply not the case.

Had the writers at the wiki bothered to be objective rather than just assuming the worst, they might have thought of that. And about half their examples are just as easily explained. A little honestly and a little reading comprehension skill would go a long way.

The biggest misreading is how they presented Drift fighting swarm critter and Cliffjumper's simultaneous reaction to Perceptor (clearly) blowing the critter's head off.

Basically, can it be enjoyed as a TF story on its own merits?

One better actually:

It can be read, regardless of being a TF story, on its own merits.

On the subject of disguises and tech specs:

Spoiler

We also get some great bits with Sunstreaker (portrayed as a sociopath in context) and Mirage (whose doubts are a real element of the story. We also get a new, but wholly consistent spin, on Ironhide and Prowl.

Spoiler

Right before Dropshot reveals himself, a soldier panics and asks where else TFs could be hiding and as what.

Dom
-and the ongoing is pretty damned good as well.

I totally get what Gomess is saying here. I feel the same that the original concept was the disguise. It's what attracted me to the franchise. I remember seeing cars on the road and imagining that they could be robots. It really lost some of the magic once the line started to get away from realistic alt modes. Much as I like Hot Rod, you're not going to see a car like that on the freeway. That said, I still enjoy stories that are not necessarily set on Earth. However, unlike Gomess, I like Star Trek and sci fi in general so I actually do enjoy seeing such things explored in TFs.

Sorry for the double post, but I'm at work and nature of the beast and whatnot. Anyway, I don't mind seeing things like religion and reproduction explored in TFs. I never really bought into the cell division thing, but hey, they gotta reproduce somehow. And I figure like any civilisation they would also have some sort of religion as well.

AHM is great for all the reasons listed. Most of the characters are or seem to be written based on their original tech specs which really lead to some great character development and exploration. AHM sets up the current ongoing which is largely set on Earth where the TFs are basically forced into hiding. Which means their alt modes play a big part in what they do. I sort of feel like we're finally getting the TF stories I wish I'd gotten as a kid.

Onslaught Six wrote:Sparky just hates AHM because he liked Furman's cruddy books. I didn't so AHM is good for me.

That's not why I hate AHM. I was actually looking forward to AHM when it started, but it was not the well thought out story as it should have been. Furman's stories were dreadfully paced (but then, so was AHM), and I did think they needed to change things up. However, his stories were better constructed and was clearly building towards something.

andershonh1 wrote:Not as many as the Wiki makes out. Right after I first read AHM, I took their list on their main page and went through it, and about half the problems are easily explained away, if the reader isn't determined to take the worst possible view of the story and Shane McCarthy.

It is as many as the wiki makes out, if not actually more. I don't see how you can say half of them are easily explained. Heck, IDW had to make the Coda issues just to help explain away some of its inconsistencies, which also added a few more inconsistencies.

For example: the discarding of the six-stage infiltration protocol and the fact that none of Megatron's troops care when they did in Infiltration is bemoaned as a major discrepancy with Furman's work. When in reality, since the situation has changed and the Decepticons have essentially won the war by that point, Megatron is no longer bothered with stealth. Why slowly infiltrate the Earth's political systems and destabilize the planet when they can just conquer it by force? Particularly since Megatron needs to keep his troops busy. The context of the story provides the reason for the change in Decepticon methodology.

Even with the Autobot's out of the picture, the Transformers are supposed to be in the middle of an energy crisis, living off of artificial derivatives since energon is (or was) supposed to be such a rarity in this universe. The whole point of the Infiltration protocol was to get the planets inhabitants to do most of the work, killing themselves, making it easier for the Decepticons to swoop in and conquer the planet. Saves them on the energy they'd have to use doing all the work themselves, with or without the Autobots interference. But McCarthy pretty much threw that all out the window.

An example of a deliberate misreading of the story: To quote the wiki "Worse, the people of New York react to the Constructicons by thinking they're part of a movie being filmed, rather than going "Oh no, the Machination is back!" It's not the "people of New York", it's a few people on one street who may or may not have seen the news reports about the giant robots fighting. Which, by the way, never confirmed the status of those giant robots, so the assumption that it was just movie props doesn't seem all that unreasonable. Regardless, the wiki words it in such a way that it makes the entire city seem ignorant, when that's simply not the case.

I think you're mis-representing what they're actually saying there rather than it being a mis-read on their part.... "People of New York" might be a general description but it's still an accurate way to describe the general audience of New Yorkers on the scene. And you're conveniently leaving out details they pointed out there. The whole point they're making with this is that the humans shouldn't be so in the dark about the existence of the Transformers. Public broadcasts would have gotten international attention. Military personnel had eye witness accounts. How is then that even the ranking military brass thought the robots were just a hoax?

And the whole movie prop thing is hard to swallow. If it was a movie where is the movie crew and all of their equipment? Forget that building a fully functioning vehicle that transforms into an autonomous robot being beyond human technology (with out the help of Transformers at least), not to mention the cost of building one would probably eat up the entire movie budget.

Had the writers at the wiki bothered to be objective rather than just assuming the worst, they might have thought of that. And about half their examples are just as easily explained. A little honestly and a little reading comprehension skill would go a long way.

Again, I'd say they got the criticisms right. It's McCarthy that should have been more comprehensive when he wrote the story in the first place.

Gomess wrote:O6 is implying its greatest faults are inconsistency with other continuity. Being as I have no regard for the Wiki's opinions, and no interest in the rest of IDW's canon, is this really an issue? Would appreciate an answer from Sparky, who's being kinda vague on why AHM sucks so much. Basically, can it be enjoyed as a TF story on its own merits?

In large part, yes, the problems mostly have to do with the continuity. Could it be enjoyed on its own merits? To a degree, perhaps, but I'd still say there were problems with the story.

Other post felt like it was getting bit long so decided to split things up a bit into two posts.

Onslaught Six wrote:Are some bits of it (probably) minor potshots towards the first film? I'd say. Between

Spoiler

Starscream shooting down Air Force One vs. the film merely bringing it down

and

Spoiler

The Seekers being F-15s yet outmanuevering F-22s (which Moviescream is)

I'd be hard pressed to say bits of it aren't.

I've never really thought of AHM as taking pot shots at the first film. The issue most people seem to have that you sort of touch on here though is the sudden and unexplained change

Spoiler

of the seekers downgrading from the F-22 body to a F-15, among some other characters with sudden design changes

. McCarthy had said that they would explain it, specifically referring to the seekers, but never did.

That thing with the Matrix? Yeah, it's not well defined. Yeah, it's vague. But here's the thing--it's the Matrix. Maybe in IDW, it hasn't been strictly defined--but it has everywhere else. It's like how you don't really need to define Kryptonite in a Superman book. It's Kryptonite. It hurts and can kill Superman. That's all you need to know. The Matrix is this big important thing, and Megatron wanted it.

The Matrix being vague and ill-defined isn't a problem, as it has always been vague and ill-defined. The problem is that the Matrix wasn't a factor in the story *at all* and then all of a sudden its being described as the *whole reason* for the war starting in the first place. This is a huge shift in the story that goes against what had been established. That requires some sort of explanation. Some "big important thing, and Megatron wanted it" doesn't cut it.

But then there's

Spoiler

OcTankor being the one to drop the bomb

and

Spoiler

Dropshot being human military hardware

and

Spoiler

the Constructicons at the beginning

or

Spoiler

Astrotrain collapsing the subways

, a bunch of it does focus on the disguise elements. Plus, there's Megs and Starscream's bits! Megs 'defining' Peace Through Tyranny. And yeah, there's that misplaced Scourge reference, but honestly the editor should have caught that.

Yes, AHM was a train wreck. Disguise elements hardly gets that much of a focus with only about 2 Decepticons actually using their alt modes for that purpose in the story. Many of the Decepticons actually lost their element of disguise by switching to outdated alt modes, such as Astrotrain. Now the thing with

Spoiler

OcTankor carrying the nuke

actually was interesting I'll admit, but we didn't see that plan unfold as Megatron intended which ruined the build up it had going for it.

Dominic wrote:The biggest misreading is how they presented Drift fighting swarm critter and Cliffjumper's simultaneous reaction to Perceptor (clearly) blowing the critter's head off.

I don't see what you're referring to here... How do they portray it differently from the comic?