TF Views

Sparky Prime wrote:

Shockwave wrote:Sparky, I have to disagree with you that BW being so isolated is a good thing. I really think we could have gotten some much better stories out of IDW if they'd just gone with a new continuity.

Getting back into that old argument are we?

As I've said often before, I believe "The Gathering" worked as a great set up for IDW to tell future BW stories. The problem with IDW's BW stories didn't come from what continuity it was set in, but that they just didn't execute that story very well. It brought in way too many characters and tried to tell way too much, way too fast. What would have made it better would probably simply have been to decompress and not use a Unicron related story so quickly (or at all).

I don't see that if they'd simply gone with a new continuity it would have nessisarily given us a better story at all. If anything, then it'd have more work to do in establishing and developing that new continuity, on top of (re)establishing characters and everything else, while the comic we got already was well established with its continuity/setting and even some of the characters.

No, didn't mean to start the argument again lol, but I do recall we've hashed it out enough to where we agreed that we disagreed about it.

Having said that, I do have agree with what you've said there about IDW introducing too many characters too quickly and using Unicron. Too many characters being introduced in bulk like that means that nobody gets any real or meaningful development which means they don't get used for anything other than "moar bots was there!" And then to try to put the faux epic Unicron bs on top of that was just too much. No character development means that any chance of telling a character driven story goes right out the window and story really suffered as a result. I wouldn't have minded IDW using the series as a general basis or jumping off point for establishing a new series, but I definately think it suffered for trying to shoehorn it into the same time and place as the series. And really it actually could have worked going back to that if they hadn't tried to keep the new characters from interacting from the ones that were in the show to begin with. I also agree with you that IDW could still tell some very interesting stories, but I do think they'd have to keep the cast smaller. Perhaps there could be a LSoTW type story featuring lioConvoy and his crew or something smaller scale like that?

Asperchu"? .

It was a slur. I am not proud of myself for using it. In all seriousness, I apologize.

Beast Wars/Machines, on the other hand, hasn't been seen since the less-than-stellar IDW comics several years ago, and a couple of middling Universe toys.

And, this kind of supports my point doesn't it?

Getting back into that old argument are we?

Like you are suprised?

It might have been possible to write something good that tied in with the old series. But, in order for it to be even passable, it would have to be written by somebody who is not years past their prime and coasting on their rapidly dwindling credibility within an isolated fandom or a fan who (despite being a hell of a nice guy) is too much of a fan. The resulting comics read like fanfic. (And, yes, I use fanfic as a dirty word, and will not apologize for it.)

Rebooting BW might have freed them from the burden of slavishly adhering to the old cartoon.

I think it would have hindered the comic if it didn't tie into the existing continuity. Keep in mind, Beast Wars was celebrating it's 15th Anniversary at the time "The Gathering" was released, and there had been no Beast Wars fiction in the public eye for several years by that point. Launching a new continuity at that time wouldn't have made sense and probably would have been a difficult sell to fans and general audiences alike.

Fair point. But, if that is the case, then IDW should have gone with better writers than a hack like Furman and a fan like Yee.

They had McCarthy and Mowry on their payroll at that point, right? They could have sprung for one of the show's writers. Hell, correct me if I am wrong, but they had Byrne on payroll at that point as well.


Dom
-gonna go edit that post.

Dominic wrote:

Sparky Prime wrote: Asperchu?

It was a slur. I am not proud of myself for using it. In all seriousness, I apologize.

Nono, Sparky doesn't understand the reference.

I'm not gonna explain it, for the same reason Dom isn't proud he said it.

But surely you can figure out it's a contraction of "Asperger's Syndrome" and "Pikachu".

BWprowl wrote:But why the hell did they feel the need to go back to prehistoric Earth?

Why is that the point you always go back to? The un-resolved stasis pod made for a good way to introduce new characters with a new conflict (even if the execution was handled poorly) while allowing for them to touch upon the original storyline at the same time. It's a little bit of everything.

Dominic wrote:

Beast Wars/Machines, on the other hand, hasn't been seen since the less-than-stellar IDW comics several years ago, and a couple of middling Universe toys.

And, this kind of supports my point doesn't it?

Just because no new Beast Wars stories have come out since then, that doesn't mean there isn't an interest for it. And actually several Beast Wars characters have recently appeared with the Animated continuity, which generated quite a bit of fanfare.

Rebooting BW might have freed them from the burden of slavishly adhering to the old cartoon.

See now, I wouldn't say the comic slavishly adhered to the cartoon as it was. Part of it may have taken place during the third season of the cartoon, but the comic characters were off doing their own thing the whole time.

Fair point. But, if that is the case, then IDW should have gone with better writers than a hack like Furman and a fan like Yee.

They had McCarthy and Mowry on their payroll at that point, right? They could have sprung for one of the show's writers. Hell, correct me if I am wrong, but they had Byrne on payroll at that point as well.

I wouldn't have minded another writer who could have handled the story better. But that wouldn't have been McCarthy.

Gomess wrote:But surely you can figure out it's a contraction of "Asperger's Syndrome" and "Pikachu".

Like I said, I did google it so I get that. I just don't see what it has anything to do with Beast Wars.

Sparky wrote:I just don't see what it has anything to do with Beast Wars.

It doesn't. But, technically, neither does any individual word from this entire thread, so you're being a bit- perhaps unintentionally- picky. =3 It's a slur against the socially challenged and insular; Dom may as well have said "retard", "idiot" or "hikikomori". He just happened to pick one that you hadn't heard before.

Sparky Prime wrote:Why is that the point you always go back to? The un-resolved stasis pod made for a good way to introduce new characters with a new conflict (even if the execution was handled poorly) while allowing for them to touch upon the original storyline at the same time. It's a little bit of everything.

It was too much of everything that held the story back, is what it was. Surely there were other Transformers in the universe besides the stasis pods on Earth, right? They could've just drop-introduced us to crews of Maximals and Predacons in media res, which would've had the added benefit of characters who already had set dynamics with each other that we would've been able to see in action, instead of a bunch of blank slates who barely talked to each other, which is what we got.

If you're contesting that it was the best way to get characters with beast modes, I call BS on that too. Organic alternate forms had already been established as a method of protection against Energon absorption, and I'd like to think that there are other planets besides Earth with Energon deposits (otherwise the concept flat-out wouldn't exist). I always liked the bit at the beginning of BW Neo where Big Convoy meets up with his new crew and they've all already picked out and taken on Beast Modes for themselves, knowing that they might interact with Energon somewhere on their trip.

The way the comic did it, it's like we were expected to think all the guys introduced in the comic were just as cool as the BW show cast we knew and loved just because they had the same origin story. Does Furman really think BW fans are so simple-minded that we can't handle more than one origin for Beast Mode Transformers?

Sparky Prime wrote:

BWprowl wrote:But why the hell did they feel the need to go back to prehistoric Earth?

Why is that the point you always go back to? The un-resolved stasis pod made for a good way to introduce new characters with a new conflict (even if the execution was handled poorly) while allowing for them to touch upon the original storyline at the same time. It's a little bit of everything.

Y'know this gives me an idea: Why couldn't they have just set it after Primal and crew left Earth? Magmatron could have activated all the remaining stasis pods and it still wouldn't have interferred with the original timeline of the show. In fact, it could have lead to Waspinator getting back to Cybertron which never really got explained.

Sparky Prime wrote:

Gomess wrote:But surely you can figure out it's a contraction of "Asperger's Syndrome" and "Pikachu".

Like I said, I did google it so I get that. I just don't see what it has anything to do with Beast Wars.

I didn't get it either, but I'm worse than Sparky since I was too lazy even to google it.

I think my main complaint with the BW comic is that I wanted to see new adventures with my favorite characters many of whom were show characters. At the end of the day, doing that without a new continuity would be next to impossible.

Gomess wrote:

Sparky wrote:I just don't see what it has anything to do with Beast Wars.

It doesn't.

That's sufficient, thanks.

BWprowl wrote:It was too much of everything that held the story back, is what it was.

Well yeah, I have said that already myself. But the comic's premise still had a lot of potential.

Surely there were other Transformers in the universe besides the stasis pods on Earth, right?

With a programmable loyalty to Magmatron? Yeah, not so much. Remember, it wasn't just an army Magmatron was after, but they needed to be loyal for his coup against the Tripredacus Council.

They could've just drop-introduced us to crews of Maximals and Predacons in media res, which would've had the added benefit of characters who already had set dynamics with each other that we would've been able to see in action, instead of a bunch of blank slates who barely talked to each other, which is what we got.

Or they could have kept just the comic's cast small, slowly introducing the new characters over time as they arrived from all over the globe, much like the show itself did.

Shockwave wrote:Y'know this gives me an idea: Why couldn't they have just set it after Primal and crew left Earth?

Interestingly enough... Dreamwave's version they'd been planning before the bankruptcy was going to take place after Primal and crew left. No idea why it got changed when the story was adapted for IDW.

Maybe because Furman is a lazy hack? Maybe because the fanbase would have lost their collective minds if there was not at least an obligatory, and forced, appearance by the show characters?

I voted for the RiD comic. But, I could almost get behind Optimus Minor showing up and telling Rattrap that he did not see nuthin'. The hook for the series could be Magmatron trying to recruit already activated Cybertronians. (And, really, why would any Maximals have a problem with going after the Tripredacus Council, especially if Magmatron spun a convincing lie?) In the end, some of the guys might decide they wanted to be Predacons.

Badda bing.

Dom
-would also have been happy to assume the other guys in the pods just died off screen or something.

There you go with the lazy thing again. I'll give you hack, but he's a hard working hack!