TF Views

I can accept Dinobot being in the HoF. BW did save the franchise. (If not for BW being viable, "Transformers" would be having many of the same problems that "GI Joe" has now.)

There are multiple iterations of G1. Some good, some....not so good. But, for the most part, every story does not have to come back to the original comic or cartoon. But, BW stories all have to tie in to a middling, (by any objective measure), cartoon from 10+ years ago. New stories are shoe-horned in and written around obligatory appearances of the main characters that people never got the hell over.

I'd say that qualifies him for the Hall of Fame as much as Jazz, who (let's face it Dom) you mainly want in there because he was the star of your favorite couple issues of the comic book.

Not quite. You know how much I like Sunstreaker, right? But, I have not tried to put Sunstreaker over. Jazz is a consistently presented character that has been around since day 1 and has a number of significant appearances, including some well written comics such as "Man of Iron". The character is distinctive and recognizable, even by casual fans, across several iterations.

There are fans who have trouble accepting Optimus Primal as distinctive from Optimus Prime.


Dom
-"because they look the same and are named Optimus!!111!!"

Gomess wrote:Wait... the Hall of Fame ISN'T a popularity contest?

Well many of Hasbro's automatic ins so far I'd say have been pretty obligatory entries either way.

Dominic wrote:But, BW is pretty much, (forgive the term), "Transformers: Asperchu Fodder". There are multiple iterations of G1. Some good, some....not so good. But, for the most part, every story does not have to come back to the original comic or cartoon. But, BW stories all have to tie in to a middling, (by any objective measure), cartoon from 10+ years ago. New stories are shoe-horned in and written around obligatory appearances of the main characters that people never got the hell over.

"Asperchu"? You're going to have to explain what you mean by that Dom because the only thing google gives me is a Sonic/Pickachu hybrid thing and I don't see how that's relevant to anything.
And it really sounds to me like you're skewing things here, trying to make some small complaints you personally have with Beast Wars bigger than they really are. Beast Wars is relatively self contained and has a well established place in continuity that no one has really tried to break away from. So what? That's not a bad thing Dom, it's again, a testament to the quality and staying power, not to mention the popularity Beast Wars has.

What Sparky said. They admit athletes and musicians into their respective Hall of Fames even if they may not be relevant today because of the contributions they made in their own time. Important, relevant characters from past TF generations shouldn't be penalized and ignored just because the TF Hall of Fame was unfair enough to not exist when their series were around.

BWprowl wrote:Important, relevant characters from past TF generations shouldn't be penalized and ignored just because the TF Hall of Fame was unfair enough to not exist when their series were around.

Dude, that is the weirdest thing you've said. The HOF wasn't around for any of G1 originally either. In fact, you could say that for every series except Prime because this is only the second year of HOF.

Sparky, I have to disagree with you that BW being so isolated is a good thing. I really think we could have gotten some much better stories out of IDW if they'd just gone with a new continuity.

Shockwave wrote:

BWprowl wrote:Important, relevant characters from past TF generations shouldn't be penalized and ignored just because the TF Hall of Fame was unfair enough to not exist when their series were around.

Dude, that is the weirdest thing you've said. The HOF wasn't around for any of G1 originally either. In fact, you could say that for every series except Prime because this is only the second year of HOF.

Well yeah, but G1 is still around. G1 guys are still getting new toys, and the current G1 comic's been going strong(ish...) for several years now. G1 still very much has a presence in Transformers. Beast Wars/Machines, on the other hand, hasn't been seen since the less-than-stellar IDW comics several years ago, and a couple of middling Universe toys.

Shockwave wrote:Sparky, I have to disagree with you that BW being so isolated is a good thing. I really think we could have gotten some much better stories out of IDW if they'd just gone with a new continuity.

Getting back into that old argument are we?

As I've said often before, I believe "The Gathering" worked as a great set up for IDW to tell future BW stories. The problem with IDW's BW stories didn't come from what continuity it was set in, but that they just didn't execute that story very well. It brought in way too many characters and tried to tell way too much, way too fast. What would have made it better would probably simply have been to decompress and not use a Unicron related story so quickly (or at all).

I don't see that if they'd simply gone with a new continuity it would have nessisarily given us a better story at all. If anything, then it'd have more work to do in establishing and developing that new continuity, on top of (re)establishing characters and everything else, while the comic we got already was well established with its continuity/setting and even some of the characters.

Sparky Prime wrote:I don't see that if they'd simply gone with a new continuity it would have nessisarily given us a better story at all. If anything, then it'd have more work to do in establishing and developing that new continuity, on top of (re)establishing characters and everything else, while the comic we got already was well established with its continuity/setting and even some of the characters.

However, and this is the whole core of the argument, a lot of us feel like being tied to the existing continuity hindered the stories that could have been told rather than helped them.

The BW comics were a nostalgia cash-in. If anyone actually had anything interesting left to say about that (existing) universe, the BW comics would still be running.

Here's my thing: There is *so much potential* for a stand-alone series where Transformers turn into animals rather than cars and trucks, and *nobody* seems to see it because of one cartoon that existed fifteen years ago. G1 gets reinvented, multiple times--the core concept is twisted, added to, and revised, repeatedly. But God forbid if they turn into furry creatures again, suddenly it has to be tied in to this ONE single iteration of the franchise. It's not *fair.* It's almost like how in the 90s, DC said that only Kyle Rayner could be the Green Lantern. If anyone wanted to tell a story that would actually service Hal Jordan, or John Stewart, or Guy Gardner, guess what? Couldn't do it, because of the ties to continuity.

I'm all for continuity--hell, I'm one of the biggest proponents of RID being part of the G1/BW universe. But not when it hinders the story that can be told, which I feel the Gathering did.

Because you can't do a story where all the non-show Transmetal 2 guys are space pirates if the rest of the cast is stuck on prehistoric Earth.

(Man that was such a cool idea. We called them the Retcons! They had a song and everything.)

Onslaught Six wrote:However, and this is the whole core of the argument, a lot of us feel like being tied to the existing continuity hindered the stories that could have been told rather than helped them.

I think it would have hindered the comic if it didn't tie into the existing continuity. Keep in mind, Beast Wars was celebrating it's 15th Anniversary at the time "The Gathering" was released, and there had been no Beast Wars fiction in the public eye for several years by that point. Launching a new continuity at that time wouldn't have made sense and probably would have been a difficult sell to fans and general audiences alike.

Here's my thing: There is *so much potential* for a stand-alone series where Transformers turn into animals rather than cars and trucks, and *nobody* seems to see it because of one cartoon that existed fifteen years ago.

I agree, there is potential for other Beast Wars type stories for other continuity settings. But the Beast Wars cartoon was undeniably a huge success and it's hard break away from a winning story.

Shockwave wrote: Sparky, I have to disagree with you that BW being so isolated is a good thing. I really think we could have gotten some much better stories out of IDW if they'd just gone with a new continuity.

Or gave a damn. I was finally able to unload all my IDW Beast Wars comics at a garage sale a couple weeks ago. Good riddance to those wastes of ink and paper!

So anyway, sometimes I think you guys take this Hall of Fame business way too seriously. I think it's cool that Dinobot and Waspy got in to represent the beast-era, but aside from a few moments of "Woo hoo!"-ness, it does nothing to affect me throughout the rest of the year. Oh, we might, MIGHT get some new toys out of it? So what? We already got a TFU version of Dinobot and a TFA version of Waspy. They already got new toys even before the vote.

On the comics again- I totally agree with what's being said here. Tons of untapped potential for Beast-era stories that take don't tie in with the BW cartoon. I have long been kicking around a fanfic idea that takes place way off in Earth's future (300+ years or so from now to match the BW timeline). All the major cities of Earth are rubble due to the Cybertronian war, so when the Maxis and Preds inevitably return, all the vehicles that they'd normally disguise themselves as have all been rusted out and forgotten centuries ago. The only available option is to use beast modes. Done. There you go. So easy and without tying into the BW cartoon or any specific G1 continuity. A nice, standalone little continuity. Of course, coming up with something ELSE would've required IDW to treat the BW comic as anything more than a cash-grab. Seriously, why else were the BW cartoon characters all over the covers, when they weren't even featured in the comics? Cash grab.

Sparky Prime wrote:I agree, there is potential for other Beast Wars type stories for other continuity settings. But the Beast Wars cartoon was undeniably a huge success and it's hard break away from a winning story.

Sure it is. You just man up like a mature writer and write your own damn story instead of piggybacking on the one/only successful Beast Transformers story. I mean, I'm a *huge* fan of the BW cartoon, but I won't deny that the reason it worked so well is that it was allowed to be different. That it seems to now be placing restrictions on what *other* stories about its toys can do is sadly ironic.

You know what? I don't even care that 'The Gathering' felt like it had to be set in the same continuity as BW. Whatever, it'd actually been a while since we saw the original G1 timeline anyway. But why the hell did they feel the need to go back to prehistoric Earth? I mean, Galvatron's been going on a rip-roaring tour of the universe in 'Heart of Darkness'. Why can't a group of BW toys do that at some point?