All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

[Dominic]

I really don't see that the situations are similar at all given the different dynamics between the two factions... Starscream is looking for a way to become the absolute leader of the Decepticons, effectively to replace Megatron. The Autobots were merely trying to hold things together as they focused all their efforts on Optimus Prime's recovery.

Starscream is arguably trying to hold thing together. And, in fairness to him, he is (thus far) making a better showing of that than the brain-trust that was Prowl and Jazz.

Again, that's the whole point of the Matrix, to choose the new leader after the past leader is gone.

That is part of the Matrix's use, but not all of it.

And you can tell from the last panel of the story Starscream knows what he has gotten himself into here. He knows how it'll ultimately come down.

There is a difference between being under stress, as Starscream is, and having certainty of disaster. Still, not a good place to be though.

That's not necessarily true at all. Anything in the media is capable of swaying opinions.

I have seen plenty of people ignore media messages in favor of a cherished belief though. Yes, repeating the word "victory" can sell some people on the idea that "we are winning!". But, if somebody is determined to hold onto the idea that things are going badly, dogmatic repetition of the word "victory" is not going to sway them.

How about not get into the whole mess in the first place? Save face and don't risk your job.

Well duh. Yeah, that might have been a good idea. Actually, you know what? It is a good idea. But, clearly, some public officials would disagree with us on this.

And, if you do found yourself in that situation, or were hired to help somebody get out of that kind of trouble, what would you do or advise them to do? a) Give up the job, and still have your rep trashed? b) Try to keep the job, trashed rep and all?


Dom
-cover ups are often just as much fun as the events that precipitate them.

[Sparky Prime]

Starscream is arguably trying to hold thing together. And, in fairness to him, he is (thus far) making a better showing of that than the brain-trust that was Prowl and Jazz.

Hold things together, as long as he's the one who is on top. And the Autobots situation was a lot worst given they weren't just down a leader, but they were trapped on Cybertron, lead to believe all their forces across the universe were being wiped out and had a traitor among them. The Decepticons only issue is that Megatron is out of commission. So of coarse the Autobots had the more difficult circumstances.

That is part of the Matrix's use, but not all of it.

The rest of it only matters to the one it actually chose as leader.

There is a difference between being under stress, as Starscream is, and having certainty of disaster. Still, not a good place to be though.

What do you think is causing that stress? If he was confident this plan wouldn't eventually fail him, would he really have the much to worry about? No. He knows.

I have seen plenty of people ignore media messages in favor of a cherished belief though.

True enough, but doesn't mean the media isn't also mighty powerful at swaying opinions as well.

And, if you do found yourself in that situation, or were hired to help somebody get out of that kind of trouble, what would you do or advise them to do? a) Give up the job, and still have your rep trashed? b) Try to keep the job, trashed rep and all?

Well I wouldn't advise them to lie and try and cover the whole thing up. That only makes matters worst. Better to wise up, admit the wrong doing and accept the punishment, whatever that might be.

[Dominic]

Hold things together, as long as he's the one who is on top. And the Autobots situation was a lot worst given they weren't just down a leader, but they were trapped on Cybertron, lead to believe all their forces across the universe were being wiped out and had a traitor among them. The Decepticons only issue is that Megatron is out of commission. So of coarse the Autobots had the more difficult circumstances.

The problem Starscream has is that he needs to keep his troops happy. The Autobots had less precedent for the kind of difficulty they were facting, internally and externally. But, there is plenty of precedent for mischief in the Decpeticon ranks. And, the material wealth they are enjoying would make stakes higher for Starscream, as he has more to lose, and there is more to notice if he carks it up.

The smartest thing for Starscream to do would be to tell the other Decepticons, including would-be leaders, that the Autobots and humans are a threat. He might even want to buck them up a bit, just to make them more credible. Yes, it would mean more lies, but hey....he is already in for a penny or two, why not a pount?

Well I wouldn't advise them to lie and try and cover the whole thing up. That only makes matters worst. Better to wise up, admit the wrong doing and accept the punishment, whatever that might be.

Why? Your way means certain punishment. Trying to cover the thing up, (because avoiding it is not an option after the fact), at least means there is a *chance* of getting away with it. (Again, I am not defending the act, just arguing about the best way to handle it later.)


Dom
-wants issue 14.

[Shockwave]

I still say that the Matrix hasn't seen enough characterization in AHM to know for sure that Starscream COULDN'T use the Matrix, it may yet turn out that he can. And that also means that it may be more than just a device that chooses leadership, it may very well have other powers beyond "I name [insert bot name here] as leader of the Autobots". There have certainly been other versions of the Matrix that have been more than that and to assume that's it's only function with so little to go on is silly. I mean look at G2, Starscream was very much able to use the Matrix, in G1 Thunderwing used it, I could go on, but those set a precedent especially considering that those examples were both in comics as well. As for Starscream lying, well they don't call them DECEPTicons for nothing and in fact, the whole faction is comprised of a heirarchy in which the one who's best at lying is the one with the most power. This isn't an ill-conceived plan, this is Starscream being a proper Decepticon like he should be and working within the system that he knows.

[Sparky Prime]

The problem Starscream has is that he needs to keep his troops happy. The Autobots had less precedent for the kind of difficulty they were facting, internally and externally. But, there is plenty of precedent for mischief in the Decpeticon ranks. And, the material wealth they are enjoying would make stakes higher for Starscream, as he has more to lose, and there is more to notice if he carks it up.

The smartest thing for Starscream to do would be to tell the other Decepticons, including would-be leaders, that the Autobots and humans are a threat. He might even want to buck them up a bit, just to make them more credible. Yes, it would mean more lies, but hey....he is already in for a penny or two, why not a pount?

We know the Autobots and Decepticons are spread out across the universe, on multiple planets/space stations and on multiple fronts. I don't think it'd take much for Starscream to find something to keep them occupied. Earth isn't even a major contender. The only thing important about it is the 'ultra energon' but again, that wasn't even a factor in AHM.

Why? Your way means certain punishment. Trying to cover the thing up, (because avoiding it is not an option after the fact), at least means there is a *chance* of getting away with it. (Again, I am not defending the act, just arguing about the best way to handle it later.)

A chance doesn't make it a good chance. He was still caught in his lies after all. But the point is, perhaps the punishment wouldn't have been as sever if he hadn't tried to cover it up. Impeachment is a pretty serious thing after all, even if he wasn't convicted. Maybe if he'd just admitted it rather than trying to cover it all up, they might have avoided that. Hard to say.

I still say that the Matrix hasn't seen enough characterization in AHM to know for sure that Starscream COULDN'T use the Matrix, it may yet turn out that he can.

I really doubt it given how much focus they put on the Matrix choosing the leader, being Optimus. It doesn't really matter what they've done with the Matrix in any previous generations, IDW is its own separate story allowing for them to take the story in new directions.

[Dominic]

It is not just a question of finding the Decepticons busy work. Even if it is necessary and practical, it has to keep them interested. We saw this in AHM. Megatron tried to sell Hook on the value of what the Constructicons were working on in issue 4(?), but Hook was not really interested. He wanted, almost needed, something better.

Think of jobs you have had. Putting aside pay, you probably enjoyed the work you really thought was important more than the unimportant work. Starscream needs to give the Decepticons high job satisfaction.


As for Clinton, he likely would have gotten railed either way. And, can you really blame the guy for trying to dodge the bullet? (And, no fair saying, "I would have dodged it by avoiding the stupid thing that got him in trouble in the first place", because that is too obvious.) As an aside, in a class I took a few years ago, we did an exercise similar to this topic. Tthe assumption was that nobody in their right mind, (who had committed an act worth covering up in the first place), would use the "be honest" option, and it was not allowed as a solution.


Dom
-thinks Starscream could have avoided trouble by not taking the job, but what fun is that?

[Sparky Prime]

It is not just a question of finding the Decepticons busy work. Even if it is necessary and practical, it has to keep them interested. We saw this in AHM. Megatron tried to sell Hook on the value of what the Constructicons were working on in issue 4(?), but Hook was not really interested. He wanted, almost needed, something better.

Hooks complaints was that he doesn't like the quality of materials Earth has to offer and building something among the "eyesores" of our own buildings, not the value of the work itself. So really, they didn't mind the busy work, it was what they had to work with and location they had an issue with.

As for Clinton, he likely would have gotten railed either way. And, can you really blame the guy for trying to dodge the bullet?

That's my point. He was already going to face consequences for his actions. Really by trying to dodge the bullet, he only made things worst for himself.

-thinks Starscream could have avoided trouble by not taking the job, but what fun is that?

Starscream wants the job, it's how he got the job in the first place that's flawed and will result in him loosing it once things get found out.

[Shockwave]

It doesn't really matter what they've done with the Matrix in any previous generations, IDW is its own separate story allowing for them to take the story in new directions.

Exactly. My point is that we have no idea what that direction is going to take and I think it's just presumptuous to assume you know what direction that's going to take. Simple fact, we don't (unless you're really the writer of AHM, but I'm not getting that vibe). My point with citing previous series is that over the years, it's powers have been so varied and diverse that we can't really know for sure what they're going to do with it. And there's certainly precedent for them to do just about anything and have steeped in Transformers lore. I'm really just looking for you to admit that you could turn out to be wrong. You might not, but you could. Optimus Prime could steal the Matrix back before Starscream's lie is discovered. Megatron could revive and take back command before Starscream's lie is discovered. Hell for all we know, they could go another direction with it and have it actually do something to Starscream, like overwrite his programming. All of this stuff could happen. It might not and you could turn out to be right, but I'm just looking for you to acknowledge the possibilities.

[Sparky Prime]

I'm not saying I know exactly what direction they're going to take, I'm saying Starscream's lie will eventually catch up to him. You don't need to be one of the writers to see this. Heck, the last panel even shows us that Starscream knows that eventually he'll pay the consequences for this lie. Not to mention the background information we've gotten on the Matrix so far and how characters have reacted. Optimus wasn't concerned about the Matrix at all while Megatron was gloating about it. Kup knows enough about the background of the Matrix to know they shouldn't waste time worrying about it and focus their efforts on Optimus instead. Starscream knows Megatron wasn't able to unlock any of its secrets in all the time he had it. Similarly, Starscream indicates he has had no luck with it. I mean really, I don't see that the writers could be any more clear on the direction they're taking the story behind the Matrix with out saying "Look, this is exactly the deal with the Matrix..."

[Shockwave]

I didn't get that they had defined it that much. Clearly I need to go back and read the rest of it again. I will say that Starscream being caught as a liar among the Decepticons isn't enough unto itself to be his undoing, after all, they've all lied about something, they're Decepticons.