TF Views

Actually most of the originaly trilogy actors were unknowns at the time. Alec Guiness was about the biggest name they had and it wasn't until after the success of the first movie that everyone knew who the rest were. I don't really mind the story for the prequels if taken unto themselves as a separate continuity. The problem is that Lucas says they're part of the same continuity with the other movies. Lucas you can say that all you want but your "story" just doesn't add up. The Expanded Universe crap is all approved by Lucas. Seriously, nothing gets official Star Wars branding without his say so. And when most of it was written it was considered canon as stated from the man himself. Then he did the prequels and declared that suddenly none of the EU stuff was canon. If anyone's a hack, it's George Lucas.

Shockwave
-Lucas has officially said that he's phoning it in.

Dominic wrote:

Yoda vs. Dracula

The complaints about Yoda fighting are some of the most obviously transparent "they changed it from what I remember" complaints about the prequels. (The fight between Yoda and Sidious in the senate chambers is probably the the most important in the prequels.)

I'm going to agree with this. Frankly, there's no point in Yoda being this supposedly-badass superwarrior in the past if we 'never' see him be badass.

FAKE EDIT: And now I see that G's complaint isn't that Yoda actually did something for once, but rather that he used a lightsaber. I almost have to agree with this on principle: One of the things I hated about the prequels was that everyone and their brother had a friggin' lightsaber. I mean, I know, I get it, they're 'all Jedi,' (Jedis?) but part of me seriously thinks it makes the lightsabers more meaningful if sixty guys aren't onscreen waving them around. (This thinking is likely why the Stormtroopers no longer have lightsabers.)

Shockwave wrote:Actually most of the originaly trilogy actors were unknowns at the time. Alec Guiness was about the biggest name they had and it wasn't until after the success of the first movie that everyone knew who the rest were. I don't really mind the story for the prequels if taken unto themselves as a separate continuity. The problem is that Lucas says they're part of the same continuity with the other movies. Lucas you can say that all you want but your "story" just doesn't add up. The Expanded Universe crap is all approved by Lucas. Seriously, nothing gets official Star Wars branding without his say so. And when most of it was written it was considered canon as stated from the man himself. Then he did the prequels and declared that suddenly none of the EU stuff was canon. If anyone's a hack, it's George Lucas.

Shockwave
-Lucas has officially said that he's phoning it in.

Yeah, the whole Chewbacca thing, and the droids getting their memories wiped...ugh.

If you've everrrrr seen a medieval / fantastical martial arts flick from between the 50s and early 70s (which Lucas has admitted to be a huge source of inspiration for the original movies, at least), you know Yoda shouldn't use a lightsaber. Lightsabers are training toys once you reach his level of Jedi-ness. He's meant to be an ascended master, a wizened little dwarf who's taken his martial art to an ascetic level that means he doesn't even need muscles or hair anymore. Classic, entertaining cliche... completely undermined. I know, he uses SOME telekinesis or whatever in the Dooku fight, but seeing him do all that flippy ninja stuff... bleh. Silly. And nobody tell me they were consciously trying to surprise the audience by purposefully going against the cliche! =/

Wait, so Lucas has to keep to the same style for over 20+ years?

He started SW as a tribute to the old shit-shorts. Then, he expanded beyond that.


Lucas owns "Star Wars", and thus it is his right to change the rules every so often. The last I heard, the comics and novels of the 80s and 90s were out of canon. They may have been in-canon at one point. But, Lucas said they are out of canon now, even if he (through hired proxies) approves them.

That said, the 6 movies are about Anakin/Vader. But, that does not mean he needs to be wearing the armour for all, or even most, of the prequels.

For the most part whenever I buy a new mold TF toy. I seperate the fiction from the toy. I buy the toy solely based off my desired design/sculpt & toy engineering preferences.

I try to do that. And, there are plenty of toys that I like regardless of context. (Witness my enthusiasm for the "Power Core Combiner" line.) But, I would much rather have a good toy based on a solid character or a well written story than a good toy on its own.


Dom
-saw pictures of the toy this thread is about. Ugh....

Swing and a miss Dom. This isn't about Lucas keeping the same style or about some SW version of being Geewunny. I don't care if Vader wears the armor/mask throughout the prequels, I only require that Lucas keep his story straight. He didn't. That's my bitch.

Shockwave
-That may have sounded harsher than intende.

That is a theme for this thread.

Objectively, I cannot recall anything in the prequels that explicitly contradicts the originals. However, a few points do stretch credulity. (And, again, Lucas edited the EU out by fiat, as is his right.)


Dom
-better editing by fiat that endless retcons.

BWprowl wrote: See, the reason that analogy doesn't work for me is because I never thought of Darth Vader as the "star" of Star Wars. It's an ensemble piece, mostly.

It's not perfect, but I thought it got across what I was getting at. Also, since the ads for the movie and such promoted "Darth Vader's origin!", it seemed like they were pushing him as the big deal of the movies.

And the movies are the origin of Vader. Why does he have to put on the suit early on? Not everything is a bad silver age comic where the origin is told in 20 pages or less.

Dom
-just because it ain't your Vader....

In Jedi, Leia says that her mother died when she was very young, not AT CHILDBIRTH!! There are other little minor inconsistincies, like Obi Wan saying that Yoda was his master and then we get... friggin Liam Neeson. And I'm not too in love with the fact that Boba Fett is basically just another Stormtrooper now. Most the inconsistencies I could live with, but not the leia/Padme dies at birth one. Epic fail Lucas.

Yeah, Lucas can say what is and is not canon, I was just pointing out that he has changed that over time.

Dominic wrote:And the movies are the origin of Vader. Why does he have to put on the suit early on? Not everything is a bad silver age comic where the origin is told in 20 pages or less.

Dom
-just because it ain't your Vader....

That's essentially what we got though. Less than 20 pages actually. I would have preferred that he not even put the suit on all at once, but gradually over time as was IMPLIED IN THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY!!! Ugh, talking about the discrepancies really makes me hate the prequels.

Shockwave wrote:Obi Wan saying that Yoda was his master and then we get... friggin Liam Neeson.

To be fair, Yoda was above Neeson in rank and very well could have given Obi-Wan further training between Episodes 1 and 2. Yoda was only Luke's master for like a half hour before he went off to get his hand hacked off, but you could still say he was Luke's master (at some point).

Also, you have to account for a lot of BSing in those early films. Remember that, at the time Empire was written and filmed, Lucas was still planning on doing nine films total, and the third trilogy (episodes VII-IX) would be about Luke taking down Palpatine, and he hadn't even fully figured out some elements of the story yet. (Obviously Leia and Luke weren't intended to be siblings when she made out with him.) Darth Vader was not always Luke's father, y'know.

That's an interesting point, incidentally. When you show the Star Wars films to your children (Let's assume we're all going to have children at some point, even if some of us have no plans to), how do you introduce them? Do you show them the prequels first, or the original trilogy? Because, you know, if you show them the prequels, then the big reveal in Empire's just going to be, like, "Yeah, we know. That isn't a surprise."

And I'm not too in love with the fact that Boba Fett is basically just another Stormtrooper now.

This brings up a thing I'm most disappointed with. When Leia and Obi-Wan mention "The Clone Wars" in ANH, it sounds like it's some awesome epic thing. Turns out it was kind of sucky and not at all what everybody thought a Clone War would be. (I was thinking, like, Obi-Wan would fight ten evil versions of himself. Awesome.)

Yeah, Lucas can say what is and is not canon, I was just pointing out that he has changed that over time.

Dominic wrote:And the movies are the origin of Vader. Why does he have to put on the suit early on? Not everything is a bad silver age comic where the origin is told in 20 pages or less.

Dom
-just because it ain't your Vader....

That's essentially what we got though. Less than 20 pages actually. I would have preferred that he not even put the suit on all at once, but gradually over time as was IMPLIED IN THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY!!! Ugh, talking about the discrepancies really makes me hate the prequels.

Going by some action figure releases, I think it's implied (or outright stated, I've only seen RotS a few times) that Anakin becomes "Darth Vader" long before he puts on the suit--I think before he even murders those children.

EDIT: Oh hey there's this:

ShockTrek wrote:In Jedi, Leia says that her mother died when she was very young, not AT CHILDBIRTH!!

Wookiepedia wrote:The theory that Breha died before the destruction of Alderaan is supported by Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi, when Leia states that she was "very young", as opposed to an infant or newborn, when her mother died. If Leia did not know she was adopted, then Breha would be the 'mother' she refers to.

This! I mean, at the point Luke asks what Leia remembers of her mother, he's fishing for information about her himself--because he knows they're twins, right? And she's doesn't yet? I think? I need to rewatch these movies.