Is Transformers an emotionally-stunted franchise?

[andersonh1]

Yeah, I think "shipping" refers to putting two characters together in a relationship.

[BWprowl]

He described it as when fans "ship" to characters together. I asked "like that time you sent me Cliffjumper with that PCC Guy?" "No, like for romantic purposes." "Oh". Or something along those lines. He basically described shipping as when fans romantically link their two favorite characters together and then use that for slashfic or some crappy deviantart page.

That’s kind of it, but gets a bit too specific into how it’s expressed. Kinda like Anderson said, ‘shipping’ is just watching/reading/playing/whatevering a story and feeling like you’d want to see two particular characters in a relationship. Say I’m reading Peanuts, and there’s that bit in there where Peppermint Patty is trying to console Charlie Brown over his striking out with the Little Red Haired Girl, and I find myself going “Man, Patty really gets Chuck. Those two should totally go out with each other.” I am ‘shipping’ Charlie Brown/Peppermint Patty. I may not necessarily be writing fanfiction or posting art to my DA profile, but my desire to see that ‘ship’ play out is still there, and watching it hinted at or developed further may even be an element that keeps me following the series. Even if characters do get together ‘officially’ in a series, you can keep ‘shipping’ them as long as the desire to see them together persists (people shipped Konoka/Setsuna in Negima for years before Akamatsu finally got them together officially, and even after that they still had loyal fans wanting to see how their relationship progressed and evolved). The point is, all ‘shipping’ is is a desire you have while taking in a piece of entertainment to see a couple of characters turn out a certain way, the same way you might have a desire to see one guy win a fight with another guy, or a character who’s evil turn to the side of good.

It’s a point though, that this it’s just something the audience feels. The writer of a particular piece having two characters enter into a relationship in their story isn’t ‘shipping’, because it’s their story, that relationship is a component of what they’re trying to tell. Roberts couldn’t ‘pander’ to Chromedome/Rewind shippers with what he wrote, because there were no Chromedome/Rewind shippers until he started putting out this story where Chromedome and Rewind were close! How could Roberts ‘pander’ to fans of a particular relationship when that particular relationship didn’t even exist until he wrote it?

[Gomess]

Back in the 90s, there was a television show called "Friends"

Yes I may have heard of it 8|

One of the jokes about the fans of that show was that "Friends" the show was for the people who did not have many actual friends. "That sort of fan" is not the fan that should be getting encouraged with content that panders and rewards them.

Not following this. Are you implying that (a) this joke was 90% accurate and (b) people with no friends aren't worth writing for...? I'm genuinely confused.

There were children's books that I could not stand as a kid. The simplistic writing style and content make it hard to find much to chew over.

Then you just read the wrong books as a kid, I guess. And possibly confuse "simple" for "simplistic".

In other words, if you are going to say that "gay space robots" is meeting a vital need, I could argue that there are even more vital needs not being met.

Such as? Serious.

Hey, if somebody wants to track down Roberts and ask him, be my guest.

Would it really help? =p

And, even if it was not, the fact that it arguably rewards "those fans" arguably should have given Roberts pause.

Nnnnnnnnguess not

I love to imagine an author for a TF comic sat there, writing a story because they want to, not to pander to anyone, and then SUDDENLY in their MIND

oh sh*t

am I

potentially giving a specific group of my fans a sense of community and entitlement????

well, that'll just about bring them inline with the rest of the fandom

*continues to write*

[Gomess]

Roberts couldn’t ‘pander’ to Chromedome/Rewind shippers with what he wrote, because there were no Chromedome/Rewind shippers until he started putting out this story where Chromedome and Rewind were close! How could Roberts ‘pander’ to fans of a particular relationship when that particular relationship didn’t even exist until he wrote it?

It's not the specific relationship which bothers Dom. The group to which he believes Roberts is pandering is... fans who want to see TFs of the same gender expressing their feelings for one another? And then, like, I dunno, draw rude pictures on Tumblr?

I'm really not accusing Dom of homophobia. But I can really see no other difference between Chromewind (Redome?) and... Blackbolt? Silverachnia? than gender. At best, BW's resident "OTP" was an awkward, clichéd attempt to give depth to its strongest female character. At worst, it was the late 90s equivalent of exactly what Dom's imagining.

(And please no one tell me there were no obsessive shippers (or whoever it is Dom hates, I'm STILL not clear on that!) at the time of BW)

[Shockwave]

There were, but the internet wasn't as previlant or vocal back then so it was less of a thing.

[Tigermegatron]

Yes, yes it is.

Oh, sorry, you wanted an explanation?

Dom and I were just talking about Rewind from MTMTE, he's bothered by the 'shipping going on between the character and Chromedome, he feels that the fact that they're a sexless gay couple is going too far. I countered that the meta stuff about 'shippers shouldn't matter, if it feels emotionally authentic or even just reasonable then the meta stuff is immaterial and the content should be able to stand on its own. But the thing of it is that a lot of TFans see any emotional closeness in the brand as a negative, as caving to slash fanfic needs... unless it's Arcee or Elita-One because, hey, they're gurls! .

Wow if this is what's going in the IDW TF G-1 comics,Then i'm glad I stopped buying everything after December 2011 came to a end.

I fully disagree though, Transformers are an asexual species but they are still emotional beings, when they're not on the battlefield they are still presented as having personal feelings and interests. The idea that Transformers should not crave emotional closeness with others seems like an unhealthy attitude, everybody craves emotional closeness - whether or not it's sexual. Transformers as a franchise is... there's no other word for it, it's exceptionally chaste, it's a playland for little boys to stay little boys, it's Peter Pan without Wendy. But in these comics especially, there are larger truths being discussed, there are very grown up ideas like politics and betrayal and loss and grief - but how can you have grief if you don't have emotional connections?

Somebody needs to start suing Disney when they buy the media to original stories then re-write them into their garbage that resembles next to nothing of the original story.

From my understanding Transformers robots don't need sex nor companionship because their a warrior race that get the emotions/desires/purpose in life they need from fighting,upgrading & killing.

If Transformers as a brand is to grow into a franchise that is more than just toys and 'toons, it needs to recognize that it is emotionally stunted... it's AUDIENCE needs to recognize that the franchise is stunted and needs to grow. That doesn't mean robo-boobs and hawt bot-on-bot action, those are common problems to comic books, mistaking sexuality for maturity. But it does mean accepting that people, whether man or machine, desperately need interpersonal connections; that the emotional truths in life mean that most people will crave sharing their life with others who are special to them. Relationships aren't meant to be feared, relationships are not the problem with franchises like this, it's only the way the fans (and by extension, the content-creators who cater to them) handle interpersonal relationships immaturely which should be avoided - and that applies to ANY fandom, not just Transformers.

The comics books industry is on it's last leg. In order to sell those comics now,they have to delve to new lows

[Tigermegatron]

Hasbro doesn't care what IDW writes/draws in those TF comics because the Targeted age group ( ages 4 to 9) that makes up 95% of TF toy sales is not buying nor reading the IDW TF comics. Since the targeted age group is not reading the IDW TF comics their basically invisble & don't exist to the 95%

[Onslaught Six]

Because, in this case, I honestly think that pandering was the motive. (Hey, if somebody wants to track down Roberts and ask him, be my guest.)

I decided to ask him.

https://twitter.com/jroberts332/status/ ... 1361417216

If you hate Twitter:

@jroberts332 Hey James. A friend of mine dropped MTMTE because he considered Chromdome&Rewind "pandering to shippers." I disagree. Thoughts?

.@OnslaughtSix Most fiction features couples, why not MTMTE? (There's a much longer response, but that can wait 'til I leave the title.)

(Given the 140 character restraint, I think I worded my original question well enough.)

So basically, I get two things out of this: Roberts wanted to explore a pair of characters who were in a relationship (regardless of gender and/or gender roles) and he still has plans as to why this is important (hence "that can wait until I leave the title.")

Roberts couldn’t ‘pander’ to Chromedome/Rewind shippers with what he wrote, because there were no Chromedome/Rewind shippers until he started putting out this story where Chromedome and Rewind were close! How could Roberts ‘pander’ to fans of a particular relationship when that particular relationship didn’t even exist until he wrote it?

Bingo! Shippers gonna ship, and more importantly, the pairings they ship are usually going to make no fucking sense. I used to follow this chick who posted a bunch of explicit Bluestreak/Smokescreen fanart. Why those two together? It had no basis in any of the canon fiction, at all. I didn't ask. (I still followed her blog anyway because, most of the time, it was just pictures of Datsuns and Bluestreak. Every once in a while, something weird would slip in.)

[Gomess]

Wow if this is what's going in the IDW TF G-1 comics,Then i'm glad I stopped buying everything after December 2011 came to a end.

As the first person to agree with Dom in this thread, care to elaborate?

From my understanding Transformers robots don't need sex nor companionship because their a warrior race that get the emotions/desires/purpose in life they need from fighting,upgrading & killing.

Really curious as to what you're basing this on, considering every iteration of TF has featured elements of romance, companionship, and occasionally 'sex' (BW being the most overt). And the basic fact that "warrior race" (ugh) and "companionship" aren't mutually exclusive. But really? "Fighting, upgrading and killing"? We've been following different franchises.

And thanks, Tigs, for confusing "couple" with "sexually active" right after I said that would be a mistake. =|

[Tigermegatron]

Wow if this is what's going in the IDW TF G-1 comics,Then i'm glad I stopped buying everything after December 2011 came to a end.

As the first person to agree with Dom in this thread, care to elaborate?

I wasn't a fan of Bumblebee being the faction leader of the autobots.

I didn't like how IDW pumped up the 2011 Choas saga only for it to turn out so dissapointing. It seems like the original story was going to focus heavily on "the void" & his origins back story. Then ofcause in typical IDW fashion another writer took over the comic & re-wrote everything. the end result we got a comic that wasted a whole of of issues with megatron & optimus sitting in chairs around a table exchanging back story origins & a battle of the egos. in typical IDW TF comic fashion 5+issues wasted time doing nothing by talking about stuff then the last issue or two kicked up the finale in a extremly fast rush job high pace scenario.