TF Views

BWprowl wrote:And yet, Shrapnel is still totally amazed and impressed that Starscream has the Matrix, even before Starscream says it 'chose' him.

How many would actually be able to get it out from inside Prime's chest? Of coarse Shrapnel would be amazed and impressed Starscream had it.

Either it has power or it doesn't.

Not likely. Again, only Prime can unlock its power as its chosen one, while it would be useless to everyone else. But Starscream apparently doesn't believe in this legends and 'chosen one' stuff, so given he (and Megatron) can't access its power, he believes it has no power at all.

Seriously, do you think Starscream would just toss an item of infinite power out of the airlock just because he couldn't find a way to open it within the first five minutes? If he actually thought it had power locked in it, he'd keep it around and figure something out. But he literally thought it was a useless 'bauble'.

You're forgetting Starscream knows Megatron "studied it for several cycles" but apparently couldn't unlock its secrets either. While Starscream doubts Megatrons leadership (from time to time), he knows Megatron is intelligent and should have found a way, if there was one to be had. With no way to get at the supposed infinite power it holds, it is useless to Starscream. Save for the lie he tells which he already knows will only last so long.

Dominic wrote:The Matrix has value beyond being a cosmic McGiffin if one is smart enough to exploit how others will react to it.

Only as long as one could keep up the lie that it actually chose them. As soon as the truth gets out, Starscream will be in a world of hurt.

Can I just say how impressed I am at this being the first case (that I can think of) of the Matrix of Leadership being written as something other than a cosmic, world-saving MacGuffin? I really hope other TF writers in the future follow suit.

BWprowl wrote:Can I just say how impressed I am at this being the first case (that I can think of) of the Matrix of Leadership being written as something other than a cosmic, world-saving MacGuffin? I really hope other TF writers in the future follow suit.

What about in the Unicron Trilogy? Or RiD? Neither of those showed the Matrix as a cosmic world-saving thing. But at any rate, I'd agree it's nice to see when the Matrix being written as something other than a comic, world-saving MacGrffin.

Sparky Prime wrote:

BWprowl wrote:Can I just say how impressed I am at this being the first case (that I can think of) of the Matrix of Leadership being written as something other than a cosmic, world-saving MacGuffin? I really hope other TF writers in the future follow suit.

What about in the Unicron Trilogy? Or RiD? Neither of those showed the Matrix as a cosmic world-saving thing. But at any rate, I'd agree it's nice to see when the Matrix being written as something other than a comic, world-saving MacGrffin.

Just picked up 13 today. Interesting stuff in there. I definately think Starscream thought it was useless until Shrapnel showed him that he could use it for his own purposes. One's thing's for sure, I look forward to seeing how this plays out.

Sparky Prime wrote:What about in the Unicron Trilogy? Or RiD? Neither of those showed the Matrix as a cosmic world-saving thing. But at any rate, I'd agree it's nice to see when the Matrix being written as something other than a comic, world-saving MacGrffin.

It had even less meaning in ArmEnerTron than you assumed it did in the earlier portion of AHM. (Which is to say, absolutely none at all. I think it was mentioned a total of three times.)

In RID, it was just a regular old Matrix Shard/Energon Matrix/whatever term you like--which we've seen from both the BWII Movie and BWNeo that the Matrix Shards are essentially just big chunks of energy. Break it out when you need an extra boost of BURNING JUSTICE!

(I am assuming we're just going with the Car Robots canon and ignoring that RID actually exists--because, after all, much as I dig that show, it does horrible things to the canon and namery when we take RID at face value.)

Onslaught Six wrote:It had even less meaning in ArmEnerTron than you assumed it did in the earlier portion of AHM. (Which is to say, absolutely none at all. I think it was mentioned a total of three times.)

Hardly... In Armada, Optimus called it a 'badge of office' and tried to pass it on to Hot Shot (who refused) before he faced off against Megatron's ship armed with the hydra canon, given the good possibility Optimus wouldn't be coming back (and he was right). Later the Mini-Cons used it to bring Optimus back to life. And Optimus leaves it behind for his final fight with Megatron and afterwords, as it floats by him in space, he believes he isn't worthy of it anymore.

He apparently reclaimed it before Energon took place, but didn't really do anything with it in that series. I guess you might count it created the 'Energon Blaster' for a single episode although the dub really screwed that up.

In Cybertron, Optimus used it to widen portals Vector Prime cut open, and when Optimus shot some energy from it into the Omega Lock, it triggered Cybertron's transformation into Primus. Vector Prime also explained his and Optimus' cyber keys were different as the result of the powerful objects they held (being VP's sword and the Matrix).

And the Matrix is still useless in AHM. I was right that the Decepticons can't do anything with it, save fore lie about it.

In RID, it was just a regular old Matrix Shard/Energon Matrix/whatever term you like--which we've seen from both the BWII Movie and BWNeo that the Matrix Shards are essentially just big chunks of energy. Break it out when you need an extra boost of BURNING JUSTICE!

(I am assuming we're just going with the Car Robots canon and ignoring that RID actually exists--because, after all, much as I dig that show, it does horrible things to the canon and namery when we take RID at face value.)

If I meant Car Robots, I would have said Car Robots. In RiD, it was supposed to be the Matrix of Leadership, not just a "Energon Matrix".

transtrekkie wrote:I definately think Starscream thought it was useless until Shrapnel showed him that he could use it for his own purposes.

Which is only a lie that only works so long as the other Decepticons don't know the Matrix is useless in Starscream's hands. I'd hardly call that actually being useful.

So what if Starscream has to lie about the Matrix having cosmic power he can use? The fact that lying is even a viable option proves the tremendous political value of the Matrix. It lets Starscream sell the idea that he is a leader, which is enough for him to be one.

He does not need the Matrix to hold power. If he can keep the lights on, the water running, the streets clean And the trains running on time, (and the other Decepticons from killing each other), he could hold onto leadership. Of course doing that means not thinking in terms of cosmic power.

The real question is if Starscream is smart enough to avoid the comic-book cliches, and how well the answer is written.

Dominic wrote: the trains running on time,

Delegate that one to Astrotrain, and that's one less thing he's gotta worry 'bout.

Dominic wrote:So what if Starscream has to lie about the Matrix having cosmic power he can use? The fact that lying is even a viable option proves the tremendous political value of the Matrix. It lets Starscream sell the idea that he is a leader, which is enough for him to be one.

The lie only works so long as the Decepticons actually believe the Matrix actually chose Starscream. That's the only reason it gives Starscream any political power for the moment. You can't believe there wont be any Decepticons who find this claim questionable. So how long until some Decepticons challenges this claim? How long until Starscream fails to prove the Matrix actually chose him?

He does not need the Matrix to hold power. If he can keep the lights on, the water running, the streets clean And the trains running on time, (and the other Decepticons from killing each other), he could hold onto leadership. Of course doing that means not thinking in terms of cosmic power.

This is Starscream we're talking about. He points out himself that as soon as they arrive at their destination "Razorclaw will immediately challenge my right to absolute rule". Starscream just doesn't have what it takes to maintain leadership and control over the entire Decepticon army on his own (at least not yet from what Megatron seems to indicate). This lie that the Matrix chose him is the only thing to delay that inevitability.

...I don't understand what your argument is. Literally. All you seem to be saying is that Starscream will not be able to hold Decepticon command power for very long before the other Decepticons figure out the Matrix isn't doing jack for him. And someone (likely Razorclaw) is going to challenge Starscream's command, and all hell will thus break loose. And that'll be an interesting story to see.

Or Galvatron will show up and claim to be Megatron from the future. Even if he's not! He could just think it's a good idea. And it's not like Megs would be around to stop him.