TF Views

Sparky Prime wrote:

Onslaught Six wrote:YES. IT IS.

THE COMMON MAN DOES NOT UNDERSTAND OUR GEEKY POP CULTURE REFERENCES AND THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MARVEL, DC, STAR TREK, STAR WARS, TRANSFORMERS, GOBOTS, XBOX OR PS3.

No, it's not. Typing in all capital letters with random pictures isn't going change that. To the common movie-goer, a super hero is a super hero. They probably aren't going to care which publisher the character belongs to. That'd be more like Paramount and 20th Century Fox is for Star Trek and Star Wars. But the average movie goer is going to know the difference between Spider-Man and Batman. The names alone give you an indication of how they are different. Similarly, while Star Trek and Star Wars are in the same vein of genre, they are very different types of movies.

It absolutely is the same thing. Confusing one thing for another is the same regardless of which two items you plug into that equation.

Sparky Prime wrote:

It's like you give the human race too much credit or something. People are fucking dumb.

I'll admit to being an optimist, while most people on this board seem to be more on the pessimist side. The truth most often lies in the middle.

Shockwave wrote:I think the point we're all trying to make Sparky, is that these people are out there. They exist.

I'm not saying there aren't. Obviously there are always exceptions. My point is about in-general. Most people know what Star Wars is, at least.

And that's where the disagreement is happening. This IS the definition of "in General". They're not the exceptions, they're the rule. WE'RE the exceptions. The actual Star Wars fanbase accounts for a small percentage of the population of Earth. Or even America (Gomess is in England so that's why I went with "Earth"). And "in general" people are yes, aware of what Star Wars is, but they're not familiar with the extra media.

Sparky Prime wrote:

I watch the movies but have not read hardly any of the books or comics. Yeah, I have seen images of female Siths but would be hard pressed to name any of them cause they weren't in the movies.

And that's actually the point I've been making. Not that you can name any of those character's, just that you know they exist.

No, that's what it's degenerated into. Your original argument was trying to tell us that all the extra books, comics and shit is just as recognizable to your average soccer mom as the movies are and that just simply isn't true. And, actually, on the face of it, if someone was to ask me if there are female Sith, my knee jerk reaction would be no. Until someone pointed out that Twilek Darth Maul looking chick at which point I'd say "Doesn't count cause it's not in the movies." That's Lucas' rule not mine.

Shockwave wrote:It absolutely is the same thing. Confusing one thing for another is the same regardless of which two items you plug into that equation.

No it isn't... Confusing two things that are very similar to each other is understandable. Confusing two things that aren't that similar is ignorance.

And that's where the disagreement is happening. This IS the definition of "in General". They're not the exceptions, they're the rule. WE'RE the exceptions.

So then you're saying the MAJORITY of people have no clue what Star Wars is? Despite it being one of the top grossing films and franchises of all time? Despite being a cultural icon? Despite all the other media that it encompasses?

And "in general" people are yes, aware of what Star Wars is, but they're not familiar with the extra media.

Ah, see now that's where you're missing the point... As I'll point out with the next segment.

Your original argument was trying to tell us that all the extra books, comics and shit is just as recognizable to your average soccer mom as the movies are and that just simply isn't true.

No it wasn't. My original argument was that people are aware women are Jedi and Sith. You see female Jedi in the prequel movies, and they suggest Leia would be one with training. My point about the rest of the Star Wars media was that it brings more attention to female Force users, adding to the general consciousness that those women are there.

Sparky Prime wrote:

Shockwave wrote:It absolutely is the same thing. Confusing one thing for another is the same regardless of which two items you plug into that equation.

No it isn't... Confusing two things that are very similar to each other is understandable. Confusing two things that aren't that similar is ignorance.

What? What the hell kind of crack are you smoking? Where in the history of this thread did you ever get that any of us thought that people were confusing things that weren't similar? Seriously, go find it and quote it. The examples given so far were Star Trek/Star Wars, Marvel/DC. How are either of those comparisons not similar? It's not like anyone said people were comparing apples to nuclear reactors.

Sparky Prime wrote:

And that's where the disagreement is happening. This IS the definition of "in General". They're not the exceptions, they're the rule. WE'RE the exceptions.

So then you're saying the MAJORITY of people have no clue what Star Wars is? Despite it being one of the top grossing films and franchises of all time? Despite being a cultural icon? Despite all the other media that it encompasses?

See, I see what you did there, cropping my words in some vain attempt to make it look like I missed the point while conveniently leaving out the answer to your question which was right there in the same post:

I wrote:And "in general" people are yes, aware of what Star Wars is, but they're not familiar with the extra media.

Sparky Prime wrote:

And "in general" people are yes, aware of what Star Wars is, but they're not familiar with the extra media.

Ah, see now that's where you're missing the point... As I'll point out with the next segment.

Your original argument was trying to tell us that all the extra books, comics and shit is just as recognizable to your average soccer mom as the movies are and that just simply isn't true.

No it wasn't. My original argument was that people are aware women are Jedi and Sith.

Okay. Fair enough.

Sparky Prime wrote:You see female Jedi in the prequel movies, and they suggest Leia would be one with training.

Okay, fair enough.

Sparky Prime wrote:My point about the rest of the Star Wars media was that it brings more attention to female Force users,

And again okay fair enough.

Sparky Prime wrote:adding to the general consciousness that those women are there.

And this is where you lose us. With the term "general consciousness". Because the way that's worded seems to imply that your average every day non comic reading soccer mom is somehow familiar with all of Star Wars outside of the six movies. Now, maybe that's not what you mean to imply, but that's what's coming across. So maybe the term "general consciousness" needs to be defined or maybe reworded to better represent what you actually mean. Personally, I think this is one of those times where the words you're using aren't really illustrating your point and we're all getting hung up on the words rather than what you really mean and now we've gone ten pages of "guess what Sparky's really talking about".

Shockwave wrote:What? What the hell kind of crack are you smoking? Where in the history of this thread did you ever get that any of us thought that people were confusing things that weren't similar? Seriously, go find it and quote it. The examples given so far were Star Trek/Star Wars, Marvel/DC. How are either of those comparisons not similar? It's not like anyone said people were comparing apples to nuclear reactors.

What about Star Trek and Star Wars is similar to you? They both have Star in the title and make use of space travel? That's. about. it. They are two totally different types of movies. To say they are similar enough to confuse is ignorance.

See, I see what you did there, cropping my words in some vain attempt to make it look like I missed the point while conveniently leaving out the answer to your question which was right there in the same post:

You did miss my point because, as I said, I was talking about in-general, that most people know what Star Wars is at least. And instead you were still talking about the other media. And now you seem to be conveniently leaving out my full response by cropping out that I did, in fact, address the rest of your post, which you didn't even seem to do here.

And this is where you lose us. With the term "general consciousness". Because the way that's worded seems to imply that your average every day non comic reading soccer mom is somehow familiar with all of Star Wars outside of the six movies. Now, maybe that's not what you mean to imply, but that's what's coming across. So maybe the term "general consciousness" needs to be defined or maybe reworded to better represent what you actually mean. Personally, I think this is one of those times where the words you're using aren't really illustrating your point and we're all getting hung up on the words rather than what you really mean and now we've gone ten pages of "guess what Sparky's really talking about".

Going back and re-reading this debacle... The "general consciousness" thing was originally about people being aware that there are women Jedi/Sith, which again, we see women Jedi in the movies. The fact they show up more pronounced in the other media should only add to that, which is what I pointed that out near the beginning. But somehow that point later ended up getting twisted into being all about the other media instead. That was about when I pointed out to Gomess that he was taking my point to one extreme or another, which is where I'm thinking the issue came from. He was taking it out of context, not that I mis-worded it. And in the meantime, I've been pointing out that I'm not saying the average soccer mom would be familiar with that media, although I do believe they might be aware of it having seen commercials, advertisements, toys or whatever else. Yet despite me explicitly saying this, the point is somehow getting lost. Seems to me people just aren't fully reading the posts.

Sparky Prime wrote:Seems to me people just aren't fully reading the posts.

There needs to be a word for when people end their arguments with this assertion. Good grief.

Sparky Prime wrote:

Shockwave wrote:What? What the hell kind of crack are you smoking? Where in the history of this thread did you ever get that any of us thought that people were confusing things that weren't similar? Seriously, go find it and quote it. The examples given so far were Star Trek/Star Wars, Marvel/DC. How are either of those comparisons not similar? It's not like anyone said people were comparing apples to nuclear reactors.

What about Star Trek and Star Wars is similar to you? They both have Star in the title and make use of space travel? That's. about. it. They are two totally different types of movies. To say they are similar enough to confuse is ignorance.

Ok, first off, this isn't about what I think is similar about the two because I know the difference. And to expand on that, second: It's not ignorance. Well, it is ignorance. On the part of the ones doing the confusing. But.... It happens. All. The. Fucking. Time. Seriously. I cannot tell you how many times I've been talking to someone who... is familiar that both exist and immediately confuse the two. The fact that I'm a Trekkie is pretty well known in my family. In spite of this, I have had numerous conversations with relatives trying to clarify the difference between the two and not succeeding. Yes, you read that right. They were biologically incapable of grasping the difference. And really the problem there is that they just don't care. Pretty much anyone over the age of... around 45 and has kids is most likely the type of person that goes to a movie and immediately forgets it. And when asked about it later most likely confuses it for something else. Mostly because they get so wrapped up with the other shit in their lives that they just don't have time to bother thinking about shit like the difference between Star Wars and Star Trek and continuity and whatever.

138 Scourge wrote:

Shockwave wrote:
And another example. I was working with a guy one time. Nice guy, HUGE football fan. Well I was helping him out with something one time and made a referrence to Chewbacca. He said "What's a Chewbacca?" Me: "... Seriously?" "I don't know what you just said" "Chewbacca. The Wookie? From Star Wars?" "What's Star Wars?"
My head exploded at that point. I think I made it a point not to talk to him anymore.

Other than that last bit, I'm kind of envious of that dude. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't mind having never heard of Star Wars by this point.

Yeah after this discussion who could blame you?

Shockwave wrote:I cannot tell you how many times I've been talking to someone who... is familiar that both exist and immediately confuse the two. The fact that I'm a Trekkie is pretty well known in my family. In spite of this, I have had numerous conversations with relatives trying to clarify the difference between the two and not succeeding. Yes, you read that right. They were biologically incapable of grasping the difference.

Sounds to me like they're just giving you a hard time. I remember my mom used to do the same thing sometimes when I was a kid but she only did it to see my reaction.

Pretty much anyone over the age of... around 45 and has kids is most likely the type of person that goes to a movie and immediately forgets it.

Star Trek has been around for about 46 years. Star Wars for 35. Most of those people would have been kids themselves when these franchises were new.

Gomess wrote:There needs to be a word for when people end their arguments with this assertion. Good grief.

Uh-huh... I'll remind you that I had to point out to you that I never said anything about people being able to name characters after you asserted that I had. Clear as print.

They weren't just giving me a hard time. I know the difference. And it seems that we've all experienced this. Except you apparently. I guess you live in some place where everyone is so vastly familiar with geek culture that you never encounter this. I seriously want to find whatever Geektopia you managed to find. The fact that just about every other nerd on the planet is why internet jokes like this are so hilarious:

http://nerdbastards.com/2010/12/20/trol ... nerds-off/

Shockwave wrote:Except you apparently. I guess you live in some place where everyone is so vastly familiar with geek culture that you never encounter this. I seriously want to find whatever Geektopia you managed to find.

Hardly. Just because I haven't experienced one thing you have doesn't mean everyone I know is "vastly familiar" with "geek culture" or that I live in a "Geektopia". Maybe the people I know just knows their movies better than the people you know.