Our dinnertime habit at my house is to pop a DVD of some tv show in and watch an episode while we eat. We have five or six shows in the rotation at any given time, and one of them is Star Trek Voyager. We're in the midst of season 7, so we're getting near the end of the series. And I think I've come to the conclusion that I actually like Voyager better than TNG. It's not as good as DS9, but I've found that I like Voyager's characters better, and often the stories as well. TNG really only has three good characters: Picard, Worf and Data, while everyone from Voyager has grown on me (yes, even Neelix). And the last season really does start to push many of the characters forward and wrap up some long-standing plot threads.
So, if I were to rank all the series in order from most to least favorite (not counting Discovery)
1. Star Trek - this will always be my sentimental favorite. I grew up watching the original Trek in re-runs, and even now there's something about the tone of the series, and the characters that still works and really sets it apart from the other shows. And they'll never beat the deep friendship of Kirk, Spock and McCoy.
2. Deep Space Nine - the best modern Trek, with great characters and the best long-running storylines, with such a great and extensive supporting cast that grow and develop over the seven years. This is a wonderful show, with some outstanding concepts and storytelling.
3. Voyager - while the writing is nowhere near as good as DS9, this is a strong action/adventure show, with a great concept (stranded on the far side of the galaxy) and a great cast of characters. I really didn't like it at all when it first aired, but watching it on DVD years later changed my opinion.
4. The Next Generation - a better written show than Voyager (at least during the middle seasons), with some of the best episodes, but as I indicated above, so many of the characters just fall flat. I like the show, but they can never figure out how to make Troi or LaForge or Dr. Crusher remotely interesting. And this is the Trek show with the steepest quality curve. It starts out with a mostly poor first season, gets better in the second, and has a great third through fifth season, while season six drops a bit, and season seven feels very tired.
5. Enterprise - not a bad show per se, but it feels tired and dull for much of the first and second seasons. The third season with the Xindi arc is a step up, and the fourth season feels like a proper Star Trek prequel series, only for that last episode to just be terrible.
Star Trek
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andersonh1
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Re: Star Trek
Alright, I'll weigh in:
TNG: This is easily my favorite Trek show. While I also grew up watching TOS in reruns, I really just thought this was Star Trek but better. I like the look and feel and the character interactions and... this might sound weird, but when I watch this, it's like going home. It's one show I can watch that instantly takes me to my happy place.
TOS: As mentioned above, I watched this growing up, even before I could talk. And then being able to still appreciate it later as an adult, well yeah, I mean I guess I could say the same thing about Transformers or He-Man, but that's different because those were written for kids, while this wasn't. And the fact that it can still appeal to so many people so many years later really says something.
DS9/VOY: Ok, yeah this is probably a cheat, but I actually do like them equally. Both series really struggled in the first few seasons but found their footing later on (DS9 once the Odo finds his people and then Voyager once Kes left). Both series also have a couple of characters that really just didn't do it for me. They never really figured out what to do with Jake Sisko and Kes was just a damn dumpster fire. At least Jake made sense as to why he was there, but Kes' character didn't make any sense in concept, to the point that everything about her just takes me out of the narrative.
ENT: Enterprise. Ugh. I remember when this was on and I was giving it a fair chance. Transformers Armada was running at the same time and I remember this because they both were so bad they became unwatchable in the same week. For Armada, it was the episode where Optimus refers to his minicon as Leader-1 and then the very next word of dialogue is Megatron also calling his minicon Leader-1!! For Enterprise, it was the episode with the Borg. At that point, I was done watching them try to shoehorn every TNG race into a pre TOS ear Trek for no reason than they can't figure out what to do otherwise. And it was always done so ham fisted and clumsily that I had just had enough. Now the last episode actually did redeem it for me, and yeah I know they PROBABLY didn't intend this but until someone explicitly comes out and says otherwise, I'm going to assume that when Riker walks out of the holodeck and says "End program" that it etcha-sketches the whole series. Also, In a mirror, darkly. That was an awesome episode. The Zindi storyline (which actually was started from the first episode) bored the crap out of me and they wasted way too much time on it.
TNG: This is easily my favorite Trek show. While I also grew up watching TOS in reruns, I really just thought this was Star Trek but better. I like the look and feel and the character interactions and... this might sound weird, but when I watch this, it's like going home. It's one show I can watch that instantly takes me to my happy place.
TOS: As mentioned above, I watched this growing up, even before I could talk. And then being able to still appreciate it later as an adult, well yeah, I mean I guess I could say the same thing about Transformers or He-Man, but that's different because those were written for kids, while this wasn't. And the fact that it can still appeal to so many people so many years later really says something.
DS9/VOY: Ok, yeah this is probably a cheat, but I actually do like them equally. Both series really struggled in the first few seasons but found their footing later on (DS9 once the Odo finds his people and then Voyager once Kes left). Both series also have a couple of characters that really just didn't do it for me. They never really figured out what to do with Jake Sisko and Kes was just a damn dumpster fire. At least Jake made sense as to why he was there, but Kes' character didn't make any sense in concept, to the point that everything about her just takes me out of the narrative.
ENT: Enterprise. Ugh. I remember when this was on and I was giving it a fair chance. Transformers Armada was running at the same time and I remember this because they both were so bad they became unwatchable in the same week. For Armada, it was the episode where Optimus refers to his minicon as Leader-1 and then the very next word of dialogue is Megatron also calling his minicon Leader-1!! For Enterprise, it was the episode with the Borg. At that point, I was done watching them try to shoehorn every TNG race into a pre TOS ear Trek for no reason than they can't figure out what to do otherwise. And it was always done so ham fisted and clumsily that I had just had enough. Now the last episode actually did redeem it for me, and yeah I know they PROBABLY didn't intend this but until someone explicitly comes out and says otherwise, I'm going to assume that when Riker walks out of the holodeck and says "End program" that it etcha-sketches the whole series. Also, In a mirror, darkly. That was an awesome episode. The Zindi storyline (which actually was started from the first episode) bored the crap out of me and they wasted way too much time on it.
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JediTricks
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Re: Star Trek
STD was like pulling teeth to finish, it was so bad. Michael Burnham was a total nonsensical character, baffling at every turn, they'd tell us one thing about her and then she'd behave in the stupidest opposite possible. The plot made no sense from start to finish, or should I say, from start to middle, since CBS stupidly put only episode 1 on which was half the pilot story and didn't even introduce to the main cast or the main storyline, this wasn't even the entire preamble from what I've been told - I've had no interest to go to CBS All Access to even see it on a free trial, or even pirate it. Literally the only character from it we'll stay with besides Burnham is Saru the alien wimpy guy, from what their own marketing materials have suggested. Nothing it did or showed was worthy of the Trek name in any way, they simply loosely used those trappings to put on a dark, ugly, stupid show.
Luckily for me, The Orville has been hitting my Trek needs pretty well. It's clumsy and the humor is not fitting so well, but overall it's working on that level. I won't be surprised if Fox doesn't pick it up but I'm glad someone actually tried to make a real Trek show in the 21st century with Trek ideals on a more grounded level instead of making everything all about action and grandiose storytelling.
For my tastes, it's TNG >TOS > TOS Movies > DS9, and then after this it's a HUGE falloff, finally sinking at VOY > ENT > STD. What the shows I liked did best is they focused on good character-based storytelling, substance rather than flash, and used the trappings of the setting to tell human stories rather than tell stories about the trappings. When TOS or TNG get into technobabble it's generally simpler concepts the audience can grasp, usually it's based upon something theoretical in our world, and it's generally not a driving element of the plot which becomes a cheat; where VOY and ENT really get lost is thinking general audiences give a crap about the subspace bubble being interlaced with tachyon particles on a quantum level making it possible for Neelix to make Blovian chili. VOY and ENT have characters who are sold short at nearly every turn, are poorly conceived and executed on the page, and what little is good about them is swept under the rug to force tension. Jonathan Archer is a real bummer of a character for me because I like Backula, but he doesn't fit the character they executed, he's not a Trek kind of actor so they have him just yell and act like a caveman instead of genuinely work things out - they use writing shorthand (since the producers and writers had mostly all been on since the last days of TNG and got lost in the "things have to be done this way" thinking) instead of really considering how to show the guy's humanity building up a skill set; they *tell* us he's the best diplomat of all time, but to keep the show's tension ramped up they just *show* him angry and violent.
Oh man, that Xindi storyline did everything wrong, even its own premise, it was so long and boring and stupid.
Luckily for me, The Orville has been hitting my Trek needs pretty well. It's clumsy and the humor is not fitting so well, but overall it's working on that level. I won't be surprised if Fox doesn't pick it up but I'm glad someone actually tried to make a real Trek show in the 21st century with Trek ideals on a more grounded level instead of making everything all about action and grandiose storytelling.
For my tastes, it's TNG >TOS > TOS Movies > DS9, and then after this it's a HUGE falloff, finally sinking at VOY > ENT > STD. What the shows I liked did best is they focused on good character-based storytelling, substance rather than flash, and used the trappings of the setting to tell human stories rather than tell stories about the trappings. When TOS or TNG get into technobabble it's generally simpler concepts the audience can grasp, usually it's based upon something theoretical in our world, and it's generally not a driving element of the plot which becomes a cheat; where VOY and ENT really get lost is thinking general audiences give a crap about the subspace bubble being interlaced with tachyon particles on a quantum level making it possible for Neelix to make Blovian chili. VOY and ENT have characters who are sold short at nearly every turn, are poorly conceived and executed on the page, and what little is good about them is swept under the rug to force tension. Jonathan Archer is a real bummer of a character for me because I like Backula, but he doesn't fit the character they executed, he's not a Trek kind of actor so they have him just yell and act like a caveman instead of genuinely work things out - they use writing shorthand (since the producers and writers had mostly all been on since the last days of TNG and got lost in the "things have to be done this way" thinking) instead of really considering how to show the guy's humanity building up a skill set; they *tell* us he's the best diplomat of all time, but to keep the show's tension ramped up they just *show* him angry and violent.
Oh man, that Xindi storyline did everything wrong, even its own premise, it was so long and boring and stupid.
See, that one's a camcorder, that one's a camera, that one's a phone, and they're doing "Speak no evil, See no evil, Hear no evil", get it?
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Sparky Prime
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Re: Star Trek
I have a hard time separating which I like more out of TNG, DS9 and Voyager. I grew up watching all of them, and honestly, I love them all. Although I will say DS9 took me a bit longer to get into when it first aired than the other two, but when they introduced the Founders and the Defiant, it really took off.
TOS - I only place it a bit lower because the series always felt a little too dated for my taste. I'm a bigger fan of the films.
Enterprise - It was an interesting idea to do a prequel, and I loved that they cast Scott Bakula as the captain. But unfortunately, they did exactly what I'd feared they'd do with the series as a prequel. Like introducing alien races we'd never seen before as the main villains of the series, technology they wouldn't have for hundreds of years and basically screwing up continuity.
Discovery - Yeah, they're only like 3 episodes in, but I'm already placing it dead last. The pilot episodes of every Star Trek series are among my favorites, but this series pilot, or the first half of it at any rate, was just terrible.
TOS - I only place it a bit lower because the series always felt a little too dated for my taste. I'm a bigger fan of the films.
Enterprise - It was an interesting idea to do a prequel, and I loved that they cast Scott Bakula as the captain. But unfortunately, they did exactly what I'd feared they'd do with the series as a prequel. Like introducing alien races we'd never seen before as the main villains of the series, technology they wouldn't have for hundreds of years and basically screwing up continuity.
Discovery - Yeah, they're only like 3 episodes in, but I'm already placing it dead last. The pilot episodes of every Star Trek series are among my favorites, but this series pilot, or the first half of it at any rate, was just terrible.
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Sparky Prime
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Re: Star Trek
So a bit more about Star Trek Discovery since I've been reading summaries and stuff....
Apparently when Sarek found Michael Burnham unconscious after the Klingon attack on her colony, he mindmelded with her to revive her, and also left part of his katra in her. This allows them to somehow communicate with each other telepathically over light years... Somehow. She never attended Starfleet Academy, instead graduating from the Vulcan Science Academy and then she joined the crew of the Shenzhou where she eventually rose to the rank of Commander. How does she not attend Starfleet Academy but still end up as Commander on a Starship with a Starfleet commission?
She gets court martialed for being the "first mutineer in Starfleet" (despite Enterprise having a few) and sentenced to jail for the rest of her life... Only to be rescued by the Discovery because Captain Lorca wants her expertise in quantum physics for the secret project they are working on. That project? A "spore drive", which uses mycelium spores from a fungi to access a "mycelial network" that can send them anywhere in the cosmos.
Not only does the science of this make no sense, I hate the idea of technology in Star Trek that can send something 'anywhere in the cosmos', like the 'transwarp transporter' in the JJ films.
Apparently when Sarek found Michael Burnham unconscious after the Klingon attack on her colony, he mindmelded with her to revive her, and also left part of his katra in her. This allows them to somehow communicate with each other telepathically over light years... Somehow. She never attended Starfleet Academy, instead graduating from the Vulcan Science Academy and then she joined the crew of the Shenzhou where she eventually rose to the rank of Commander. How does she not attend Starfleet Academy but still end up as Commander on a Starship with a Starfleet commission?
She gets court martialed for being the "first mutineer in Starfleet" (despite Enterprise having a few) and sentenced to jail for the rest of her life... Only to be rescued by the Discovery because Captain Lorca wants her expertise in quantum physics for the secret project they are working on. That project? A "spore drive", which uses mycelium spores from a fungi to access a "mycelial network" that can send them anywhere in the cosmos.
Not only does the science of this make no sense, I hate the idea of technology in Star Trek that can send something 'anywhere in the cosmos', like the 'transwarp transporter' in the JJ films.Re: Star Trek
I can't help noticing that one of the executive producers is Alex Kurtzman, who also wrote part of the JJ films. In addition to the problems you mentioned I also take issue with a mutineer with a life sentence being placed back in active duty, especially on one of the most advanced ships in the fleet. This is just as stupid as Kirk going from cadet to captain. It's like Kurtzman doesn't have even a basic understanding of any military organization works.
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andersonh1
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Re: Star Trek
Quentin Tarantino directing a Star Trek film? This sounds like a disaster in the making.
http://www.businessinsider.com/quentin- ... ow-2017-12
http://www.businessinsider.com/quentin- ... ow-2017-12
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Sparky Prime
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Re: Star Trek
Tarantino does make some good films but... None of them are in the same vein as Star Trek. Honestly, I can't see him directing a Star Trek, unless it's a Star Trek in name only...
Re: Star Trek
Kinda like the current films thenSparky Prime wrote:Tarantino does make some good films but... None of them are in the same vein as Star Trek. Honestly, I can't see him directing a Star Trek, unless it's a Star Trek in name only...
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Sparky Prime
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Re: Star Trek
Basically, yeah. Although I'm kinda picturing Kill Bill, except with star ships...Shockwave wrote:Kinda like the current films then