We've got Hall of Fame voting going on up there

[Dominic]

Honestly, it is also the fact that nothing good has come of BW since (at the very, most charitably, latest) '04. I would argue that it is more like "since early '02". The show benefits from being mediocre on the heels of something that was truly bad.

Dom
-thinks we might not want to put Barricade over, and should focus on viable characters.

[Shockwave]

Great. Now some other obnoxious fan is pushing Erector. Weren't we originally supposed to submit real reasons for choices last year? That's it! I'm out! I'm not going to continue to participate in and perpetuate a system that encourages this level of corruption. Hasbro needs to put the kabosh on letting fans choose. The fandom obviously isn't mature enough to handle it. Incidently, is there anything in the rules that allows someone to go request reasons for the nominations of the last 7 posts in the voting thread and to delete said votes as spam if there aren't better reasons given that "I just felt like naming blank"? I mean every single one starts with Erector and seems to get more random and obscure on each list from there.

[Onslaught Six]

I think it's a perpetuation from some April Fool's joke on another forum, actually. Doesn't mean those votes shouldn't be excised and this guy and his sockpuppets a stern warning about fouling up official business.

[JediTricks]

I won't be counting those posts in our poll, as I stated in the voting thread. They are actually 7 different users, existing ones from other forums even, but that doesn't make the shenanigans any less intolerable. Nobody should be coming to TFV trying to rook us.

I do agree that TF fandom seems to be fairly immature about these sorts of things, but I would disagree that they should be removed from the process. If anything, the fans should be forced to endure the "fruits of their labors", forced to put their money where their mouths went, that might make them reconsider being stupid.


As for Dinobot, he's a major character in a significant portion of TF lore. It's not as if TF has had an illustrious history since, apart from Animated it's been somewhat mediocre really. G1's importance is significant, but the reality is that it's still coasting on a foundation built over the span of a few years back in the '80s. BW wasn't merely a blip on an otherwise massive, impressive Transformers scene, it was a turning point for the brand, new concepts and new storytelling ideas, to dismiss that as meaningless would be blinding one's self. I'm not trying to say that Dinobot was a great choice, but I can understand it a hell of a lot better than Erector there.

[Dominic]

I will not call it "corruption". But, it is definitely immature.

I would give people trying to put their favorites over. If O6 *really* wanted to see Onslaught go over, I would give it to him. Similarly, a friend of mine has an odd obsession with Gears. If he wanted to put Gears over, I would give it to him. But, this is more a question of a few self-indulgent pricks trying to put an obscure character over because he has a funny name.

Hasbro is trying to give us a chance to have a good time and let themselves get some market research done. (I have no doubt that Jazz's strong showing last year played a role in the toy we got at the end of '10.) Shit like putting Erector or Dinobot over defeats any good purpose the "Hall of Fame" might have.

We may not be able to control who is in the fandom. But, as one of forums involved in the voting, we can sure as hell influence which fans are (and are not) involved. We do not need the sort who would try to put Erector over.


Dom
-ban them. Please.

[Dominic]

I kind of like Shockwave's idea for discussing our picks. Lets go with it.

-Jazz: Generally consistent characterization over 25+ years, and even the deviations have more in common than in contrast. And, he has a real shot at winning this year.

-Shockwave: Another close one from last year. And, while the characterization is not always consistent across iterations of the line, (or even simultaneously to each other), there has never been an unimportant iteration of the character in context. ("Alternators" had no context to speak of. And, the other characters given the name were minor and largely forgotten.)

-Mirage: As is the case with Jazz, Mirage has had largely consistent characterization over the years. And, there is something to be said for a good guy who is not entirely gung-ho for his faction. The fact that the other Autobots know this, (going back to MtMtE part III and the early issues of the comics), and are shown to comment on it just adds to Mirage as a character. (Look at their reaction in MtMtE after Mirage brings down the Decepticon ship. They are actually suprised he did it, and expected him to hitch a ride home.)

-Thundercracker: While early iterations were not consistent with newer iterations of the character, Thundercracker has a huge following that pre-dates Thundergate in '07. The character art is also very recognizable.

Lockdown: As much as I have come to disdain TFA, albeit after the fact, Lockdown seems to have staying power. And, the basic concept of the character is sound. Transformers is about change, and there is no reason to ignore the importance of newer characters. And, Lockdown is one of the more credible contenders for the "Hall of Fame".



Dom
-still wants the Erector party banned.

[Onslaught Six]

I think I just haphazardly threw up my list without thinking nor considering who I voted for last year because I just noticed Shockwave is missing from my list. How the hell...

1. Barricade - Mostly #1 because I really want Barricade to win it. I feel like the fandom kind of eschews the Movie universe for what the Movies are and not what the actual universe itself, and the potential it has, is. Even a competent retelling of the Movies could be awesome, and would also much more likely feature Barricade 'being awesome.' Barricade's influence shows in the fact that we got a guy in ROTF who was clearly meant to be him (Sideways) and also Barricade appeared in the WfC game. Sure, it was "sort of" G1 Barricade, but you can't tell me that Movie Barricade had nothing to do with it.

2. Jazz - Consistent characterization, and on top of that he's just always got a good look. Jazz is cool, and he's kind of essential to any G1 retelling. I even liked Animated Jazz's whole bit, where he really felt out of place with Sentinel's crew. (I vote Phil LaMarr voices all future Jazzes.)

3. Grimlock - Like it or not, Grimlock's important. Most people on the fringes of TF remember Grimlock because he was The Dinosaur, and those within the fandom recognize Grimlock for being an actual good character in the 80s and completely overused for a while in the early 2000s. (I must give Furman credit for managing to avoid overexposing Grimlock, and even making Maximum Dinobots, a series ostensibly meant to focus on GrImLocK bEiNg baDAsS!!~1 into something seriously good.)

4. Thundercracker - Because Thundercracker.

5. Prowl - Prowl works as the foil to a lot of characters. He's the Autobots' dark side, I guess. Always the guy willing to murder, cheat, lie, steal--because he realizes that the Autobots can't hold up this good guy ideal forever, right? And Prime knows he's right, and that's why Prime has to struggle with it. It's great, when it's done right.

[Dominic]

I seriously considered putting Barricade up, even posting him initially and then editing the post in favor of Lockdown. (I just see Lockdown as being more likely to go over.) But, I could totally support Barricade. (Barricade is one of the few movie toys I am keeping.)

Prowl was another "almost" for me. I would disagree that Prowl is consistently ready to fight dirty though. Even putting aside his face-turn in IDW, the Marvel iteration of Prowl was much less ruthless than many remember him to be. (Yes, he was a bit of a prig. But, that is not the same as the way Roche presented him.)

Grimlock is another one of those characters I could get behind. (I would also like a legitimately good Grimlock toy that does not cost $70+, which is another reason to support him.)

[JediTricks]

Well I can see JT's point about the different users, most of the usernames are ones I recognize from TFW as different users that frequently post there. So I never actually thought it was the same person, but it is definately an obvious attempt to skew the results and I'm glad JT isn't counting them.

The email addresses came up independently of the usernames, too. I actually had thought it was one person until then, the timing and such really looked like it. But it's clearly just shenanigans directed at us no matter what.

I would give people trying to put their favorites over. If O6 *really* wanted to see Onslaught go over, I would give it to him. Similarly, a friend of mine has an odd obsession with Gears. If he wanted to put Gears over, I would give it to him. But, this is more a question of a few self-indulgent pricks trying to put an obscure character over because he has a funny name.

I like Brawn specifically because of the cartoon character, if there's another HOF next year and one from my current list is chosen, Brawn will end up on there and I'd campaign for that (none of my choices so far need campaigning, it's like championing the use of air). That is the sort of sway I'd be likely to put up with from someone else, and Erector stuff isn't even that. It's not even a funny name IMO, which makes this such a waste.

Hasbro is trying to give us a chance to have a good time and let themselves get some market research done. (I have no doubt that Jazz's strong showing last year played a role in the toy we got at the end of '10.) Shit like putting Erector or Dinobot over defeats any good purpose the "Hall of Fame" might have.

And I still think you're being unfair lumping Dinobot in with this Erector thing.

We may not be able to control who is in the fandom. But, as one of forums involved in the voting, we can sure as hell influence which fans are (and are not) involved. We do not need the sort who would try to put Erector over.

I don't like what you're expressing here, that we would want to pick and choose who votes on our site. TFV is not meant to be exclusive membership, we're supposed to welcome alternate views, that's part of what bugs me about your anti-Dinobot stance. We do want it to be members of the community, but if someone new joined a week before voting next year and then voted, as long as it didn't look fishy I can't see why that'd be a problem.

I'll discuss the banning issue in your banning thread.

I'll discuss the character issues in this thread once I've woken up some more and started my day.

[Dominic]

i admit, i am a bit snitty about "Beast Wars". It was more the glam-whoring involved in putting Dinobot over. But, yeah, I can admit to being unfair. (That does not mean I am going to stop though....)


As I argued elsewhere, there is a difference between having an open forum and tolerating idiots. In this case, we have 7 people who want to hijack the hobby for their own whimsy. That is less about opinions than basic manners. We can be open without letting people take advantage of us.


Dom
-everybody, jigger your votes at the last minute!