We've got Hall of Fame voting going on up there

[Dominic]

I know. I know.

Don't let it get to you. It's not worth the trouble.

The thing is that I, (and likely Prowl and O6), need a monster to define myself against. Walky is it. We have enough in common that I can rationally comprehend what he is. And, I do not like it. Of course, part of that negative definition is that I have bad associations with the things he likes. (Walky is obviously a nice strawman representing a whole group of noxious folk.)

G1 is still my favorite.

Okay lets take this in a more positive direction.

What exactly does "G1" mean? As O6 pointed out, it has been retooled and re-done so many times over the years that it is hard to be sure what someone means. There is no inherent time element to the name, unless one ties it purely to 1984 thru 1992. Of course, what then would we call IDW's main book, (that we happen to discuss in the G1 forums)?

I am not much a fan of the old cartoon. (I loved it as a kid. But, it aged very badly.) I generally avoid G1 toys unless they are the only way to get certain characters. That leaves chunks of the comics along with scattered characters and toys from my childhood.

But, as much as I do not like "looking back", TFU was one of my favorite sub-lines. "Generations" is probably going to be more appealling than I want it to be, even with my (wholly justifiable) gripes about the jet. "Last Stand of the Wreckers" and "All Hail Megatron" are two of my favorite TF comics ever. (AHM actually kept me in comics before "Dark Avengers" popped up.) But, is anything mentioned in this paragraph really G1 any more than "Project Superpowers" is really about Golden Age characters? Or, is TFU simply a "Transformers" sub-line and AHM simply a "Transformers" story?


Dom
-still wants nothing to do with Walky and his ilk though.

[Shockwave]

Dom, I get what you're saying and it does make sense. I try to be my own face of the fandom. Hasbro may somehow acknowledge Walky as what they see as the face of the fandom, but he doesn't represent me in any way, official or otherwise. And Anderson nailed the internet thing on the head. The internet wasn't around when we started into the fandom, which is kind of my point. You were a fan on your own for your own reasons and interacting with other fans, good or bad, shouldn't have any affect on that. I was a fan on my own and will still like TFs for those same reasons probably until the day I die. If I interact with a negative part of the fan base, I write them off as not worth my time and move on.

And apparently we were replying at the same time. Anyway, I've never needed a "monster" to define myself against. I am who I am and like what I like and if people accept that great, if not, it means nothing to me. I can see being irritated with liking some of the same things as Walky, but you're Dom, you're not Walky.

As for defining "G1", I generally refer to G1 to mean anything '84-'88. Yes, technically I know there was stuff that came after it, but I was kind of out of it by then. At the time I often thought of post movie bots as "2nd generation" TFs. But I digress. Anyway, yeah, "G1" has been reimagined over the years. I reconcile it by thinking of things like AHM as a retelling of events that happened to those characters from that time. It's a different story than the original comics and the original cartoon so it's easy to accept it as something that's both different and the same.

[Dominic]

True enough. But, pavlovian associations and all that.


In theory, I agree with your definition of G1. But, operationally, I use 'G1' as a short-hand for "things that kind of look like 'G1'". It is not unlike how I know that Hasbro has declared "Sliverstreak" to be the new name for the character we grew up thinking of as Bluestreak. (This is actually a good example fo the editorial fiats I was talking about over in the comics thread.) I do not dispute "Silverstreak" being the correct name. But, I often get lazy and end up using the old name, "Bluestreak", despite knowing it is now incorrect.


Dom
-oddly does not have that problem when talking about tapes/Minicons.

[andersonh1]

What exactly does "G1" mean? As O6 pointed out, it has been retooled and re-done so many times over the years that it is hard to be sure what someone means. There is no inherent time element to the name, unless one ties it purely to 1984 thru 1992. Of course, what then would we call IDW's main book, (that we happen to discuss in the G1 forums)?

I suppose in the context of my comment I was mainly thinking of the original toyline, and more specifically, the figures from 84 through 86 when I was originally buying them (or trying to get parents and grandparents to buy them for me). I'm not sure I had the current comics in mind, though they're certainly set in one version of the G1 continuity. But yes, I do enjoy them enough to buy them while I don't buy Animated or movie-based comics, and that's primarily because of the time-frame that the characters first appeared.

I am not much a fan of the old cartoon. (I loved it as a kid. But, it aged very badly.) I generally avoid G1 toys unless they are the only way to get certain characters. That leaves chunks of the comics along with scattered characters and toys from my childhood.

Even though Beast Wars was what actually got me started collecting, I was far happier about the fact that I could find original G1 figures on Ebay and collect those. And then later the reissues started, which were exactly what I wanted: minty new G1 Transformers. I'll freely admit that modern lines have greatly improved engineering and sculpting, and are better by just about every technical definition (and this objectivity probably spares me from being a gewunner!), but I still enjoy owning the old figures. They do feel very fragile to me now, and I wonder how I avoided destroying the ones I owned during childhood.

I've got all the comics from the time that I really want. I started collecting the comic around issue 43 or so, or whatever the Seacon/Decepticon resort island storyline began in, and bought it until the book was cancelled. I used to buy them off the circular rack in local drugstores or gas stations in the days before I found the local comic book shops. These days I just don't really enjoy the writing style or storylines from most of the older comics, and I haven't really been motivated to track them down. I agree that the cartoon has aged badly in some ways, but I've still found myself buying the box sets for when I occasionally get the urge to revisit the show. There are certainly a few strong episodes worth owning.

But, as much as I do not like "looking back", TFU was one of my favorite sub-lines. "Generations" is probably going to be more appealling than I want it to be, even with my (wholly justifiable) gripes about the jet. "Last Stand of the Wreckers" and "All Hail Megatron" are two of my favorite TF comics ever. (AHM actually kept me in comics before "Dark Avengers" popped up.) But, is anything mentioned in this paragraph really G1 any more than "Project Superpowers" is really about Golden Age characters? Or, is TFU simply a "Transformers" sub-line and AHM simply a "Transformers" story?

I think we need a new thread to discuss this topic. Could be interesting.

[Dominic]

I was just trying to get this thread out of "Walky sucks munky nuts" mode. Are you trying to pad the thread count, (which makes perfect sense), or do you really want to start a new thread?

Even when I can find G1 toys in good condition, (re-issues and such), I just cannot bring myself to buy too many of them. The technical improvements you mention are a big factor here.

At this point, I consider myself to be a fan of the hobby. I generally find at least one thing to keep my interest, be it toys or comics. When both are available and appealling, as is the case now, well then.......

Does it make me a GeeWunner to be so excited about new toys based on old characters, rather than getting new character?


Dom
-Jazz, and Tracks? Will they look like AHM?

[Onslaught Six]

In theory, I agree with your definition of G1. But, operationally, I use 'G1' as a short-hand for "things that kind of look like 'G1'". It is not unlike how I know that Hasbro has declared "Sliverstreak" to be the new name for the character we grew up thinking of as Bluestreak. (This is actually a good example fo the editorial fiats I was talking about over in the comics thread.) I do not dispute "Silverstreak" being the correct name. But, I often get lazy and end up using the old name, "Bluestreak", despite knowing it is now incorrect.

It's interesting you mention that, because I'm sure the Hasbro guys sit around drawing concept pictures with "HE'S BLUESTREAK GOD DAMN IT" written under them. Silverstreak is only his official name because it has to be--if they could, they'd name him Bluestreak.

Does it make me a GeeWunner to be so excited about new toys based on old characters, rather than getting new character?

You know, a lot of this whole "We want new characters!" stuff seems to only occur with us TF fans. You never see comics fans sitting around complaining, "Man, this book is just full of the same characters we've read about for years! Why not invent some new ones?! Lazy writers!" If anything, they want some more obscure characters who are unexposed to come to the forelight. Why sit around *inventing* badass new Decepticons when there's a plethora of badass old Decepticons you can turn into toys? I have no doubt that due to Last Stand of the Wreckers, Overlord is on a short list for the post-Movie 3 line, if only for a Voyager or Ultra figure. (Ultra would be totally acceptable if they design him like Tidal Wave, to be insanely tall. In fact, Tidal Wave's proportions aren't that far off from Overlord's.)

Jazz, and Tracks? Will they look like AHM?

Wasn't Jazz still using the old EJ Su design? And honestly, I didn't see much difference with him or Tracks from the original models.

Maybe when it comes to minute details, yeah, but there's core elements that stay true in almost every TF design. EJ Su putting the oil drums 'in' Prime's thighs was a huge change (and honestly one I never liked) but the rest of his design was played straight.

[andersonh1]

I was just trying to get this thread out of "Walky sucks munky nuts" mode. Are you trying to pad the thread count, (which makes perfect sense), or do you really want to start a new thread?

It seemed like enough of a shift off topic that a separate thread seemed appropriate.

[Shockwave]

It's funny you guys should mention Bluestreak, because I flat out refuse to even say (or type) the other name. I'm enormously Geewunny about that.

[andersonh1]

It's funny you guys should mention Bluestreak, because I flat out refuse to even say (or type) the other name. I'm enormously Geewunny about that.

Yeah, I prefer "Bluestreak" as well. It's a fun bit of wordplay referring to the way the character runs off at the mouth. It tells us something about him, as opposed to "Silverstreak" which doesn't tell much.

[Shockwave]

I had actually heard that Hasbro lost the rights to the name "Bluestreak" because of that lame-ass Martin Lawrence movie. This is one reason why Martin Lawrence is my nemesis (plus I just don't like him anyway. He's not funny. Ever.) And it's also why I just refuse to use the other name. He's Bluestreak and Martin Lawrence can suck it.