The Transformers (IDW, formerly "Robots in Disguise")

[andersonh1]

Some interesting tidbits from interviews with Barber.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=43936

Since issue #1 of "RID," we've been trying to establish a new status quo -- a difficult-to-maintain, tense, post-war peace. The idea has been, from the characters' points of view, to move past war -- to try to live together in some sort of harmony.

As you might guess, Megatron doesn't want that. He wants the old status quo -- he wants war, and he wants to win that war. It's a battle not of Autobot versus Decepticon, but of old versus new.

His plan, though, is big and brutal. The action gets bigger and bigger and just when you think it's as nightmarish as it can be -- it gets worse.

Prowl was my first "Transformers" toy -- he's always been my favorite for that sentimental reason, but I really liked what Simon Furman, Nick Roche and James Roberts had done with him in the IDW universe. Mike Costa had him play a big role in the ongoing series that he wrote, and I loved Mike's take on him a lot. I thought all four of those guys wrote a character who demonstrated a lot of different facets of personality, but to me they all made sense together. So I really wanted to put him through the wringer in "RID." He's my favorite, so he should get the worst of it, right?

Arcee and Starscream have been my favorites to write, but a big part of both of them is that I know what they do in the next few issues, and that's always played a part in why they were doing what they were doing.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/transfor ... 5676140299

Q: Can you say much about your grand plan when you started writing RID? Did you have this time of peace on the re-born Cybertron well plotted out?

JOHN BARBER: Yeah, the big arc of the first year or so, definitely. It’s really about 16 issues that will get you a big climax to the story begun in issue 1. But not an end to the RID saga, I should add. That definitely keeps going!

Like I said, some of it changed a little, but the broad strokes are the same.

There were certain stories I wanted to hit—RID was never meant to be only about the political struggle. I wanted to have a story about somebody coming home trying to fit in on this world; a wilderness story; a story about the city surviving the changed environment of the planet. I feel like we did pretty well hitting those stories and still moving forward with a big, macro story about the power struggle in Iacon.

http://tformers.com/transformers-tramsf ... /news.html

Well, everything with Prowl was planned from the outset, and his actions over the course of the series were very deliberate. I mean, everything he did had to map on to what he was pretending to do, and also on to what he was actually doing.

[Onslaught Six]

See? Barber himself says to at least give him until #16!

[BWprowl]

Transplanting from the FoC comic thread since I know you like to keep things organized:

I will leave this until Barber is done with "Robots in Disguise". But, I am 90% sure that this is going to leave the faction lines more blurred. (The fact that nobody realized that Prowl was mind controlled shows how far gone he was before the mind control was an issue. That is probably kind of the point that Barber was making.)

How the hell are the factions lines 'blurred'? Where in the big stupid fight Barber spent all this time setting up for is there ANYONE on the side you wouldn't expect? All the Decepticons, including Starscream, are rallied behind Megatron, and all the Autobots are united to fight Prowlistator. Ironhide's cavalry team is ALL Autobots. So where the hell is this 'faction blurring' you're talking about? Roberts *could* have had Swindle and Dirge fighting with the Autobots, but he specifically kicked them out before everyone got the the black room, seemingly so the factions would be LESS blurred for the confrontation!

Characters not noticing Prowl was 'acting differently' is shitty writing as a result of Roberts likely back-writing this 'twist' in because his editor-sensibilities made him squeamish about some readers not liking what he was doing until now. You can see it in the way he desperately tries to back-write in Bumblebee suddenly noticing Prowl's been acting weird JUST IN THIS ISSUE.

[Onslaught Six]

Are you at least going to read the next one?

I mean, I get it, you don't feel like it was natural yet--but a lot of people were pissy about the "changes" in AHM and we just kind of sweep those under the rug. Give it the two issues Barber says it needs still.

[Dominic]

Dirge is likely not dead. (If nothing else, Barber likely wants to reveal exactly how much Dirge knew or did not really know, and how right Dirge was or was not.)

Starscream's devious plan to seize power was likely more back-room dealing than retro style back-stabbery.

Characters not noticing Prowl was 'acting differently' is shitty writing as a result of Roberts likely back-writing this 'twist' in because his editor-sensibilities made him squeamish about some readers not liking what he was doing until now. You can see it in the way he desperately tries to back-write in Bumblebee suddenly noticing Prowl's been acting weird JUST IN THIS ISSUE.

Seriously? You are accusing a guy with a track record of (at the very least) competent editing of that kind of hackery? That is low.

I recall a few people at AllSpark guessing that Prowl was shelled months ago. Kudos to them for figuring it out.

Think about it this way. Prowl was acting badly before getting tagged. Before and after he got tagged, it was pointed out (by Barber, through characters on the page) that Prowl was doing exactly the kind of stupid shit that led to the Decepticons forming in the first place. No, why might he have done that? (Maybe...because he was under Decepticon control?) But, that does not give Prowl a pass on what he did before getting tagged by Bombshell.

I am going to put this in large text because the question is being consistently over-looked:

If Prowl was acting badly before being shelled and nobody noticed after he got shelled, how different are the factions?

And, maybe that is where Barber was going the whole fucking time.

[BWprowl]

Are you at least going to read the next one?

I might read a scan of it, but Barber has lost all money from me until further notice.

I mean, I get it, you don't feel like it was natural yet--but a lot of people were pissy about the "changes" in AHM and we just kind of sweep those under the rug. Give it the two issues Barber says it needs still.

The 'changes' in AHM were the result of a different author coming in and telling his story though, that's fine from arc to arc, from writer to writer. With what Barber has done here with RID, he spent ten goddamn issues on what seemed to be amazing concept-based storytelling and character arcs that were refreshing and interesting, then in an instant went "Nope, none of that was legitimate! You weren't supposed to want that sort of development from guys like Prowl or Starscream! You were supposed to want everything clear-cut and boring and status-quo! Aren't you relieved at the revelation that this was all just a clever ruse?" So yeah, fuck that guy.

If Barber had wrapped up his arc legitimately, with the really interesting arcs actually sticking (I need to emphasize just how much I liked where Barber appeared to be going with the 'facade' story. These were pretty much my favorite TF comics ever, of all time.), and then some *other* d-bag had come in and backwritten that stuff because he didn't like it, then that would be fine, because I could separate that as some other guy's story and Barber's arc and his ideas would have still applied. But the way he did it, Barber was just using those ideas as subterfuge the entire time and was never *actually* exploring them and they don't count for anything anymore. If we're having a discussion about Prowl and we want to bring up well-intentioned extremism, I can't use anything from this arc as an example because herp-derp it was just Bombshell the whole time. If we're ever looking for precedent for Starscream going legit, there certainly isn't any here since he had a nefarious plan to betray everyone the whole time, so he'll always just be boring backstabbing Starscream. Any discussion about Transformers as a race predicated towards conflict gains nothing from this story since all the conflict that was building up and the 'madness' that overtook those that split from civilization was just evil Decepticon plans and Megatron's hate-plague-broadcasting macguffin body. You see what I'm saying? All the 'revelations' in the last issue completely invalidated all the ideas that had made me so hooked on the series, and made the whole thing the opposite of interesting.

[BWprowl]

Dirge is likely not dead. (If nothing else, Barber likely wants to reveal exactly how much Dirge knew or did not really know, and how right Dirge was or was not.)

That doesn’t change the fact that Barber shooed him out of the room so he wouldn’t confuse fans who need to see only Autobots fighting only Decepticons.

Seriously? You are accusing a guy with a track record of (at the very least) competent editing of that kind of hackery? That is low.

Something about ducks and how they walk and quack and calling things what they are.

I recall a few people at AllSpark guessing that Prowl was shelled months ago. Kudos to them for figuring it out.

Those were people like Anderson who were hoping that Prowl wasn’t actually undergoing any meaningful or interesting character development because it was scary to them to see a ‘good guy’ going down that road. And they turned out to be right, because apparently Barber feels the same way. So yeah, kudos to the clichés all around.

Think about it this way. Prowl was acting badly before getting tagged. Before and after he got tagged, it was pointed out (by Barber, through characters on the page) that Prowl was doing exactly the kind of stupid shit that led to the Decepticons forming in the first place. No, why might he have done that? (Maybe...because he was under Decepticon control?) But, that does not give Prowl a pass on what he did before getting tagged by Bombshell.

Which was basically on the same level as what he’d done in AHM and LSotW. Which we thought this arc was the culmination of, was finally the payoff to. It turned out not to be, it was just using Prowl as a mechanic for Bombshell to enact his evil scheme and Megatron to make a new Super-Gestalt. And now we’ll never get that sort of payoff for Prowl since they already faked that story once as subterfuge for this one.

If Prowl was acting badly before being shelled and nobody noticed after he got shelled, how different are the factions?

First off, it has nothing to do with how different the factions are. It actually separates them more, if anything. This story that Barber turned out to actually be telling here showed that Decepticons are all sneaky, subterfuge-using schemers, like Starscream, and trusting them will always be a mistake. This is to lead into Metalhawk throwing in with the Autobots, who he sees as the upright, honest Good Guys they are (pointed out by Bumblebee, again, just in this issue, taking note that the things Prowl was doing were not ‘Autobot-like’ and everyone agreeing with him). There was not blurring of the faction’s principles or anything like that, the Decepticons are still evil Bad Guys who want to TAKE OVER THE WORLD and the Autobots have to fight for right and freedom and to beat them.

And, maybe that is where Barber was going the whole fucking time.

And the story he was taking all this time to get to was exponentially less interesting than the one he set up as a façade to obscure his real point. And that’s a critical mistake, you don’t pull a vastly better story out from under the audience to tell them a ‘real’ story that sucks, no matter how ‘surprising’ it is when you do it.

[andersonh1]

Those were people like Anderson who were hoping that Prowl wasn’t actually undergoing any meaningful or interesting character development because it was scary to them to see a ‘good guy’ going down that road. And they turned out to be right, because apparently Barber feels the same way. So yeah, kudos to the clichés all around.

I take some offense to this mischaracterization. I haven't been sitting around hoping Prowl wasn't getting any character development. I've been reading this book month after month being unhappy that Prowl had become a fascist thug, no better than the Decepticons he supposedly hates. That wasn't character development, that was character destruction. I'm delighted that it turned out to be Bombshell the whole time, and I look forward to seeing Prowl grow and change after being put through the ringer the way he has been. That will be genuine character development.

And the story he was taking all this time to get to was exponentially less interesting than the one he set up as a façade to obscure his real point. And that’s a critical mistake, you don’t pull a vastly better story out from under the audience to tell them a ‘real’ story that sucks, no matter how ‘surprising’ it is when you do it.

The story we've been given is vastly better than the "Prowl descends to the dark side" type of story that you wanted to read. Decepticons are acting like Decepticons, using deceit, subterfuge and infiltration to destabilize society to take over. Sounds like consistency and continuity to me, and I love that I didn't see it coming.

[Onslaught Six]

Those were people like Anderson who were hoping that Prowl wasn’t actually undergoing any meaningful or interesting character development because it was scary to them to see a ‘good guy’ going down that road. And they turned out to be right, because apparently Barber feels the same way. So yeah, kudos to the clichés all around.

I take some offense to this mischaracterization. I haven't been sitting around hoping Prowl wasn't getting any character development. I've been reading this book month after month being unhappy that Prowl had become a fascist thug, no better than the Decepticons he supposedly hates. That wasn't character development, that was character destruction. I'm delighted that it turned out to be Bombshell the whole time, and I look forward to seeing Prowl grow and change after being put through the ringer the way he has been. That will be genuine character development.

The story we've been given is vastly better than the "Prowl descends to the dark side" type of story that you wanted to read. Decepticons are acting like Decepticons, using deceit, subterfuge and infiltration to destabilize society to take over. Sounds like consistency and continuity to me, and I love that I didn't see it coming.

I respectfully disagree with this entire post.

...I mean, seriously, when has Prowl ever been a generic, happy-go-lucky good guy? I could understand if it was, like, Bumblebee doing this. But Prowl is supposed to be the shady guy. His appearance in MTMTE 14 is entirely consistent with his previous issues of RID.

I also don't understand how one can be a "fascist thug," but whatever.

[andersonh1]

I respectfully disagree with this entire post.

...I mean, seriously, when has Prowl ever been a generic, happy-go-lucky good guy? I could understand if it was, like, Bumblebee doing this. But Prowl is supposed to be the shady guy. His appearance in MTMTE 14 is entirely consistent with his previous issues of RID.

Who ever said he was a "generic, happy go lucky good guy"? Not me. He doesn't have to be that in order to uphold some basic moral standards, surely.

And Bumblebee blew Horri-bull's head off in issue #1. He's not much better.

I also don't understand how one can be a "fascist thug," but whatever.

Fascism: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control. Severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition. Megatron is a fascist, and a would-be dictator. The fact that Prowl had apparently started heading towards the same goal (his protestations to Bumblebee that he would win an election notwithstanding, many dictators hold "elections") made him look similarly fascist to me. He may not have overtly been seeking to gain power, but he was acting as a law unto himself. "Thug" is the term I applied to him since he was apparently going around summarily executing Decepticons at-will, as well as engineering a situation where they would riot, allowing him to mop things up. "Decepticons, I invite you to resist" and all that.