Sunstreaker & Sideswipe Question

[BWprowl]

Anyway, my main bit is that I just don't like all Decepticons being instantly pigeonholed as being 'designed' to be war machines. It makes them hollow and boring. "I'm with the bad guys because I was built with machine guns on my arms!"

That could actually make for an interesting character, if done right. You'd have a character who looked at themselves and decided they were built for conflict and warfare. Thus, they side with the Decepticons to keep said conflict going and justify their own existence.

Aw crap, actually, that kinda sounds like Gaara from Naruto, who's pretty high up on my List of Things that I Hate. So forget it.

[onslaught86]

That could actually make for an interesting character, if done right. You'd have a character who looked at themselves and decided they were built for conflict and warfare. Thus, they side with the Decepticons to keep said conflict going and justify their own existence.

"To live is to fight. To die is to stop."

- Superion, most interestingly.

I'm certain there are several more recent characters that fit the bill 'exactly', though, ones that believe they will have no purpose if the war ends, so they seek to continue the war. Must look into this.

[Onslaught Six]

I dunno, most of the Movie Decepticons--the largest glut of truly new characters we've gotten--are pretty much insane psychopaths who can care less for the actual act of war and simply want to destroy things. Megatron doesn't have a trained army of soldiers--he has escapees from an asylum.

[onslaught86]

Tankorr Smash. Heh. Only not.

That was the most disappointing part of the movie toys, I felt - good bios were very few and far between. We know what Hasbro's writing team are capable of, and have some excellent characters here and there, but most of the Movie 'cons were as bland and boring as their on-screen counterparts. Sigh.

[138 Scourge]

"To live is to fight. To die is to stop."

- Superion, most interestingly.

Dear Superion. Stop. Love, Scourge.

Doesn't Roadbuster kinda have this vibe going on, too?

[Dominic]

[quote="JediTricks/]

Bullshit, the use of weapons on Syria's part is only retaliation for the use of weapons on the terrorist's part, which was an evil act to begin with. The greater power was used to squelch the lesser, but only through the employment of the tools of evil because that was the forceful, quickest way to deal with a problem - there's nothing morally superior about using violence to halt violence, in of itself.[/quote]

Ah, but retaliation has moral weight as well. If nothing else, forceful retaliation can deter future attacks. (Think of how the world saw the USSR after WWII. After what they took at Stalingrad and gave at Berlin, nobody wanted to fight them.) Of course, Hama was not a punitive raid. It was a defensive raid. A hostile group had taken a city, and was unlikely to stop there if they could get away with it. The destruction of that city was comparable to blowing up a tank factory or troops massed on one's border. Had Assad not destroyed Hama, he would be (rightly) damned as the Arab world's Chamberlain.

In TF terms, Beachcomber has been portrayed as fighting in order to bring the war to a speedy and decisive end.

Megatron doesn't have a trained army of soldiers--he has escapees from an asylum.

And, that is a quote if I ever saw one.

You are right of course. Barricade is probably the smartest Decepticon in the movie, and he (according to source material) gets off on crushing hopes and dreams. His disguise has utilitarian value, but his character entry notes that he enjoys the despair of his victims as their hopes and assumptions about a just world are crushed.

Prowl, albeit it to his chagrin, stumbled upon something. Some Decepticons might favor warfare to justify their existence. Thundercracker is listed in the original sourcebook as needing something to believe in. Of course, Autobots like Sandstorm have a similar dynamic.

If we assume TF is soft sci-fi (not unreasonably), and that TFs think like people on many things, we can assume that they (like most people) try to shape their world to favor their interests.

Chronic malcontents simply want to tear down whatever the status quo is. (cough, cough, Christoopher Hitchens in real-life, or Sideways in TF.)

Others may simply be happy with the status quo and operate rationally within it. Onslaught is a good example. He could easily be an Autobot. But, he works for the Decepticons for some other reason. Swindle probably has no great attachment to war, but if there is a war, he would rather be with the Decepticons as they would likely be more tolerant of graft than the Autobots. Along similar lines, "Cybertron" Thunderblast (the Minicon) is an Autobot despite his similarities to Onslaught and Hubcap is an Autobot because the Decepticons would probably shoot him for being lax.

People may seek to justify their existence based on station and circumstances of birth. But, many TFs would likely attempt to justify it based on their construction. Of course, there are some who are contrary to their construction, G1 Frenzy, G1 Swoop or "Armada" Armorhide come to mind.

Dom

[CrossRook]

Well I think Swindle is a green-collar type guy. He needs the war to sell someone arms, just as the Quintessons did. Siding with the aggressors in the conflict just serves to further his profits.
Onslaught I have no honest idea. Maybe Megatron's propaganda got to him, or perhaps the old Autobot regime somehow did great offense to him. Though as a Combaticon first and a Decepticon second, it does seem that his priorities lie with himself and his teammates/friends/comrades-in-arms.

[onslaught86]

I'd think with Onslaught, the Decepticon tendancy toward the offensive vs. the Autobot defensive is likely to be a more stimulating environment for his strategies - more pro-active in planning raids and capture of assets, the Autobots have never been shown as a particularly co-ordinated military machine. This, of course, just breeds more possibilities when it comes to the Combaticons' imprisonment.

Certain interpretations of Shockwave would fit fine with the Autobots, too. I did always like the idea that the more scientific minds amongst the factions would keep in neutral contact with one another. Picture Shockwave and Perceptor playing chess via encrypted email.

[Dominic]

Swindle's old file card indicate he is pretty open to what he sells though. He sells guns because there is a market for them. But, if he could sell biscuits or blenders, he would do that just as happily. War is a prospect for him, not a goal. And, if you look at old episodes of G1, he is not conceptually against selling to both sides, as seen in "Ultimate Weapon".

I can see the idea about Onslaught joining the Decepticons our of boredom. I know boredom was given as the reason one of Rapid Run's Minicons went rogue. (This was in the club magazine, but it was well written enough suprisingly.)

I do not see members of one faction or the other playing chess. They may work together for a larger goal, but socializing would be another issue. Given the economics of warfare, there would have to be a certain level of non-utilitarian animosity. (In the DW run, Shockwave was shown to be attempting to work around this. And, in "Reign of Starscream", Starscream is looking to do the same thing.) The closest I can recall seeing to that is with the "Cybertron" Minicons. Thunderblast and Skylynx seemed to have a personal rivalry that could have been a friendship under other circumstances.

Skywarp and Thundercracker were shown in DW as being sensible about their faction choice. (In "War and Peace", one of them says something like, "We go with the side more likely to win.")

I would like to see a short story using Sandstorm. Read that Autobot's techspecs. (He fears the end of the war.)


Dom
-cannot get quote boxes to work for some reason....

[JediTricks]

For whatever reason, reading the responses here, the only thing I felt compelled to ask is, do merge teams ever kick someone off the team and bring in a different guy who better fits their philosophy?