All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

[Sparky Prime]

...No, it does matter how good the story is. If a story is as good as AHM, I can ignore if it's in continuity or not, especially if I didn't give a crap about the continuity it's trying to fit into.

Again, that's really your own continuity, your own opinion.

[Onslaught Six]

No, it's me taking the fiction at face value and not worrying if it fits with some comics that Furman wrote that range in quality from decent to shit.

Like I said--I can grab this book and read it and thoroughly enjoy it without reading 'anything else,' and that is far more important than whether it fits with anything else.

[Sparky Prime]

No, it's me taking the fiction at face value and not worrying if it fits with some comics that Furman wrote that range in quality from decent to shit.

Like I said--I can grab this book and read it and thoroughly enjoy it without reading 'anything else,' and that is far more important than whether it fits with anything else.

So you don't care if it fits in with the larger picture. But that's you. Other fans want to see how it fits in with the larger continuity it's supposed to be a part of. And either way, it's something the writer really should take into consideration when writing it in the first place.

[Dominic]

I can partially agree with what Sparky is saying here. As much as I like idea-driven stories, context and continuity are important. And, given that "Transformer" comics tend to be event-driven, context is even more important.

Along similar lines, when one is writing for a shared franchise, it is both good manners and good editorial sense to acknowledge previous work. On the other hand, industry standard now is to ignore previous context. And, Furman has never been particularly strong on that, at times being unable to stay consistent with his own work.

But, in the case of "All Hail Megatron", I get the feeling that IDW was trying to get as far away from the "__________ -ion" arcs as possible. The plots were generally aimless, and Furman's worst habits were coming out by the end of "Escalation". Considering all that the franchise has had going for it since '07, "Transformers" as a whole was making a poor showing at comic stores.

At this point, it is important to simply get a good TF book out. IDW can deal with continuity issues later. So long as they do not leave it to us to figure it out, that is fine. (If IDW resolves these questions in the next 6 months or so, I will be happy.)

Dom

[Sparky Prime]

On the other hand, industry standard now is to ignore previous context.

I wouldn't say it's the "industry standard" to ignore previous context. Granted, it happens, but I believe most writers come up with ways to rework or work around previous context that doesn't fit their story with out completely ignoring it.

Unless you're Marvel working on Amazing Spider-Man. They somehow manged to come up with a story that reworks previous context, works around it, and ignore it all at the same time.

The plots were generally aimless

There I would disagree. Each arc was building the bigger picture. Unfortunately, Furman's pacing with this overall story was really slow and as a result, IDW decided to change gears and go with AHM instead, which is even slower in my opinion.

[Dominic]

It is not just the pacing, it is the direction. Furman was not taking the "_____-ion" book anywhere because he had no place to take them. Furman had nothing to say beyong "hey, look, TFs doin' stuff". Furman cannot write more than a few issues without reverting to his worst habits.

McCarthy, on the other hand, at least seems to have something to say in AHM.

Dom

[andersonh1]

Continuity that's solid and consistent is important for the willing suspension of disbelief. I'll use the Star Trek Voyager series, which I'm currently watching on DVD, as an example.

Voyager is a show that deliberately played fast and loose with established continuity in later seasons. The creators of the show have said as much. Their only goal was to produce a weekly episode that a viewer could tune in, watch, and tune out, without ever having to know what had come before or since. That might work well for the casual viewer, but there are a number of problems with that approach that would also translate over to Transformer comics, or any long running series for that matter.

- Characters become archetypes rather than actual characters with thoughts, opinions and history. If continuity is an afterthought, then characters generally have to remain static, so that anyone tuning in at any time can recognize them right away. To some extent Transformers characters already fall into the 'archetype' category, but from time to time some manage to escape this.
- when characters don't grow and develop, eventually the writers run out of things to say or do with them. They simply become cogs in the gears of the plot, carried along by whatever the plot requires them to do to get that plot from point A to point B. This can result in the characters taking actions that are simply impossible to believe or reconcile with past attitudes.
- The reader is denied the satisfaction of ongoing character arcs and storylines. Characters that don't grow stagnate, as I mentioned before.
- Events contradict what came before. Nothing is more frustrating that watching a character in a story make a statement or take an action that directly contradicts something that's already been established. Internal consistency helps maintain belivability, while contradiction pulls the reader/viewer right out of the story.

Now, there's nothing wrong with taking a break from established continuity and heading in a new direction, providing that a believable reason can be provided in the fictional context of the story. I don't have a problem with retcons that work, if the change to a character or plot is worth it. So I'm not arguing for continuity as a straightjacket, just that it should be consistent, and that any changes be explained in a reasonable way.

[Onslaught Six]

At this point, it is important to simply get a good TF book out. IDW can deal with continuity issues later. So long as they do not leave it to us to figure it out, that is fine. (If IDW resolves these questions in the next 6 months or so, I will be happy.)

It looked like they would be answered in the latter half of AHM itself, but that's looking less likely as it goes on, especially since IDW has pointed out there'll be an entire follow-up/prequel series (tenatively known as AHM Coda, I guess) to explain this crap.

I'm not disagreeing that continuity is somewhat important, but only when the original continuity it's supposed to fit into is worth a damn. Nobody bothered worrying about the continuity differences between Armada/Energon and Cybertron because 'those were horrible cartoons.'

- Characters become archetypes rather than actual characters with thoughts, opinions and history. If continuity is an afterthought, then characters generally have to remain static, so that anyone tuning in at any time can recognize them right away. To some extent Transformers characters already fall into the 'archetype' category, but from time to time some manage to escape this.

There's definitely a sense that AHM is Doing Something With These Guys, though. We've got the Is Mirage A Traitor thing going on, which--while slightly overdone--is at least being done 'well.' All those other times it happened, Ironhide didn't 'nearly kill' Mirage.

- when characters don't grow and develop, eventually the writers run out of things to say or do with them. They simply become cogs in the gears of the plot, carried along by whatever the plot requires them to do to get that plot from point A to point B. This can result in the characters taking actions that are simply impossible to believe or reconcile with past attitudes.

And this was more 'Furman's' problem than anything else. Granted, McCarthy is kind of doing that with Kup, but I guess he recovered from...being insane? They could always have flashed his memory from an earlier backup or some crap.

- Events contradict what came before. Nothing is more frustrating that watching a character in a story make a statement or take an action that directly contradicts something that's already been established. Internal consistency helps maintain belivability, while contradiction pulls the reader/viewer right out of the story.

"Oh, man, walking around on Cybertron totally hurts, but we've never shown it before, because...well, honestly, that was just a stupid plot device anyway to give the Autobots a reason to be on Earth in the crappy way we started this continuity. Which we only did because we were trying to point out that we weren't Dreamwave, or proper G1, or anything. Hell, you may as well expect Megatron to become Galvatron in a couple years."

[Dominic]

"Stormbringer" showed that Cybertron was becoming habitable again.

As far as continuity and context go, I agree that they are important. My biggest problem with DC Comics right now is that they are being deliberately ephemeral and writing like they do not expect anything to stick.

But, I think one of the main things IDW wanted to do with "All Hail Megatron" was break with their old continuity, specifically because it was aimless. Aside from some of the "Spotlight" books, and a few nice moments in the main book, there was nothing to recommend "Transformers". For a book relating to a huge movie releases, its sales were terrible. (I knew more than one shop that could not get rid of TF comics despite their best efforts.)

Along the lines of what O6 was saying, AHM has plenty of characterization and progression for the plot. So long as IDW resolves the continuity issues in the not too distant future, there is no reason to complain. I expect the stories that reconile these questions will be tedious, but they are necessary. Marvel used to run that kind of story in their annuals. Skilled writers like Gruenwald could make them more interesting than the main stories they bridged. The standard now is to try to reconcile stories that would have fit if they had been planned even a little beforehand. (Look at current DC for examples of this.)

IDW seems to have a plan, which makes many of theier sins forgivable.

Dom

[Onslaught Six]

"Stormbringer" showed that Cybertron was becoming habitable again.

See, I wouldn't know that, because I didn't read that.

Along the lines of what O6 was saying, AHM has plenty of characterization and progression for the plot. So long as IDW resolves the continuity issues in the not too distant future, there is no reason to complain. I expect the stories that reconile these questions will be tedious, but they are necessary. Marvel used to run that kind of story in their annuals. Skilled writers like Gruenwald could make them more interesting than the main stories they bridged. The standard now is to try to reconcile stories that would have fit if they had been planned even a little beforehand. (Look at current DC for examples of this.)

IDW seems to have a plan, which makes many of theier sins forgivable.

Yes. It's important to look at it in terms of In Comparison To Other Comics.

On the other hand, Atomic Robo has a totally united continuity and frequently jumps around in places inside of that continuity. It's non-linear and yet you 'so much' understand where everything's supposed to be, and everything's all spiffy and self-contained and good.