Transformers: Unicron (discussion and speculation)

[Dominic]

I'm just not seeing your reasoning for saying he has done more than any other writer to make TF "every generic comic". How so?

It started with "Dark Cybertron", which was "Transformers: Event". What changes happened during "Dark Cybertron" were off-set by other things being set back to traditional stasis quo. And, it has gotten worse since then, including resetting Starscream and Shockwave. Barber is the writer most closely associated with that sort of thing.

(I hope that I am wrong about Starscream. But, that is unlikely.)

A few follow-up series that just ended up being cancelled I'd hardly call the "foundation of their next phase" when they had no baring on the vast majority of their stories. The Marvel 616 universe basically just went back to the way it always was.

I subscribe to the (fairly common) theory that Marvel got cold feet towards the end of "Secret Wars", and dialed back some of the changes. (Some of this was for the best. But, some of the cancelled series were meant to have more staying power.)

[Shockwave]

See, I think the exact opposite. The kind of crap that happens in the big two are the kind of shenanegans I haven't seen in TF. They've managed to shake up the status quo and actually, "Dark Cybertron" was good example of that. Bumblebee and Shockwave died and stayed dead. Other characters that had gone through changes had those changes stick (like Prowl with Devastator). They also didn't pull the usual "But what REALLY happened was this..." schtick that is the eternal rebooting that Marvel and DC seem stuck in (DC in particular). It seems like it's just now at the end that they're starting to pull the usual comics bs. Much as I love those characters, I'm kinda pissed that Shockwave and Bumblebee are back, with little to no explanation. I know, we got one for Shockwave... sort of.

[Dominic]

Bumblebee and Shockwave are both back, and back to mid-80s spec. IDW broke with real-time with "Dark Cybertron". And, do not forget that Ironhide and Sunstreaker rejoined the Autobots before "Dark Cybertron".


This is exactly the stasis quo that Marvel and DC have.

[Shockwave]

Bumblebee and Shockwave are both back, and back to mid-80s spec. IDW broke with real-time with "Dark Cybertron". And, do not forget that Ironhide and Sunstreaker rejoined the Autobots before "Dark Cybertron". This is exactly the stasis quo that Marvel and DC have.

They are now, but they weren't after Dark Cybertron and not bringing them back until the last 5 issues still seems different to me. Not sure what you mean about "real time". This is comics, not an episode of "24". Yeah, they rejoined the Autobots, but they had still been affected by their experiences.

[Sparky Prime]

It started with "Dark Cybertron", which was "Transformers: Event". What changes happened during "Dark Cybertron" were off-set by other things being set back to traditional stasis quo. And, it has gotten worse since then, including resetting Starscream and Shockwave. Barber is the writer most closely associated with that sort of thing.

(I hope that I am wrong about Starscream. But, that is unlikely.)

What things got set back to the "traditional" status quo with Dark Cybertron? The war between Autobots and Decepticons was still over. Starscream was still the officially elected leader of Cybertron. It finally resolved the Regenesis Ores plot. Megatron became an Autobot and agreed to stand trial for his crimes... If anything, it pushed things even further away from the traditional status quo.

I subscribe to the (fairly common) theory that Marvel got cold feet towards the end of "Secret Wars", and dialed back some of the changes. (Some of this was for the best. But, some of the cancelled series were meant to have more staying power.)

I honestly don't think Marvel ever had any intentions on making any changes, other than eliminating the Ultimate universe since that line had been declining ever since Ultimatum. Marvel over the past decade has made it a habit of doing these events just for the sake of controversy, with the story not actually amounting to much or getting undone within a year.

They've managed to shake up the status quo and actually, "Dark Cybertron" was good example of that. Bumblebee and Shockwave died and stayed dead. Other characters that had gone through changes had those changes stick (like Prowl with Devastator). They also didn't pull the usual "But what REALLY happened was this..." schtick that is the eternal rebooting that Marvel and DC seem stuck in (DC in particular).

I have to agree. Barber has been good about having consequences stick in Transformers.

Much as I love those characters, I'm kinda pissed that Shockwave and Bumblebee are back, with little to no explanation. I know, we got one for Shockwave... sort of.

Well they are still in the middle of the storyline that's bringing them back...

[Dominic]

Starscream was still the officially elected leader of Cybertron. It finally resolved the Regenesis Ores plot. Megatron became an Autobot and agreed to stand trial for his crimes... If anything, it pushed things even further away from the traditional status quo.

Optimus came back. Sunstreaker and Ironhide came back.

It was like a big two comic. For every temporary change, an old change was undone.

honestly don't think Marvel ever had any intentions on making any changes, other than eliminating the Ultimate universe since that line had been declining ever since Ultimatum. Marvel over the past decade has made it a habit of doing these events just for the sake of controversy, with the story not actually amounting to much or getting undone within a year.

Quesada and Breevort are both known to have disliked the formalized multiverse. It would not just have been Ultimate that went away. (Marvel has backed off on this, going so far as to bring even Ultimate back.)

Well they are still in the middle of the storyline that's bringing them back...

They point is that they should not be back.

[Sparky Prime]

Optimus came back. Sunstreaker and Ironhide came back.

It was like a big two comic. For every temporary change, an old change was undone.

Optimus had simply left the planet, we all knew he'd be back. Sunstreaker had been on the Lost Light, which briefly returned to Cybertron allowing several few characters to leave the ship, as well as to join the crew when it left again. And Ironhide had been living in the wilderness of Cybertron. Again, I'm not seeing how any of that 'undid' anything, or was anything like a big two comic.

Quesada and Breevort are both known to have disliked the formalized multiverse. It would not just have been Ultimate that went away. (Marvel has backed off on this, going so far as to bring even Ultimate back.)

There is a lot that Quesada doesn't like. But there is absolutely no way Marvel would have gotten rid of the 616 universe. Ultimate was the only thing that was dying with only one successful comic left to keep it going. And Ultimate isn't back, not really. I mean, sure, they showed a version of it is back in Spider-Men 2, but it's clearly not the same universe it had been before, and there are no stories taking place within that universe.

They point is that they should not be back.

Bumblebee never really left. He has been appearing to Starscream as a 'ghost' ever since Dark Cybertron. We all knew something more was going on there.

[andersonh1]

I was waiting to see what you guys thought of the book before I decided whether to buy it or not. I still haven't made up my mind.

Seriously, $4.99? Is it worth that much?

[Shockwave]

Optimus was never really gone, he just went by his previous name for a while. Ironhide was back, but missing millions of years worth of memories, that's not returning to status quo. Same with Sunstreaker, sure, he was rebuilt, but he was still crippled and vastly different character wise from before. Again, that's building off of the changes that they'd made, not undoing them. If that had been done by Marvel, it would have come out that the thing that killed Ironhide instead sent him back in time and kept him the same age or in stasis or some crap until "current" time when he miraculously comes back. Sunstreaker's return would have had Sideswipe painting himself yellow and calling himself Sunswipe until Sunstreaker came back, beat him until he turned back to his original color for some convoluted reason and then they would have resumed like nothing happened. That's the kind of nonsense we see from Marvel. DC is worse. If DC had been running this, Unicron would show up every year to tell us that Ironhide and Sunstreaker hadn't actually died, that instead it was Huffer and Brawn and they died from something else entirely. Then the next year Huffer and Brawn would be back due to the Quintessons opening portals to other realities. That. That is the kind of dumb crap that the big two pull that IDW hasn't. At least until now and I think I could tolerate for a few last issues.

[Dominic]

Seriously, $4.99? Is it worth that much?

Maybe?

Quantitatively, sure. It has the page count and paper stock to justify the slight price-bump.

Qualitatively, it depends. How much are you monetizing for being able to discuss the current event comic (rather than just reading about it)? That art is not bad. But, the writing is just what it is.

Optimus had simply left the planet, we all knew he'd be back. Sunstreaker had been on the Lost Light, which briefly returned to Cybertron allowing several few characters to leave the ship, as well as to join the crew when it left again. And Ironhide had been living in the wilderness of Cybertron. Again, I'm not seeing how any of that 'undid' anything, or was anything like a big two comic.

Sunstreaker and Ironhide are both back with the Autobots, like nothing happened. Starscream is out of jail, and back to being a bad-guy. Shockwave and Kup are back from....

But there is absolutely no way Marvel would have gotten rid of the 616 universe.

Speculation was that the core Marvel universe was going to be more like the movies, visually and with revised character origins. "Squadron Supreme" (one of the many failed titles) was initially written with the explicit premise that the multiverse was gone (complete with fuzzing out details from Hickman's lead-in to "Secret Wars"). Marvel started scaling back the changes before "Secret Wars" ended.

"Web-Warriors" included a multi-verse (but recognized that some of it was damaged), and followed directly from one of the "Secret Wars" tie-ins. "Old Man Logan" is still running. And, some people speculate that "Contest of Champions" was originally supposed to be the source for alternate universe characters. (That series was the stupidest fun ever.)

And Ultimate isn't back, not really. I mean, sure, they showed a version of it is back in Spider-Men 2, but it's clearly not the same universe it had been before, and there are no stories taking place within that universe.

Ultimates also showed up in the Al Ewing series of the same name, and more recently in .....something or another. My guess is that somebody at Marvel (likely Ewing) had a plan to bring back Ultimate (if not as an imprint, as a setting).

If that had been done by Marvel, it would have come out that the thing that killed Ironhide instead sent him back in time and kept him the same age or in stasis or some crap until "current" time when he miraculously comes back. Sunstreaker's return would have had Sideswipe painting himself yellow and calling himself Sunswipe until Sunstreaker came back, beat him until he turned back to his original color for some convoluted reason and then they would have resumed like nothing happened.

That latter sounds more like DC. But, honestly, both companies are becoming more and more similar every day.

. That is the kind of dumb crap that the big two pull that IDW hasn't. At least until now and I think I could tolerate for a few last issues.

IDW will be there in 5 years. Mark my words.