September/October Hauls

[JediTricks]

Bugger me off and call me Sally, then.

I'd rather not.

In some states in the South, I'm still not considered "white". As Harvey Korman said...

Well, yeah. Look at the Avengers--an entire team of white muscly dudes and (now) two women, neither of which are getting their own solo movie anytime soon, who frequently get the shaft in the toylines. DC isn't much better, especially when they pass up perfectly fine characters in Hawkgirl and John Stewart for Hawkman (who cares) and Hal Jordan (again) for the sake of...having more white guys, I guess?

Yeah. The lack of Black Widow product is utterly ridiculous at the merch level, half the audience is women and they want product! If they had made a Black Widow movie after the first Avengers movie, it would have been gangbusters, now it's too late.

I was going to say something shitty about Age of Nothin Avengers ending with a token black guy on the team, but it's not entirely fair since there's still Nick Fury in the first movie as a major player.

DC has an actress playing Hawkgirl in the upcoming DC's Legends of Tomorrow series who I think is Puerto Rican, she looks somewhat hispanic and black, but hasn't stated outright (she's from Pennsylvania, looking up someone's ethnicity is really gross btw, I dunno how hatemongers do this so easily, I guess the humanity angle doesn't matter to them), the network liked her so much they almost gave her an immediate spin-off series; Iris West is played by a black actor on The Flash as is her father, Det. Joe West; and Kid Flash will be coming this season and of course he'll be played by a black actor too since his character is related to them; another main The Flash character also has a hispanic actor playing DC former-embarrassment-character Cisco Ramon (aka '80s hispanic breakdancer superhero Vibe, thankfully not like that on the show). Arrow, one of the main characters, John Diggle, is black (even if he is surrounded by a sea of white folk). Supergirl will have a secondary main character in Jimmy Olsen being played by a black actor. DC had a half-Asian actor playing Superman in the '90s on TV in Lois & Clark. And in movies, we don't know that much about the future but one we do know, Suicide Squad, has a significant character in Deadshot being portrayed by Will Smith, as well as Viola Davis as Amanda Waller, and a black actor playing Croc; a hispanic character El Diablo (who I thought was a vigilante hero, so I dunno what the role will entail); and Katana portrayed by an Asian actress. So while DC doesn't have ethnic-starring solo films slated yet, it's obvious they're way more progressive in this department than our friends at Marvel.

I cannot believe how photoshopped that looks. It literally looks like it's from an entirely different photo.

It's your brain trying to make sense of Adam Driver in that part. The shot is authentic, taken by Annie Leibovitz, she doesn't muck about with bullshit in her photos from what I've seen.

Looks more like he just has a plain coat over the standard Admiral uniform that Tarkin and such were wearing in the original films.

The tunic has a traditional collar, nobody had collars like that in Star Wars except Lando (his ESB cloak, his end of ESB shirt, his general uniform in ROTJ). The coat isn't that plain, it has the First Order emblem and some rank stripes near the cuffs.

I mean, I dunno. We have yet to see everything that happens in the films (as Shocktrek says) so we'll see where it goes. I don't mind it being a little grounded--many of the prequel outfits were a little too "standard Jedi-y" for my tastes, everyone in those movies was either in a brown robe or a browner, darker robe.

Aww, weak sauce! You may not want to judge a book on its cover, but surely you can judge a cover on its cover. And the prequels got everything wrong, so let's not go there.

I already have the Vader! It's the Threepio and Artoo I need, and Chewie and weird Han Solo/Obi Wan guy I need.

I meant the larger line they were from, not the McQ Vader, just the ROTJ Vader the mid '00s. 3PO and R2 were SW Celebration 4 exclusives, they had a mountain left over, there shouldn't be trouble getting them. The McQ Obi-Wan/Yoda figure was SDCC '07 so they may be harder to get, but you might be meaning the Han Solo figure with the beard, that and Chewie were mass retail and unfortunately very popular. Hasbro released a boxed set not too long ago, but it appears you're already elbow-deep so it's probably too late.

[andersonh1]

So while DC doesn't have ethnic-starring solo films slated yet, it's obvious they're way more progressive in this department than our friends at Marvel.

They're doing it in the most annoying way possible with Jimmy Olsen and Wally West, by race-flipping existing characters in order to fill their diversity quota. At least with Hawkgirl they're going with the third version, Kendra Saunders, who is Hispanic so the casting fits. John Diggle is a great character on Arrow, and he's also an ORIGINAL minority character. That's the route DC should be taking.

[Dominic]

It turns out he's hispanic, but this presents an interesting lesson in racial identity. Middle Easterners, including Israelis, are caucasians, but because they're more swarthy we think of them as a different race. Poe Dameron is played by Oscar Isaac - who is of Guatemalan and Cuban parents (and apparently one of his grandparents is French), born in Guatemala and raised in Florida, and he seems "vaguely" ethnic but is clearly less brown/Native American than other hispanics, so he probably has more of that caucasian about him, and then he uses his middle name as a more Euro-centric public identity. It's confusing to be white.

This is why I hate bean-counting, be it for characters/cast or creators.

For example, "Catwoman" was not a bad movie because of Hallie Berrie (sp?). It was bad movie because it was terrible. (Never saw it. But, I heard very little good things about it.) The one good thing I heard about it was about Hallie Berrie, specifically "Hallie Berrie wearing revealing leather".

Some actors are better for roles contingent on their race. (Sorry, but having Heimdale played by a black guy in "Thor" made the movie look like "community center basement productions Thor".)

In comic, people bean count. I am sick of hearing about Kamala Kahn. That book is basically "Marvel does Archie". It has nothing other than "you like this likable character and her pleasant adventures". But, you have to like it because the book has a Muslim as the lead character.

DC had a half-Asian actor playing Superman in the '90s on TV in Lois & Clark.

And, my point is proven. Show sucked. Counting beans does not change that.

as well as Viola Davis as Amanda Waller,

If she weighs less than 200 pounds, to hell with her. (Waller is supposed to be "the Wall". Being a large and imposing woman is a key part of her schtick.)

has a significant character in Deadshot being portrayed by Will Smith,

Smith? I dunno. Maybe.

So while DC doesn't have ethnic-starring solo films slated yet, it's obvious they're way more progressive in this department than our friends at Marvel.

It only counts if the movies/shows are good.

Well, yeah. Look at the Avengers--an entire team of white muscly dudes and (now) two women, neither of which are getting their own solo movie anytime soon, who frequently get the shaft in the toylines.

Hasbro's arguement about the toys is that nobody will buy the girls. With the modern figures, they might have a point. When I was a kid, I wanted the whole team. (Princess Leia spent as much time fighting and falling on the couch as Luke and Han when I was a kid. Zarana was a terrible threat to my Joes.) But, every piece of data that the toy companies use say that I was a weird kid (and this is supported by fact, I was a weird kid).

Older fans will buy toys of female characters. But, how many older fans are going to waste money on crap like those new "Avengers" toys? (Hasbro did release a "Legends" Black Widow, for those who are fans of "Winter Soldier".)

Bugger me off and call me Sally, then.

Scourge and I will call you whatever we want. (That will probably be something we can make "fit" in a song.)

DC has an actress playing Hawkgirl in the upcoming DC's Legends of Tomorrow series who I think is Puerto Rican, she looks somewhat hispanic and black, but hasn't stated outright (she's from Pennsylvania, looking up someone's ethnicity is really gross btw, I dunno how hatemongers do this so easily, I guess the humanity angle doesn't matter to them),

I tend to think that racism is a variant of the "Polar Express Effect" ("that thing is just enough like me, but just different enough, which is unsettling because it might be a predator looking to attack me"). Not saying it is an excuse. But, it might be causally relevant.

Fun fact: bi-racial people can often be seen as "hotter", because they end up with more generalized features and universal sings of vitality. That is why the ladies love the Rock so much. Or, why Sasha Banks is so damned attractive. (I have met her in person. She is legitimately stunning. As in "ohmygodlookather".)


On a more important note, if DC is going to be pushing the "Earth 2" Hawkgirl, I guess that means we can expect more editorial gibbering in "Earth 2 Society". (I hate to pessimistic. But, DC has given me little cause for optimism.)

[Sparky Prime]

(Sorry, but having Heimdale played by a black guy in "Thor" made the movie look like "community center basement productions Thor".)

What was wrong with Idris Elba playing Heimdall? Admittedly I've never read Thor's comics so I don't really know most of those characters, but I think Elba has done a good job with the role (even though he's said in interviews he hasn't enjoyed the role).

DC had a half-Asian actor playing Superman in the '90s on TV in Lois & Clark.

And, my point is proven. Show sucked. Counting beans does not change that.

What are you talking about? Lois and Clark was a great series, and Dean Cain was a great Superman.

[Onslaught Six]

Hasbro's arguement about the toys is that nobody will buy the girls. With the modern figures, they might have a point. When I was a kid, I wanted the whole team. (Princess Leia spent as much time fighting and falling on the couch as Luke and Han when I was a kid. Zarana was a terrible threat to my Joes.) But, every piece of data that the toy companies use say that I was a weird kid (and this is supported by fact, I was a weird kid).

Older fans will buy toys of female characters. But, how many older fans are going to waste money on crap like those new "Avengers" toys? (Hasbro did release a "Legends" Black Widow, for those who are fans of "Winter Soldier".)

I have read recently that the Black Widow problem is as much a Disney problem as it is Hasbro. (Allegedly, Disney acquired Marvel and Star Wars primarily to corner a large share of the boys' entertainment market, because they already have a big hold on girls due to massive princess marketing. Pre-Marvel buyout, what does Disney have that appeals to the 5-13 boys demographic?) Girls liking or wanting anything Marvel-related is against the system; likewise for "weird kids" who want girl figures from a boy's toyline.
Not saying I agree with any of that, but that's what I'm told.

but I think Elba has done a good job with the role (even though he's said in interviews he hasn't enjoyed the role).

I think that got blown out of proportion, especially from that one interview. He got flown out either midway through or directly after (I believe) playing Nelson Mandela in a biopic, which is understandably a Big Time Serious Actor Role (C), so that he could shoot some greenscreen fight scene bullshit for Age of Ultron...greenscreen fight scene bullshit that didn't even make it to the finished movie. I'd be kinda ticked off too.

[Dominic]

If that is true, Disney is just leaving money on the table. They could get weird kids, completists, and girls to buy more stuff.

What was wrong with Idris Elba playing Heimdall? Admittedly I've never read Thor's comics so I don't really know most of those characters, but I think Elba has done a good job with the role (even though he's said in interviews he hasn't enjoyed the role).

Idris Elba does not work as Heimdall for the same reason that Chris Hemsworth would not work as Nelson Mandela.

In other words, are you really telling me that a major studio could not get a talented white actor to play a character from norse mythology? Some characters do not need to be a certain race. I can get behind a black Nick Fury. Smith might be able to pull off Deadshot. But, for other characters, the actors need to be descended from people from certain areas. Nelson Mandela should probably be played by a black guy (preferably one descended from people hailing from South Africa). Heimdall should probably be played by a white guy of nordic descent. (Woody Allen would also make a poor Heimdall.)

Those choices would be okay in a community center basement production. Not a major movie.

[Sparky Prime]

I think that got blown out of proportion, especially from that one interview. He got flown out either midway through or directly after (I believe) playing Nelson Mandela in a biopic, which is understandably a Big Time Serious Actor Role (C), so that he could shoot some greenscreen fight scene bullshit for Age of Ultron...greenscreen fight scene bullshit that didn't even make it to the finished movie. I'd be kinda ticked off too.

Um... The interview I was referring to he wasn't talking about Age of Ultron, it was Thor 2. He did appear in AOU, as part of Thor's vision setting things up for Thor 3, Ragnarok. But as far as I know, there never was supposed to be a fight scene with him in AOU. I can see how the interview might have been taken a bit out of context, but not blown out of proportion. He was pretty clear he wasn't happy filming his role as Heimdall in Thor 2.

Idris Elba does not work as Heimdall for the same reason that Chris Hemsworth would not work as Nelson Mandela.

In other words, are you really telling me that a major studio could not get a talented white actor to play a character from norse mythology? Some characters do not need to be a certain race. I can get behind a black Nick Fury. Smith might be able to pull off Deadshot. But, for other characters, the actors need to be descended from people from certain areas. Nelson Mandela should probably be played by a black guy (preferably one descended from people hailing from South Africa). Heimdall should probably be played by a white guy of nordic descent. (Woody Allen would also make a poor Heimdall.)

Those choices would be okay in a community center basement production. Not a major movie.

I don't agree with your reasoning here Dom... It's not like having a white actor play a real life black icon at all. This is a fictional universe where Norse Mythology was based on a race of ALIENS. So why do any of them need to be of a certain race when they aren't even human? There's nothing about that set up that says the Asgard have to all be white guys, or even people of Nordic descent, when they are supposed to be from a whole other world somewhere out there in the universe. Heck, I know of a series (Stargate SG1/Atlantis) where the Asgard were similarly an advanced race of aliens, except they didn't even look human, they looked more like Roswell type aliens. There's nothing "community center production" about any of it. It's simply a direction they decided to go with.

[Dominic]

I get the idea of "Marvel's Asgard" for copyright reasons. But, ultimately, the characters are drawn from norse mythology. Similarly, a white actor would not look right as an Egyptian god or a god from another non-European pantheon. Similarly, outside of parody, I would be hard pressed to come up with a good reason to have a male actor play a woman or an actress play a man.

[Sparky Prime]

I get the idea of "Marvel's Asgard" for copyright reasons. But, ultimately, the characters are drawn from norse mythology. Similarly, a white actor would not look right as an Egyptian god or a god from another non-European pantheon. Similarly, outside of parody, I would be hard pressed to come up with a good reason to have a male actor play a woman or an actress play a man.

I have to wonder if anybody complained when Elizabeth Taylor played Cleopatra despite not being of Egyptian descent back in the day... I'd really have to doubt it's "Marvel's Asgard" for copyright reasons as I don't think there is a copyright on mythologies. They have actors/actresses playing the roles of characters that are supposed to be of a different ethnicity all the time for various reasons. And yes, sometimes even having a man or woman playing the role of the opposite gender with out it being meant as a parody. The character Edna Turnblad from "Hairspray" comes to mind as a role traditionally played by a man despite being a female character.

[Onslaught Six]

I have to wonder if anybody complained when Elizabeth Taylor played Cleopatra despite not being of Egyptian descent back in the day...

Cleopatra was Greek. She was, for all intents, white.

Whatever, this is stupid. I got guitar cables in the mail. Go me. Let's talk about the new robots we can't buy for 9 months.