TF Views

Sparky Prime wrote:I'd add that it appears to be a "Only a Decepticon can defeat the leader of the Decepticons to become the Decepticon leader" sort of a thing.

Which is actually a pretty sick system when you think about it. To expand on Prowl's point, who in their right mind would take that job? Yes, there are people who would. But, how many qualified candidates would not even apply for it?


Joking aside, Sparky has a point about the placement of "Coda". But, I am still banking on Starscream and Megatron having the Matrix based on Megatron saying "I am taking the Matrix". (He may well have had it in his back pocket.)

I agree with 86 on his analysis, except for one huge problem. The humans *did* need the Autobots. If nothing else, the guys in NYC would have been kiled in some kind of strike by the Europeans and Asians. And, unless that strike actually killed the Decepticons, they Europeans and Asians would have done nothing but make them mad.


The core difference between the Autobots and Decpeticons seems to be how they react to leadership. The Autobots *need* a strong leader to keep them together. (Kup at one point implies that Autobots can be just as fratricidal as Decepticons.) Decepticons take their fratricidal instincts, and use them to choose a leader. The trick to being the Decepticon leader is to do well enough to keep the troops happy, but not well enough that they have nothing to distract them.


Now, my question is how many guys on either side could live well if the war ended?


Dom

Dominic wrote:Now, my question is how many guys on either side could live well if the war ended?

That's the very question that Beast Wars tried to answer, in part. This conflict stretches so deep that characters who weren't even there still bear grudges against the other side (Megatron, and possibly Tripredacus.)

One thing's for sure, though--Perceptor clearly wouldn't be able to.

Dominic wrote:Kup at one point implies that Autobots can be just as fratricidal as Decepticons.

Implies my ass, they explicitly show this with Ironhide beating the hell outta Mirage! Still one of the most shocking moments in TF comics in ages (and that's a very good thing).

Now, my question is how many guys on either side could live well if the war ended?

Interstingly, the first guy I think of is Optimus Prime. We've never really considered what would happen to Optimus after the war, because the going assumption is that he'd give his life to end it. But what if the war did end with some sort of ceasefire/compromise? What would Optimus do? Go back to being an archivist or whatever? He's been through way too much for that. One important thing to remember is that Megatron is the one who fights for 'Peace'. Optimus is the one who fights for 'Freedom'. With the war over, I can see a lot of guys on either side being unhappy with the compromises they'd be forced to make. Prime would probably take on a political role of some sort, trying to guarantee everyone's rights. Heh, and maybe eventually end up fighting for the Decepticons' freedom, in a delicious irony. They're sentient beings too, after all...

"Optimus After the War" is a really kickass idea for an Elseworlds/Evolutions-style book, now that I'm on the subject. Get on that, if you get the chance, IDW.

True, and Kup is pretty direct when asking how long before grudges and rivalries become factions. But, ya know, Kup does not explicitly say "Autobots can be fratricidal as well....." 0_o


I never considered Optimus to be problematic. I suppose he might be like the aimless retiree. (I am thinking of airline pilots who die within a year or so of retiring for lack of having a purpose.) If the movie is anything to go by, Prime is not going to defend Decepticons. (Either way, I like Prowl's idea for an "Evolutions" story on this.)

I can see some guys doing well. Mirage is an obvious example. I can even see Thundercracker,

Spoiler

had he survived

doing well, provided he had a purpose. Pipes could go into commerce. Hoist and Grapple could obviously work as engineers. Smokescreen could go into PR.



IDW's Blurr would likely have a hard time though, owing to his need for purpose.

I can see Silverbolt doing poorly. With nothing else to focus on, his fears would become an obession.

Sandstorm's original profile was explicit about him having nothing but the war to keep him going.


Ironically, I can see about as many Decepticons doing well. Ratbat would be an accountant, if not a scrupulously honest one. Swindle could simply become a merchant. Even if he wanted to make illicit money on the side, he could smuggle consumer goods to evade taxes and such. In all seriousness, I cannot see an objective problem with Shockwave running things. He would make a terrible PM or President. But, he would be a fantastic Treasurer.


The Dinobots and Predacons could likely find work in law enforcement or bounty hunting. Omega Supreme would likely notice no difference, as he fights so rarely to begin with.


The problem with BW is that most of the Predacons we see are criminals. (I am not even going to touch the Tripredacus council, owing to their questionable origins. Maybe they are Unicron's spawn. Maybe not.)

I get the feeling Megatron was more focused on his own interests. He was bitter about the Maximals because they were in charge and he was not well connected. As a professor of mine put it, fat happy middle-class people tend to not rebel. If the Predacons were in charge, and Megatron were not well connected, he likely would have been a Maximal. He may also have been a straight up "destroy everthing" type revolutionary.

I agree with 86 on his analysis, except for one huge problem. The humans *did* need the Autobots. If nothing else, the guys in NYC would have been kiled in some kind of strike by the Europeans and Asians. And, unless that strike actually killed the Decepticons, they Europeans and Asians would have done nothing but make them mad.

Ahh, but there I disagree - it wasn't the Autobots that saved the city, it was Thundercracker and his own ideals. Whether he'd have made his stand had the Autobots not interfered is a harder call to make. I like to think he would have, although it's likely he'd have been stopped before he could had the others not been preoccupied. Regardless, the Autobots themselves were not specifically needed for either of the crucial acts of heroism that concluded the Decepticons' reign over NYC.

Implies my ass, they explicitly show this with Ironhide beating the hell outta Mirage! Still one of the most shocking moments in TF comics in ages (and that's a very good thing).

Agreed, although I'm not sure if it actually implies your ass.

Poor Mirage, his traitorous reputation was undeserved. Glad to see he and Ironhide at least had the one moment of teamwork afterward.

Interstingly, the first guy I think of is Optimus Prime.

Furman would make him go crazy and die like that one horrible and thankfully unofficial continuation of G2. As long as they didn't do 'that', I'd be very interested to see how the old mentalities of war-torn Autobots settled in to a new, peaceful Cybertronian society. Consider the implications of their breaching the peace to attack decommissioned Decepticons based on old wounds, many an Autobot would do such a thing.

IDW's Blurr would likely have a hard time though, owing to his need for purpose.

He could, presumably, fall back into racing.

In all seriousness, I cannot see an objective problem with Shockwave running things. He would make a terrible PM or President. But, he would be a fantastic Treasurer

LOGIC DICTATES THAT YOU WILL VOTE FOR SHOCKWAVE.

I can see Soundwave as a successful man of business, he's arguably one of the less cruel and war-inclined of the Decepticon stock. He's shown true feelings for his minions, and is adept at manipulation, string-pulling, and blackmailing to gain favour and advance his own status.

Omega Supreme would likely notice no difference, as he fights so rarely to begin with.

Hmm, there's a specific argument to be made about Omega's depiction in the show - the Constructicons attempted to reprogram him with the robo-smasher, and this is what presumably made him so cold and mechanical in his thoughts and actions. Of course, there was no such event in the IDW continuity as far as we know. I'd say he'd set off on a long voyage, ala Dreamwave's G1 V3. He requires purpose.

Of all the interesting questions, I'm surprised no-one has raised the issue of Megatron. He, too, ultimately seeks a peace, his just happens to be through tyranny. Were terms reached that he would agree with, I do not doubt he would be content. I do find it hard to believe the Autobots would ever agree to his terms, though. Heh.

I have to wonder if the humans would have been able to make the crucial shot that knocked out Megatron though. Megatron was only standing around there in order to taunt Prime. I tend to think that Megatron getting shot upset the status quo enough for Thundercracker to stiffen his spine a bit

You are right about the Autobots though. They did play a pretty minor role.



Dude, "Allignment" was not that bad. And, Prime did not go crazy for inactivity. He was injured and placed in stasis, ala the Emperor for "WarHammer". (I actually wrote that off as coincidence. But, after IDW Jhiaxus, I have to wonder if Furman is deliberately ripping off GW.)



Would Blurr be happy racing though? Remember, he wanted assurance that what he did mattered? I suppose he could be a high-end courier. And, there is no reason to say he could not work in another army. IDW clearly assumed other aliens besides TFs and Nebulons.



I do not know that Soundwave would be successful in business. He could probably find work with an old colleague, but I do not see him as the guy with his name on the letter-head, ya know? The only times he has been shown as a leader it was a "the boss is out of town, dead, or crazy" situation. He could be an office manager, but not a controlling partner.


Omega Supreme would have the advantage of being used to forced inactivity. His portrayals are pretty consistent in the sense that they say "he only moves when he *really* has to. If things are not going completely wrong, Omega has little to do. In that sense, peace and a general state of war would be very similar for him. He might react to natural disasters, but those are still not an everyday occurence.


The question about Megatron is answered in AHM. He knows full well he can only take Decepticons so far, which is why he assumes Starscream will (and rightly should) eventually kill him.


Dom
-interesting that we are focusing more on Decepticons here.

Starscream's bits here are actually really interesting in that they directly conflict with his portrayl in TFTM. There, Starscream was content to simply leave Megatron to the Autobots and their devices, and it's only because of Soundwave that he is taken into Astrotrain. And then Starscream negates 'that' by chucking Megs out with the others. It's a very interesting statement.

Dominic wrote: I can even see Thundercracker,

Spoiler

had he survived

doing well, provided he had a purpose.

Who says he

Spoiler

didn't survive

? All we saw was Skywarp shooting, but not what actually happened to Thundercracker.

You know, I was just about to come in with a "You're effing kidding me!" to your point, Sparky, but then I remembered that this is a comic book we're talking about.

That said, I'm fairly certain the intention is that he's dead. That's what that whole scene is about. Not that they couldn't bring him back later.

That's my point. All we see is Skywarp's weapon shooting but that doesn't actually mean anything in comics. General rule of comics, if you don't see the body, they aren't really dead. And even if you do see the body, they can usually bring them back to life somehow anyway.