Shockwave wrote:Has Earth-2 ever referrenced anything that happened in the DCU or the two characters that migrated there?
I'm not sure if they know what happened to their Supergirl and Robin or not, but yes, there are characters who are aware of the main DCU in Earth 2. And Mr. Terrific even has been transported to Earth 2.
I get that. Honestly I can see both sides of your debate with Anderson here, but what I think he's trying to say is that he would have preferred no Darkseid invasion at all and that if the writers REALLY wanted to be "creative" they could have had the heroes die doing something else heroic instead. Maybe defending Earth from acid rain or something. I dunno, I don't really read DC enough to come up with examples, but I think you get the point and I think Anderson actually does just see it as "oh yay... yet another Darkseid invasion".
But that's why I say I think andersonh1 is focusing on the wrong thing in Earth 2. The invasion was literally only shown in one issue and isn't the point of the first story arc of Earth 2 at all. And because he's focused on something the story really isn't about, it just seems to me like he's erroneously seeing the story as being less creative because he's not seeing the story for what it actually is.
Shockwave wrote:Has Earth-2 ever referrenced anything that happened in the DCU or the two characters that migrated there?
I'm not sure if they know what happened to their Supergirl and Robin or not, but yes, there are characters who are aware of the main DCU in Earth 2. And Mr. Terrific even has been transported to Earth 2.
I get that. Honestly I can see both sides of your debate with Anderson here, but what I think he's trying to say is that he would have preferred no Darkseid invasion at all and that if the writers REALLY wanted to be "creative" they could have had the heroes die doing something else heroic instead. Maybe defending Earth from acid rain or something. I dunno, I don't really read DC enough to come up with examples, but I think you get the point and I think Anderson actually does just see it as "oh yay... yet another Darkseid invasion".
But that's why I say I think andersonh1 is focusing on the wrong thing in Earth 2. The invasion was literally only shown in one issue and isn't the point of the first story arc of Earth 2 at all. And because he's focused on something the story really isn't about in the first place, he's erroneously seeing the story as being less creative than it really is.
Ok so there is actually a lot of cross over between DCU and E2. I figured I'd ask rather than run in circles arguing potential minutae.
And I certainly see your point on the other thing as well, I certainly agree that we almost never see comics where the big three (Supes, Bats and WW) all die off at the beginning (and presumably stay dead?). But I can also see Anderson's point in that the one particular story of "Darkseid invades Earth" has been done before and that as a result, that one story concept isn't very original. It does sound like the outcome has some creativity and originality to it though and it sounds like that, more than anything else is what E2 is based on? Again, I don't read this so I'm just basing this off of what's been said here.
Shockwave wrote:And I certainly see your point on the other thing as well, I certainly agree that we almost never see comics where the big three (Supes, Bats and WW) all die off at the beginning (and presumably stay dead?).
Yeah, they've all stayed dead. Although a new Batman (whom we don't know his identity) has recently appeared in Earth 2.
But I can also see Anderson's point in that the one particular story of "Darkseid invades Earth" has been done before and that as a result, that one story concept isn't very original. It does sound like the outcome has some creativity and originality to it though and it sounds like that, more than anything else is what E2 is based on? Again, I don't read this so I'm just basing this off of what's been said here.
But again, saying it's just another Darkseid invasion that has been done before misses the entire point of that issue. That story is more about highlighting the base differences of Earth 2 from the main universe rather than the invasion itself and how that effects the story moving forward. I'd get that point if it was just another Darkseid invasion that adds nothing new, but that's really not what it is.
The result (and method) were different when Darkseid invaded in "Legends". It was different during Final Crisis. It was different when he was the big bad in the animated Superman series. It was different in the first Justice League arc of the New 52. It was different when he invaded in Earth 2. No doubt I'm leaving some other Darkseid invasions out, but how many times can Darkseid invade the Earth without the story starting to feel a bit stale? We've seen this story before. Slight tweaks in methodology and outcome don't change that, either pre or post-New 52, and I'm not sure the more extensive effects in the Earth-2 series really make all that much difference either. Nor was it necessary to show the differences between Earth-1 and Earth-2. There were plenty of ways to do that without re-using Darkseid again.
I can always blame Geoff Johns for his use as the villain in Justice League if you like, because I do get Robinson's desire to mirror that situation while showing a vastly different outcome due to Earth-2 having different heroes.
Different nitpick: Brutaal as a villain's name? Seriously? Is this the 90s?
andersonh1 wrote:No doubt I'm leaving some other Darkseid invasions out, but how many times can Darkseid invade the Earth without the story starting to feel a bit stale? We've seen this story before.
That's like saying how many stories with a villain can we have before that villain becomes stale. We've seen Lex Luthor try to kill Superman before. We've seen Batman take down Joker before. What makes the 10th time they've done it any different? The answer is that it isn't just repeating the same story over and over again. You're only looking at it from a very basic 'Darkseid invades Earth' viewpoint rather than the story of that invasion itself. It's not the same thing. It's not even a full story arc, it was ONE issue.
Slight tweaks in methodology and outcome don't change that,
See now, this is why I think you're underplaying the plot. It's more than just "slight tweaks" to methodology and outcomes here. It makes a huge difference. Earth 2 is a very different Earth in many respects which directly makes it a very different story.
Nor was it necessary to show the differences between Earth-1 and Earth-2. There were plenty of ways to do that without re-using Darkseid again.
Not in terms of the New 52 there wasn't. Remember, Earth 2 began as part of the second wave of New 52 titles just as Justice League was getting into their second story arc.
I can always blame Geoff Johns for his use as the villain in Justice League if you like, because I do get Robinson's desire to mirror that situation while showing a vastly different outcome due to Earth-2 having different heroes.
I see no reason to blame either writer here. There's absolutely nothing wrong with either story.
"Earth 2" picks up after your typical "big stupid event". It may as well have been "Inferno" for all it matters. The whole point of the big stupid event was to give the book an unorthodox starting point. DC used the invasion angle for the sake of having "Earth 2" start with something similar, and that is it. Aside from a few flash-backs, the invasion that started the ball rolling could be anything.
Yeah, they've all stayed dead. Although a new Batman (whom we don't know his identity) has recently appeared in Earth 2.
I have heard (and sort of buy in to) speculation that the new Batman is Jason Todd. (Remember, Todd originally had blonde hair before CoIE, which would be somewhat consistent with what has been shown on page.) But, this is all speculation.
Y'know, I kind of have to wonder how many times any villain can be used before they become stale? I mean, how quickly did we Transfans get sick of Unicron? But, on the reverse of that, we seem to get pissy if there's no Megatron. Ok, maybe not around here, but you all know what I mean.
Shockwave wrote:Y'know, I kind of have to wonder how many times any villain can be used before they become stale?
It depends on how often they're used, and what's done with them, at least to me. All the New 52 writers seem to have done is to take pre-existing characters and tweak them slightly and call that being creative. "Here's the Joker, but we'll cut off his face." "Here's Lex Luthor, drinking some energy drinks and thinking he's important." "Here's Mr. Freeze, but he's not really trying to save his wife, he just thinks he is." Etc.
Green Lantern #23
Putting Hal Jordan in charge of the Corps continues to pay dividends for the character in a couple of great scenes as he demands to be told the name of a dead recruit, which know one knows. They guy was recruited by a ring, arrived on Oa, and died in the fight with Larfleeze before anyone could even so much as introduce him. Hal then sets out after the escaped prisoner, now a Star Sapphire, all on his own. Kilowog calls him out on it, but Hal is determined not to see anyone else killed. I also like Relic's term for the various lantern corps: lightsmiths. The subplot with the rings blinking out randomly is starting to feel stretched out, so it needs to be tackled and resolved, which I think will happen during "Lights Out".
Superior Spider-Man #16
I had wondered if the Hobgoblin was related to the other Urich who works for the Daily Bugle, and this issue answers that question. It's fun to watch him sweat as Spider-Ock publically exposes his secret identity as the Hobgoblin and completely wrecks his life. There's no denying that Ock's methods are very effective, and that he manages to capture Hobgoblin without any loss of life, even in the face of a hostage situation. However, the mayor is starting to get a LOT of questions, and both Carlie and the Wraith are starting to figure out that Spider Man isn't Peter by tracking down his offshore accounts. The situation that Ock has created is starting to unravel, whether he realizes it or not. And of course, there's the Goblin and his underground army to contend with.
Batman 66 #2
I wonder if the uninformed author of this book realizes that climate change was not a concern to anyone other than a few scientists in 1966? Gordon's reference to the "global climate betraying us" is a stupid, stupid anachronism, even in a book meant to be as farcical as this one. Otherwise, the idea that the Penguin would sail an iceberg into Gotham harbor, declare it a sovereign nation and extort money from passing ships to let them through is a typically mad scheme that fits the tone of this book perfectly. As is Gordon's logic when determining that the iceberg is a vehicle, not a country. The second story, concerning a woman who hypnotizes men when she sings is odd, and I'm not familiar with the villain in question. I've seen the Adam West Batman series of course, but not every episode, and it's been quite a few years since I watched it in any case. So I don't know every villain. I thought this issue was a bit of a letdown compared to the first one.
The Golden Age Green Lantern Archives, vol. 1
I've just started reading through this book, which contains around 21 Golden Age Alan Scott stories, both from All-American comics as well as his own series. There's an introduction by Marty Nodell detailing how he created the character and came up with his name and the various concepts such as the ring and lantern and the use of the oath and willpower. The art and lettering is fairly crude, and is much more what you might expect if you imagine a stereotypical Golden Age comic. If I were to put the various GA artists on a scale, Nodell would be near the bottom. But as usual with these hardcover archives, the quality of the paper and the restoration are excellent, and for $19.00 on Amazon, the book was less than half the cover price, making it well worth it.
I will say that the whole "he's vulnerable to wood, ha ha" reaction to Alan Scott is a "flanderization" of his vulnerability, for lack of a better term. It's more a case of his ring protecting him from metal or other substances, but not more organic or plant-based things. It's somewhat loosely defined and thought out, but people can shoot at Alan all day long and the ring will protect him from the bullets, or knives. But punch him in the jaw or hit him with a baseball bat, and he'll feel it. This all has something to do with the source of the lantern's power, but as I said, it's not very well defined. The whole thing exists just to he won't be invincible, draining all drama from the series.
Red Lanterns #22
Guy is having a hard time adjusting to the Red ring even though he's done it twice before with out having any problems. The last time with the very same ring he has now. The Red Lanterns discuss what to do with him, but Rankorr throws him into the lake to restore Guy's intellect. After he emerges, Guy pretty much sets up a democracy with the others and decides to get some shelter for the barren planet. As none of them are builders, Guy decides they'll hijack a smugglers star-cruiser (which also happens to be poaching people from Green Lantern Chaselon's home world). Elsewhere, Dex-Starr uses his ring to make a construct heart for Atrocitus. At least I assume it's a construct seeing as Black Lanterns ripped it out of him during Blackest Night. Nice to see the new direction in this book. Although we have yet to see them have any ring power outages like in the other books. I'm assuming with the Butcher being on the cover of the next issue though we'll start seeing how it'll tie into what's going on with the Entities we've seen so far.
Green Lantern #23
andersonh1 summed up this issue pretty well. I'd add that Hal is shown the events taking place in this weeks New Guardians, which prompts him to try and track down Carol, Kyle or the New Guardians. All of which his ring says cannot be located. I also like how Relic has different terms for things. Lightsmiths instead of Lantern. Instead of Willpower it's the light of Resolve. Love he calls passion. Just interesting how it's similar but different.
Green Lantern Corps #23
The rings come back online just in time for John and his new recruits to fight back once again, but soon find themselves outnumbered and retreat to Oa. Meanwhile, Fatality's captors try to remove her ring, but she's able to escape using a tether to John. Back on Oa, Kilowag finds Salaak who is looking for the ring template to see if the rings malfunction is a fail-safe the Guardians had put in, but finds no issue with it. Next, they investigate the Central Battery, which is also in perfect working order but is somehow isn't fully powered. Suddenly, Ion emerges from the battery asking for help and is not looking so good. The White Entity along with Ophidian, the Predator and Proselyte arrive asking Ion to come with them. Asking where they are taking Ion, the White Entity tells the Green Lanterns they are going home to die.
Green Lantern New Guardians #23
On the new Blue Lantern homeworld, Elpis, Saint Walker senses something is wrong when Adara suddenly bursts from their Central Battery and leaves the planet. Pondering if they should follow to help, the Blue Lanterns find they have bigger problems as Relic's ship arrives and begins to drain their Battery of power. Kyle, Carol and the Guardians arrive to back them up, but none of them are any match for Relic. The Blue Battery is drained and Saint Walker is injured. Unable to heal him, the Guardians telepathically shows shows Kyle there is no Hope for Kyle to tap into. The Blue Lanterns use the last of their rings power to reveal they can boost more than Willpower, boosting his Compassion so he can teleport Saint Walker, Carol and the Guardians to Oa. Relic then kills the de-powered Blue Lantern Corps...
I had a feeling when they announced that one of the Corps would be destroyed that it would be the Blue Lanterns. Kyle highlights why they were the logical first choice to take down. At least Saint Walker is still around, so they aren't completely gone. I hope the writers will rebuild them, as the Blue Lanterns are my favorite. Relic shows the Guardians, who in turn shows Kyle, why he doesn't like the Spectrum, but it's only hinted at for us. Seems that somehow using the Spectrum pushes the universe closer to destruction.
