The Transformers (IDW, formerly "Robots in Disguise")

The modern comics universe has had such a different take on G1, one that's significantly represented by the Generations toys, so they share a forum. A modern take on a Real Cybertronian Hero. Currently starring Generations toys, IDW "The Transformers" comics, MTMTE, TF vs GI Joe, and Windblade. Oh wait, and now Skybound, wheee!
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andersonh1
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by andersonh1 »

#14

Okay, I'll be interested in what everyone who's been defending Prowl has to say
Spoiler
now that it's been revealed that Bombshell has been running the show the whole time
. I should have seen that coming. There's some interesting use of the Chaos storyline here as Megatron discusses the nature of the combiners we've seen so far in the IDW universe, and why they behave the way they do. There's lots more slaughter (maybe, given the track record of this book it's hard to tell) of prominent characters, including one that seems pretty impossible to recover from. And the newly adopted sixth Constructicon is bound to be a problem for Megatron... that's all I'm saying.

I'll give Barber credit for
Spoiler
making Prowl's actions seem plausible and for hiding the twist
, and for explaining a lot of things that go all the way back to the first issue. Nicely done.
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by Gomess »

Hold up.

Everyone always tells me that Prowl is one of the most interesting elements of this series. Like, if I only read it for *one reason*...

And then-
Spoiler
mind control
? Really?
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Dominic
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by Dominic »

Issue 14:

Oh. My. God.

Grade: A

It makes more sense to reply to the above comments than to post a full review.

Hold up.

Everyone always tells me that Prowl is one of the most interesting elements of this series. Like, if I only read it for *one reason*...

And then- {SPOILER - Mouse-over to read:}mind control? Really?
Not quite.

If I read it right,
Spoiler
Prowl has only been mind-controlled since he and Bombshell fought
, or only about half the series.

Prowl's role in Kup's reconstruction, deploying the Wreckers to Garrus-9, possibly attempting to destroy the Lost Light, and a significant amount of his post-war antics on Cybertron predate
Spoiler
Bombshell tagging him
.

Any of those things are still more than enough "new and unique take on an established character".

And, in this case we also get what I would argue is the first
Spoiler
long term use of Bombshell's defining weapon
. Seriously, when has this ever been "a thing" for more than an episode? The "Ultimate Doom" comes close, but that did not involve
Spoiler
Bombshell
.
Spoiler
Bombshell
got a chance to shine and use his signature weapon in the
Spoiler
old Marvel "GI Joe v/s The Transformers"
series. (Did you get that story in the UK? I know that it was never properly "counted" there, owing to "Fallen Angel" over-writing part of it.)

Barber even manages to make good use of Decepti-God. I am still not a fan of the fact that the Aerialbots and Dinobots just being able to merge though. Ironhide's Earth slang was kind of grating, given that he is one of the characters with the least reason to be using it.

If there is a reset to some kind of "old" status quo at the end of this arc, I get the feeling that Starscream is going to die.



Dom
-really wants a
Spoiler
"Prowl as Constructicon"
figure, and would settle for a damned "Kre-O" set.
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by Gomess »

We did *not* get the aforementioned stories in the UK, but Grimlock- as letters page answerer- was very open about their existence, referring to them as a "loose interpretation of the facts" when a fan asked if it was true Goldbug had an alternate origin in the US comics. He used the same term to describe the cartoon, maintaining that only the UK published comics were true accounts of the *actual* Autobot-Decepticon war.
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by Shockwave »

That was one of my favourite parts of the UK comic, letters answered in context by characters. It was fun. I think my favorite issue was the one with Ratchet call Rat-Chat.
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by BWprowl »

Well that was…disappointing. After 13 issues of intense build-up, real unique machinations and ruminations on the nature of factions, motivations of characters within them, and what looked to be a genuine, most spectacular of character arcs for the one and only Prowl, Barber managed to let me down in the most stereotypical way possible. Here I was, enjoying my tense thriller full of political intrigue, subterfuge, and torn loyalties, and while I fully expected all of it to come crashing down, I never imagined he’d play it so disappointingly safe, in such a trite, cliché way.

All those socio-politcal games we’ve watched guys like Starscream and Prowl play? That idea that separating from the ‘herd’ of Cybertronians in the city drove Transformers to madness and conflict, as if such things were simply the default for such a war-driven race? The concept of whether there were any such thing as ‘bad guys’ in the three-way struggle between Autobots, Decepticons, and Neutrals as they struggled for what they felt was their fair share of representation? All out the window as Barber instead presents us that the whole plot, this entire time, was nothing more than the product of EEEEVIL mind control by Megatron, and his stupid, convoluted, bad guy plan to CONQUER CYBERTRON ONES AND FOR ALL! Starscream’s lofty political ambitions are quashed under Megatron once again telling him what a loser he is, Wheeljack gets killed not to prove that Prowl’s gone over the deep end or means business, but simply for shock value and nothing else (Prowl only killed him because of mind control! Nothing was his fault!), and all the character development that Prowl’s gone through, all the pushing they’ve done to him, driving him over the edge in the first truly interesting use of the character since Roche set him on that very path way back in All Hail Megatron, is totally undone by one of the most overused villainous plot devices in cartoon history. That Prowl actually pleads with Bumblebee, asking him why he couldn’t tell it wasn’t really him…because, god dammit Prowl, that pragmatic, do-anything, police-state-enforcing douchebag WAS you, and it was the entire reason I was reading this book!

What was Barber even trying to SHOW with these past 13 issues if it was going to end with “Prowl was never evil all along!”? What was the point in establishing his history as an almost-Neutral? Why go through the effort of illustrating his bigoted attempts to block Neutral or Decepticon authority? I’m all for impressively keeping the audience fooled, but to keep us fooled into thinking we were reading a better, deeper, more interesting story? That’s just pathetic.

Really, the entire narrative just completely crumbles down in this one. Metalhawk literally has guys forget about the political climate while talking to him and rush off to cover the big bad guy break-in instead. Megatron, Bombshell, and the other Decepticons launch into a stereotypical multi-page monologue about their BRILLIANT SCHEME, everyone just standing there while they explain their evil plan. Dirge and Swindle get unceremoniously shooed out, their part in the plot rendered irrelevant by the reveal about Prowl, then conveniently explained away as ‘Well, we didn’t want people to think Prowl was EVIL-evil, just evil!’ Gestalt technology is thrown in as the alleged driving MacGuffin of the plot, despite it having, well, nothing to do with what we’ve read up ‘til this point (What about socio-politics? Race/Faction relations? The idea of alignments as applied to these characters?). And Ironhide, the Dinobots, and Superion, having miraculously survived their brush with Megatron’s plot powers, just stand outside the city, biding their time for no real reason, until they decide it’s time to swoop in and SAAAAAAVE THE DAAAAAAY, because that sort of half-assed resolution is what we’ve been building up to all this time, right?

Look, I could have done with the story ending up turning back into ‘Autobots fighting Decepticons’, I even saw it going that direction. But I wanted to see it done in a more organic, meaningful way. I got really excited in those opening pages, when Prowl talks about conflict being an inherent part of Cybertron nature, like the powder keg they’d been building up this entire time would ignite as part of everybody’s actions, which they’d been painstakingly detailing until now. But nope, restarting the war was all an Evil Decepticon Plot, and none of it was the good guys’ fault, and shame on us for thinking anything bad about them.

And just for good measure, Arcee just kinda evaporates partway through, he role never explained (though it’s safe to say she was under EEEVIL MIND CONTROL as well), and Starscream off-handedly reveals that he had a 'nefarious plot’ all along involving commandeering the elections, undermining the sincere streak HE HIMSELF told us, the readers about, because apparently we couldn’t handle the idea of a well-meaning Starscream. So in the end, good guys will be good guys, bad guys will be bad guys, neutrals who aren’t Metalhawk apparently don’t really matter, and this was a whole wasted trip for nothing.

Fuck this book, fuck Barber, fuck everything. I won’t be back for it next month. At least MTMTE can manage to stick to its ideals, and stay readable, out of stinking cartoon cliché territory.
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by Onslaught Six »

Wow. I need to catch up now.

I will say that I definitely understand Prowl's frustration.
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by andersonh1 »

Dominic wrote:And, in this case we also get what I would argue is the first
Spoiler
long term use of Bombshell's defining weapon
. Seriously, when has this ever been "a thing" for more than an episode? The "Ultimate Doom" comes close, but that did not involve
Spoiler
Bombshell
.
Spoiler
Bombshell
got a chance to shine and use his signature weapon in the
Spoiler
old Marvel "GI Joe v/s The Transformers"
series. (Did you get that story in the UK? I know that it was never properly "counted" there, owing to "Fallen Angel" over-writing part of it.)
Agreed. I'm with Dom on this one, we finally get an excellent use of Bombshell's mind-control abilities, used on a grand scale. We get Decepticons acting like Decepticons, using subterfuge and deception until they're ready to make their big move. And Barber very nicely used the more morally ambiguous characterization of Prowl that IDW has provided to hide the whole thing, because it seemed very plausible that Prowl would act as he has. Nice misdirection, Barber.

And I'm honestly relieved that Prowl hasn't genuinely become a fascist thug. I can live with a little mind control to explain away his behavior, particularly since that's been Bombshell's stock and trade since the character was introduced, so it's not as though this ability came out of nowhere. I think the character's been elevated as an antagonist after all this, assuming he survives.
BWprowl wrote:And Ironhide, the Dinobots, and Superion, having miraculously survived their brush with Megatron’s plot powers, just stand outside the city, biding their time for no real reason, until they decide it’s time to swoop in and SAAAAAAVE THE DAAAAAAY, because that sort of half-assed resolution is what we’ve been building up to all this time, right?
I doubt they've just been standing around biding their time. The last time we saw Ironhide and the Dinobots, the Dinobots were trying to kill him, and so was Superion. At the end of this issue, they're ready to head back into the city and fight. Something had to happen in between those two moments, and whatever that was is what's been occupying Ironhide and the others for the last few issues.
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by Dominic »

Hey, this is like a "Dom Double-Down"!

I can crush Anderson's hopes and dreams while refuting Prowl!

And I'm honestly relieved that Prowl hasn't genuinely become a fascist thug.
Not quite.

Bombshell would have tagged Prowl in issue 4 (admittedly earlier than I remembered). Prowl was ruminating about a deal with Starscream *before* confronting and being subverted by Bombshell. (It is not clear if Arcee saw this happen.) Prowl had already advocated for, and implemented the use of control chips on Decepticons. Any hand that Prowl played in attempting to destroy the Lost Light was before he fell under Bombshell's control.
That idea that separating from the ‘herd’ of Cybertronians in the city drove Transformers to madness and conflict, as if such things were simply the default for such a war-driven race? The concept of whether there were any such thing as ‘bad guys’ in the three-way struggle between Autobots, Decepticons, and Neutrals as they struggled for what they felt was their fair share of representation?
Most of that is still there. Besides the above point about Prowl making a deal with Starscream earlier, there are other characters who tried to move beyond factionalism. Skybite, Blurr, Dirge and Swindle all tried to move on.
That Prowl actually pleads with Bumblebee, asking him why he couldn’t tell it wasn’t really him…because, god dammit Prowl, that pragmatic, do-anything, police-state-enforcing douchebag WAS you,
And, that was kind of the point. Prowl was well on his way to becoming something similar to Megatron.

"Peace through tyranny." That has been the origional Megatron's canonical motto since G2. That has been present in more than one iteration of the character since G2. In "War Within", Starscream describes Megatron's leadership style as the infliction and acceptance of pain. Shades of that are present in IDW's Megatron.

And, as seen in "Megatron: Origin" and recent issues of MTMTE, Megatron was not always the monster he is now shown to be. (Look at his reaction to his first kill in "Origins".) There was a point when Megatron could have been as great a hero as Prime. Similarly, pre-Decepticon Shockwave would not necessarily have been a hero. He was still Jhiaxus' student. Imagine Shockwave's technical skills applied with the zeal that only emotion can foster. (And, pre-war Shockwave was not necessarily stable.)

Prowl being mind-controlled only undoes *some* of what he did. As it stands now, Prowl more than set the ground-work for Megatron to return and rise to power. Prowl had the Decepticons, all of the most likely troublemakers, relagated to a ghetto. Prowl created incentive for fraud and subterfuge among a population that he was willing to use as a make-shift security force. Prowl wanted the war over on his terms, NAILS be damned. And, that was all *before* issue 4.

Right before Bombshell subverted Prowl, Prowl was ruminating about his dealings with Spike Witwicky and how that renewed and valideted his cynical outlook.


And, most importantly, it is a damned safe bet that Roberts will be making use of this over the next few issues at least.
What was Barber even trying to SHOW with these past 13 issues if it was going to end with “Prowl was never evil all along!”? What was the point in establishing his history as an almost-Neutral? Why go through the effort of illustrating his bigoted attempts to block Neutral or Decepticon authority?
Barber has blurred the faction lines with his run on the book.
Metalhawk literally has guys forget about the political climate while talking to him and rush off to cover the big bad guy break-in instead.
It actually would play out like that. The media has ADD like a child in public schools.
Gestalt technology is thrown in as the alleged driving MacGuffin of the plot, despite it having, well, nothing to do with what we’ve read up ‘til this point (What about socio-politics? Race/Faction relations? The idea of alignments as applied to these characters?). And Ironhide, the Dinobots, and Superion, having miraculously survived their brush with Megatron’s plot powers, just stand outside the city, biding their time for no real reason, until they decide it’s time to swoop in and SAAAAAAVE THE DAAAAAAY, because that sort of half-assed resolution is what we’ve been building up to all this time, right?
"Peace through tyranny."

The merge-tech is a literal manifestatio of that idea. Megatron is the state completely consuming the individual. It is the nightmare dark-side of Hobbes' "Leviathan". It is an illustration of every Marxist/Maoist nightmare scenario. Megatron rightly fought against the Functionists at the start of the war, and he has become something far worse.

And, it is strongly implied that Megatron is consistently excerting some degree of subtle control over the other Decepticons, making him a literal and symbolic leader. Think about how the Decepticons collapsed at the end of AHM.

And just for good measure, Arcee just kinda evaporates partway through, he role never explained (though it’s safe to say she was under EEEVIL MIND CONTROL as well), and Starscream off-handedly reveals that he had a 'nefarious plot’ all along involving commandeering the elections, undermining the sincere streak HE HIMSELF told us, the readers about, because apparently we couldn’t handle the idea of a well-meaning Starscream.
Arcee will likely get more explication next issue. Starscream wanted to be in charge. But, he also wanted the war to end and likely would have grown in to leadership. Starscream is cynical. But, he consistently grew as a leader.

Fuck this book, fuck Barber, fuck everything. I won’t be back for it next month.
Wow. Seriously? Reread this issue.


2 random points:

-When did Buzzsaw have a chance to "upgrade" to his "Fall of Cybertron" body? In issue 13, he was still using his old body. (Laserbeak would have needed to be rebuilt. Did something happen to Buzzsaw?)

-I recall many complaints at the AllSpark about Sunstreaker not being under mind-control in AHM. ("Bawwww, an Autobot would not turn!") Now, I am seeing complaints about the fact that Prowl's turn was partially influenced by Bombshell (despite the face that much of it was in fact Prowl).


Dom
-notes that Barber has done something great here...
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Re: Robots in Diguise (IDW ongoing series)

Post by Onslaught Six »

That has been the origional Megatron's canonical motto since G2. That has been present in more than one iteration of the character since G2.
Since G1, actually.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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