Dom wrote:The problem is that some of the more obsessive and vocal fans do not like reboots.
They don't like reboots because they're usually unnecessary and don't pan out good, and because they're usually done very poorly and messy and without a proper send-off to the original stories, just like Prowl said.
If DC announced today that they were officially rebooting the Batman film franchise again, I'd be fine with it, because the last movie was a well-done send-off. Likewise with the Spiderman franchise--which wasn't as well-done but at least had a kind of "ending" where a lot of its overarching plotlines coalesced into a thing.
If Marvel announced, however, that they were rebooting the Iron Man franchise after IM3? That'd enrage me, because it makes no sense to do so at this juncture--there's still a lot of life left in there, and this universe has a lot of room for Tony Stark and Iron Man in it.
I don't mind reboots when they make sense. Transmetropolitan is one of my favourite books, but it had a beginning, middle and end--and boy did it end, a long-ass time ago, too. If they chose to reboot it, or somehow integrate its main character into the mainstream DC universe, I wouldn't mind at all. (I might be apprehensive, depending on creative team, but I wouldn't immediately reject the idea.) Likewise with Valiant's new Shadowman--I haven't gotten around to reading it yet, but the last new Shadowman comics were around 2002 or so. I have no problem with that guy getting rebooted.
If they market this well, with the intention of bringing mainstream readers back to the comic stores, then it could actually help Marvel and the industry as a whole.
Honestly, the fact that they don't have an honest-to-God set of Movie Universe comics astounds me. Marvel and Disney know enough about the future of their movie universes that they could easily write some "inbetweener" comics that could be take-it-or-leave-it in terms of continuity bits. (For example, there are enough no-name dudes in superpowered armour for Tony Stark to punch out on the comics page that will never make it into the movies, or were even integrated into other characters. Movie Whiplash cribbed elements of the Crimson Dynamo, so there could easily be a comics-only Crimson Dynamo who was a different type of character.)
The same could arguably be said about DC. After I saw The Dark Knight, the first thing I did was run to a bookstore to buy some comics based on it. I didn't find any, and walked out with The Killing Joke instead. (Kind of regret it, too, if only because I paid $18 for The Killing Joke.)
We can probably kiss Gruenwald's run on "Captain America" and David's run on "The Incredible Hulk" good-bye. The only problem with this is that we should have done both about 15 years ago, because neither run has been relevant for at least that long.
The reboot just means that Marvel is going to stop pretending that those runs are relevant, and that the fans have to accept that said runs are no longer relevant.
The important thing that comics fans need to learn is also that just because those runs of comics are no longer "relevant," or may not have "happened," doesn't mean that those comics actually physically blink out of existence! In fact, Marvel will probably continue to reprint them for as long as they continue to sell. (I can go out right now and buy a fresh copy of Crisis On Infinite Earths, which is arguably the least relevant reboot ever at this point.)
Under the New 52, Gaiman's Sandman is arguably overwritten. Never happened. That doesn't stop the comics from physically existing, though, and it doesn't stop them from being a great comic series. Watchmen has had things stapled onto it in the form of a half-dozen prequel stories, but that doesn't in any way physically change how good the original comic is. Valiant (and Acclaim's) Shadowman runs are now arguably overwritten, but they are still readable and entertaining, even if they didn't "happen" anymore. And that's the important part.
Dragonball Z recently got a "remastering" abridged version in Japan and the US, called Dragonball Z Kai. Basically editing down filler so that it was "closer to the manga version." Essentially, retconning the series, the same way a comic reboot does. But at the same time, the original series is still on sale and still available--and still as good as it ever was. People who prefer the original are free to go back and enjoy it. And, nothing is stopping us from actually discussing it.
If Peter David's Hulk run gets retconned out, that's totally fine, but it doesn't mean we can't stop and actually talk about it. That discussion just won't be relevant to the current status quo. If someone asks, "Who can beat Superman in a fight?" the first response is usually, "Pre-Crisis Superman, or Post-Crisis?" You can acknowledge the old still existing as long as you recognize that it's old and no longer technically "relevant."
Prowl wrote:Do yourself a favor and never get into Japanese heroes. Kamen Rider Fourze's adventures were over and done in 50 episodes, and the next week his show was replaced with Kamen Rider Wizard's.
Yeah, this. I actually love the Japanese model for a few reasons--not only does it pretty much guarantee your story will have a fucking ending, but it also guarantees that it's going to end before it gets too unweildy and crappy.
That Tweet I sent in response to Roberts a few weeks ago has more truth to it than most of the other things I've said: Every good story has to end, because if it goes on too long, it'll become bad. Inevitably.
Dom wrote:(I have still not quite gotten over "Spider-Man: The Clone Saga". Seriously, I still cannot read a 616 "Spider-Man" comic without having some association with that god-awful two years worth of comics ~20 years ago.)
In all seriousness, read the new Scarlet Spider. It almost redeems that entire thing.
ShockTrek wrote:I get why Anderson is little miffed. Example: I like Baskin Robins Dacquiri Ice. A few years ago they changed the flavor of it and it was terrible. And I was miffed that I would no longer be able to enjoy my favorite ice cream. Fortunately the next summer they changed it back and it's been back to the same ever since.
Here's the thing, though: Let's say they kept it changed. They never changed it back. You might be disappointed, but I'm assuming you'd act like an adult, and either find a new flavour to get (maybe even one you'd like better!) or start getting some other ice cream at a different place, like TCBY or something.
It's like with Beast Hunters and me, right now! I'm not really interested in Beast Hunters, or Prime in general. So I just...don't really buy it. I buy Generations when it's good, and the rest of the time, I either don't buy anything, or I find a different toyline I'm interested in. (GI Joe is usually great for this. When TF is boring or bad, Joe is usually kickass.) I don't sit around bitching that Beast Hunters is terrible and they should "change it back" or anything. (Well, okay--I do sort of do that a little bit, but that's because this is a TF discussion board, and it keeps coming up.)
Mr. Anderson, welcome back! wrote:There were many stories I enjoyed and remember fondly that made the characters I like what they were. I had no desire to see them wrapped up and ended, no.
Why not, though?
I mean, okay. I like RID! RID ended in 2002. (Maybe 2003 for the toyline.) There's nothing new coming out of it. Occasionally, IDW or TFCC will put one of the characters in some comic books, but even then they're usually some weird mangling of them or they're in a different universe or whatever. (IDW's Skybyte has probably never been to Earth, and hasn't had to deal with Black Convoy stealing his thunder.) And I'm okay with that! I don't need the adventures of Fire Convoy and God Magnus to be indefinitely extended forever. They show up, they have an arc, and then they die or ride off into the sunset.
I mean, take a look at Back To The Future! (That's a franchise everybody here loves, right?) There were three whole movies out of that, and they were all pretty great. (Your enjoyment of Part 3 relies entirely on how much you like Westerns.) But the story *ends* at Part 3. Marty McFly is in 1985, where he belongs, and Doc and his family get to travel through time forever on a flying steampunk train. There *are* some further adventures in the universe, sure, like The Ride and the recent Telltale video game, but essentially, that franchise is done after the third movie. And that's fine! You don't need to indefinitely continue the life of Doc Brown or Marty McFly.
Sometimes, there just isn't anything else left to tell. The first Jurassic Park movie could have ended right there. In fact, JP3 largely implies that Alan Grant's life has mostly been a series of boring lectures and Being A Paleontologist, exactly as you'd expect it to be, until something else interesting happens to him--like getting pulled back to JP to rescue a kid. But you don't need to see what happened inbetween there, because it's not interesting. Just like, for example, Bruce Wayne's future life in the Nolan universe is probably pretty uninteresting!
I mean, sure, some things can get sequels and have the stories continue on, but it's got to make sense. Batman Beyond didn't have a Bruce Wayne in the future who had been fighting crime since 1992 or whatever--it had an old-ass Bruce Wayne who got fucking old, because that's what people do. They get old and they, eventually, die. And if the events of Batman Beyond hadn't happened, that's probably exactly what would happen to Bruce Wayne. He would get old and die, uneventfully. Rather than come up with some convoluted reason for why he's suddenly young again, or why time hasn't continued, or whatever, they just do what makes sense for reality--unlike comic books.
I mean, alright, there are obviously some superheroes who, arguably, COULD continue on indefinitely. A lot of more modern heroes have "functional immortality" on their power sets. In Dark Knight Returns, Superman is no visibly older than he is during Batman's heydey, even if Bruce is 60 or so. Wolverine can functionally outlive most of the X-Men without looking a day older. But! The world around them has to change, and evolve, and we have to acknowledge that time has actually passed, if we want the book to be taken seriously at all.
If I start a comic book today, and say, "This takes place in 2013," I don't think it's unreasonable to think that a year from now, the year in the comic will be 2014--unless the comic explicitly states otherwise. One of Willis' webcomics is set up in a way that one year of real time is basically one day of in-universe time, which makes it easy for him to explain why the characters aren't aging.
If Batman is established to have started Being Batman "five years ago" in 2013, it's not unreasonable to expect that in about five years, Batman will say he's been Batman for "about ten years." And on top of that, we, as readers, should expect that Batman should look and act about five years older than he did in the book we read five years ago.
TF has actually been better about all of this than most. While its books arguably don't happen quite in "real time," the books usually jump forward a year or so to compensate whenever the creative team changes. (All Hail Megatron probably takes place over the course of a month or so, given a conservative estimate, but took place over about 16 months real time. When Costa took over with the Ongoing, it was said to be about a year since AHM.) And the changes it makes usually tend to stick better than most comics. (We bitch, but the number of characters who have died and stayed dead is a much better estimate than Marvel or DC, who regularly kill and revive fourth-tier characters I've never even fucking heard of.
I get the feeling that Dom sees fans who don't like the major changes as crybabies, stamping their feet and saying "I want what I"ve always had!" And yeah, that would be childish, but I doubt that's the way it plays out, most of the time.
You don't know any other comics fans, do you?
Prowl wrote:The Vol. 2 trade is out, I neeeeeed to get it.
You should send somebody your single issues when you do...just sayin'...
