TF Views

BWprowl wrote:

Shockwave wrote:Dom, I really need to hear your reasoning on Episode 3 vs. 6. I just can't get behind 3 because it's the one that screwed the continuity.

I don't claim to be an expert on Star Wars canon, but what exactly is the big screw-up in Ep3? I'm not doubting you, I'm just genuinely curious and it's been a while since I saw that movie?

I mean, surely Episodes 1 and 2 had done enough damage to the canon already.

1 and 2 hadn't really done anything that couldn't have been explained later. 3 totally screwed it. There's a scene in Jedi on Endor where Luke asks leia about her real mother and she replies that "she died when I was very young." NOT AT FUCKING CHILDBIRTH!! Which is what happens in 3. From the dialogue in Jedi, Leia was old enough to have vague memories of actually being with her mother while she was alive. By having Padamame or Panda Bear or whatever the hell her name was die at childbirth, 3 directly contradicts Return of the Jedi.

Y'know, reading all this just reminds me of why I'm done with Star Wars. I don't know if the last few movie just ruined the first few for me, or if I just was never that into it and am just sick of the whole thing, but man, everything in Star Wars just sounds like bullshit anymore.

Also, part three? Yeah, that movie...well, it was better than the second one, I guess. Barely. But after suffering through the first two in the prequels, was it too much for the third one to finally for crying out loud have Darth Vader in it? Or have Vader actually do something to earn the badass villain rep that he seems to have in the first one? What's his face in bad hangover eye makeup taking out baby Jedi isn't exactly an impressive feat of villainy. I'm not alone here, am I? Anyone else feel like for as much Darth Vader teasing as we got through that whole damn series, the movie could have delivered some Vader? That's far from my only complaint with the movie, but it's the easiest to make.

138 Scourge wrote:everything in Star Wars just sounds like bullshit

Contemplating new sig

Shockwave wrote:There's a scene in Jedi on Endor where Luke asks leia about her real mother and she replies that "she died when I was very young." NOT AT FUCKING CHILDBIRTH!! Which is what happens in 3. From the dialogue in Jedi, Leia was old enough to have vague memories of actually being with her mother while she was alive. By having Padamame or Panda Bear or whatever the hell her name was die at childbirth, 3 directly contradicts Return of the Jedi.

Isn't it entirely possible Leia was talking about Senator Organa's wife? I mean, she had always been under the impression that those two were her real parents, right?

BWprowl wrote:

Shockwave wrote:There's a scene in Jedi on Endor where Luke asks leia about her real mother and she replies that "she died when I was very young." NOT AT FUCKING CHILDBIRTH!! Which is what happens in 3. From the dialogue in Jedi, Leia was old enough to have vague memories of actually being with her mother while she was alive. By having Padamame or Panda Bear or whatever the hell her name was die at childbirth, 3 directly contradicts Return of the Jedi.

Isn't it entirely possible Leia was talking about Senator Organa's wife? I mean, she had always been under the impression that those two were her real parents, right?

No. Luke explicitly asks "Your REAL mother." Meaning not her adopted ones.

Scourge, no you're not alone. That is one of the other complaint I have with the prequels. We were supposed to see the epic rise of Vader, not be left with one scene where he just stands there yelling "Nnnnooooooooooo!!" and whining like a bitch the whole time. And the reasons for joining the dark side seem completely forced and hackneyed and... and... and...

Yeah, I'm just gonna shut up now.

BWprowl wrote:seriously, Luke’s entire ‘arc’ in this film is that he *doesn’t* undergo any development until the end when he realizes how badly he screwed up). And then there’s that stupid part about Luke going into the magic cave that cuts down the framerate and kinda-sorta foreshadows the truth about Vader except it’s about him turning to the Dark Side NO SERIOUSLY WHY IS THAT THERE?

What? The Jedi training is all about change and development for Luke. As Yoda points out, Luke must 'unlearn what he has learned'. Starting the Jedi training so late in his life, he has all of these emotional attachments and preconceived ideas about what's possible, something we see Luke struggle to let go of every step of the way, and ultimately gives into when he runs off to help his friends. We also get a sense of what a fine line Luke walks with the Dark Side, particularly with the cave. As Dom said, that sequence is meant to reflect Luke's emotional baggage he takes with him into the cave.

Return of the Jedi also highlights the changes in Luke as he's nearly completed the training by then. Luke presents himself as extremely self confident, calm and collected, until he starts letting his emotions get the better of him on the Death Star. But that's the final challenge for Luke, to give into his emotions or learn to overcome it, ultimately choosing the path towards Jedi or Sith.

But…why was the cave even there? Did Yoda just use some Jedi pixie dust to magic up a cave where he could teach headstrong Jedi trainees an important lesson in anger management? Is Luke dreaming? Why does the screen go all woodly? Why does the scene just kind of *happen* without any lead-in or build-up other than Luke going ‘Oh hey there’s a cave over there’? Why doesn’t he so much as mention it to Yoda afterwards?

There's likely a reason Yoda chose that planet for his self imposed exile in the first place. It's possible that planet could have been used as a secluded Jedi training ground (as some of the books/comics explain). Given the swamp setting, there could be any number of gasses or plant life that cause Luke to hallucinate in that cave. The atmosphere we already know is enough to jam the X-Wing's instruments. And who knows, maybe Yoda was manipulating Luke or the environment with the Force.

Shockwave wrote:No. Luke explicitly asks "Your REAL mother." Meaning not her adopted ones.

Most fans theorize Leia could use the Force to some degree (after all, the Force is strong with the Skywalker family) in order to have some memory of Padme. As Yoda said in Empire Strikes Back, "Through the Force, things you will see. Other places; the future; the past. Old friends long gone".

Midiclorians.

Sparky Prime wrote:

Shockwave wrote:No. Luke explicitly asks "Your REAL mother." Meaning not her adopted ones.

Most fans theorize Leia could use the Force to some degree (after all, the Force is strong with the Skywalker family) in order to have some memory of Padme. As Yoda said in Empire Strikes Back, "Through the Force, things you will see. Other places; the future; the past. Old friends long gone".

Yeah yeah, I've heard that one before too but we all know damn well that's bullshit. At the end of the day, Lucas phoned in Episode III and screwed the continuity in the process. I'm sorry but that particular point was really the deal breaker for me.

Shockwave wrote:

Sparky Prime wrote:

Shockwave wrote:No. Luke explicitly asks "Your REAL mother." Meaning not her adopted ones.

Most fans theorize Leia could use the Force to some degree (after all, the Force is strong with the Skywalker family) in order to have some memory of Padme. As Yoda said in Empire Strikes Back, "Through the Force, things you will see. Other places; the future; the past. Old friends long gone".

Yeah yeah, I've heard that one before too but we all know damn well that's bullshit. At the end of the day, Lucas phoned in Episode III and screwed the continuity in the process. I'm sorry but that particular point was really the deal breaker for me.

I know I'm not qualified to talk about Star Wars, but Trekwave has a point. When you have to start filling in gaps for the IP owners... you've got plot holes, simple as.

Watch, the next version of Return of the Jedi that Lucas puts out:

LUKE: What do you remember about your mother?

LEIA: Not much. I just remember her being a shimmery blue ghost lady, is all. Why?