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Re: Comics are Awesome III

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:12 pm
by Sparky Prime
andersonh1 wrote:That was one of the selling points of DC You: story over continuity. I thought it was a bad idea, and continuity mix-ups like the one you describe prove the case. You should have been able to read the final issue of Sinestro's series, then pick this issue up and have them flow seamlessly together in a continuing narrative. But instead there are discrepancies that get in the way of just enjoying the ongoing Green Lantern narrative, because characters are not where they should be, and there is no explanation. Maybe one will be forthcoming.
Yeah, I knew that was a terrible idea when they announced it and this goes to show exactly why. Ignoring continuity never works and only serves to causes more problems than they set out to solve.
Green Lanterns #1 showed Hal in his GL uniform with his ring, when he had last been seen with the Gauntlet and renegade outfit in his own series, and there was no explanation, but we got it this week. Things were just published out of story order. So maybe we'll get an explanation for Sinestro's condition that fits with his series. We'll see.
Maybe, although I kinda doubt it. I get the feeling they're just going to quietly gloss over a few things in the interest of keeping the story going.
Did you notice that on the cover, the design of Hal's ring changed between the ads for this book that appeared last month, and the final cover this month? In the ads, Hal has an old style ring with Sinestro reflected in it. On the actual cover, it's the band with the curved symbol that we see in the issue itself.
You know... I knew something looked different but I hadn't looking close enough at it to figure out what it was.

Re: Comics are Awesome III

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:14 am
by Dominic
Outside of comic fans, which both DC and Marvel are trying to move beyond, continuity does not matter as much. Obsessing over stuff from years/decades past is why we have back-writes like 1950s Captain America (a scab which Marvel went back to pick less than a decade ago....despite it being mostly healed over). If there is a change in creative teams (or editorial direction, certain things are going to be discarded.

A good example is the last few years of "Iron Man". Gillen's run nominally fit in with Hickman's (now-expunged) run on "Avengers". Taylor's "Superior Iron Man" run followed out of "Axis", which did not fit well with other things Marvel published. The end of Hickman's "Avengers" recognized "Superior Iron Man"...sort of.

The current Bendis "Iron Man" nominally adheres to the previous runs. But, aside from "Tony was adopted" (which Bendis may have mandated), nothing from those runs has been referenced. A recent sourcebook says that Tony was restored to normal....somehow or another, after "Superior", but it offers no details as to what happened. (Bendis's original statements about his run indicated that he would be picking up thematically from the movies, which would have been close enough to the end of "Superior". But, aside from establishing that Stark does not recall the lead-in to "Secret Wars", there has been nothing to reference earlier runs.)


This is only a real problem if the writers or editors keep referencing something that has been changed, without explaining what the change is. "Squadron Supreme" is the worst offender in this regard, actually creating new baggage on top of old baggage that it is carrying. There are other series that have this problem, but "Squadron Supreme" is easily the worst.

Post-"Secret Wars", Hickman's "Avengers" and "New Avengers" runs (along with things that tie in directly to them) are assumed to have not happened. On page, this creates an 8 month gap where....stuff happened. (In real time, it is ~2.5 years.) Marvel has never clarified what happened (either old stuff being counted or new stuff replacing older stuff that is being over-written).

The problem is that some series keep referencing that 8-month window in ways that are necessary, but also so vague that it is impossible to know what happened. If Marvel had simply moved on, I would not care. But, they are still tripping over something from close to a year ago. (It does not ruin any comics that do not call back to the 8-months. But, it shows a lack of planning by Marvel.

The only solution is to rely on a degree of fanon, which I dislike doing but see as necessary in this case.

I assume that the 8 month gap was filled with something that is closer to what Marvel was likely planning (and at least what many fans anticipated) following the "Age of Ultron" comic.

-time was catastrophically destabilized. (Age of Ultron)
-timelines collided or were otherwise wiped out. (What if...?)
-Avengers become aware of problem.
-Hyperion's timeline (among others) is destroyed. (Hyperion's time with the Avengers has been referenced since "Secret Wars".)
-Assume "Ultimate" and 616 were always merged...it is just easier that way.
-Avengers and other heroes address and solve the problem of the multiverse collapsing, saving most timelines.
-some characters remember what happened before history was altered. They just have to live with what they know.
-"Axis", "Original Sin", "Avengers World" and similar titles still count. (All were "one-way" tie-ins to Hickman's runs, so they could still work with new content.)


Of course, that still leaves significant blanks and questions. Marvel should probably just move on from the 8 months, or address is specifically. (I would prefer the former.)

Re: Comics are Awesome III

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:48 am
by andersonh1
Dominic wrote:Outside of comic fans, which both DC and Marvel are trying to move beyond, continuity does not matter as much.
If anything, the failure of the New52 and DCYou show that trying to move beyond the loyal fanbase by jettisoning continuity (or rather, by jettisoning history) is a tricky thing to do. In fact, I think DC brought a bunch of lapsed readers back with the New 52, but very few actual new readers. And then over time sales declined to the point that after four years, they tried a new continuity free-for-all direction with DC You, and that approach bombed very quickly.

I think you have to differentiate between continuity, which is simply consistency from issue to issue, and history. There's no need for any given monthly comic to dwell on the minutae of a story from 2010, or 1996, or 1965. They can if they want to, and they can use old stories to build new ones, but understanding those stories should be an option rather than a requirement so the reader isn't locked out. That makes sense, though I have to say that I had a lot of unknown stories and unknown characters when I started reading comics, and no internet to clear things up. And I just persisted until I learned what I needed to know. The first Green Lantern I saw on the printed page was G'Nort, and I remember thinking "why is Green Lantern a dog?" I didn't know about the Corps or any other Green Lantern except Hal, who I presumably remembered from SuperFriends. There was no text box explaining who G'Nort was... I just stuck with the books until I learned what was going on and who was who. I don't think it's too much to expect readers to show a little patience and do a little homework.

But when Sinestro has Parallax at the center of a prison planet in one issue, and he's suddenly old and gray with Parallax imprisoned at the heart of Warworld the next month, there's a problem. The continuity that should always be there from month to month is what makes a linear narrative function on the most basic level. Without continuity, things make no sense and things fall apart.

Re: Comics are Awesome III

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:31 pm
by Sparky Prime
Dominic wrote:Outside of comic fans, which both DC and Marvel are trying to move beyond, continuity does not matter as much.
andersonh1 wrote:I think you have to differentiate between continuity, which is simply consistency from issue to issue, and history. There's no need for any given monthly comic to dwell on the minutae of a story from 2010, or 1996, or 1965. They can if they want to, and they can use old stories to build new ones, but understanding those stories should be an option rather than a requirement so the reader isn't locked out.
Exactly. I get trying to get away from decades of history, a lot of which has become irrelevant to modern day stories (but it also can provide some new directions for new stories as well), but continuity is essential in telling any story. A reader (comic fan or not) expects the story to stay consistent from one issue to the next.

Re: Comics are Awesome III

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:22 am
by Dominic
I was initially under the impression that the change happened with a reboot in between, not within an arc (or a relatively short run).

Re: Comics are Awesome III

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:49 am
by andersonh1
Justice League #1
"The Extinction Machine" is the title of the story, and Hitch wastes no time jumping right into a world-threatening event for the League to handle. Earthquakes rock the globe as the tectonic plates become more active, and the League have their hands full trying to stabilize things and save lives. Flash is on the west coast, Wonder Woman is apparently in the middle east, Cyborg is on the East Coast, Aquaman is in Atlantis, while the two rookie Green Lanterns are in Asia. Batman is dealing with a different but related problem in Gotham, and Superman is all over the place doing what he can to help. I have high hopes after the Rebirth issue and this one that we're finally going to get a writer who realizes that Superman is probably the equal of all the other League members put together, especially with the Martian Manhunter not a part of this version of the team, and who will write him accordingly. This is a book that goes for spectacle and moments as the problem is introduced and ramps up in the opening chapter of what will be a multi-issue storyline. And then the being behind it makes itself known through mind control of various people, and they're able to steal some of the League members' powers, such as the Green Lanterns' energy and Flash's speed, though Wonder Woman is unaffected.

This is the "summer action movie" book of the week. Lots of action, a massive threat for the League to handle, and some nice character moments, such as Superman working on his own with Batman and Cyborg monitoring him, and Flash maintaining his cheerful attitude while in dire circumstances. There's a nice sequence of him rescuing a little girl from a burning building, and he does it in the time it takes the girl's mom to drop her water bottle and for the bottle to hit the ground.

My one gripe, and I've made it before: why is Cyborg on this team? Is there a reason other than to be the token minority character when the New 52 launched? He's always been a b-list supporting character, and it's painfully obvious that he still is, despite being elevated to such a prominent role in the DC universe. Simon and Jessica are rookies who need support and guidance and don't have other Green Lanterns around at the moment to help, and they're also a lot less generic and a lot more interesting than Cyborg has ever been, so their presence makes sense. Cyborg seriously needs to be replaced with someone a lot more interesting. Just my opinion.

Superman #3
After Jon injured himself and got a concussion last issue falling out of a tree, Superman and Lois take him to New 52 Superman's fortress of Solitude, in order to use the instruments there to examine him and see if they can what's going on with his invulnerability, or lack of. I'm not quite clear yet whether it comes and goes, or whether he's only invulnerable to certain things (heat would seem to be one, given how the flames didn't burn him in the Lois and Clark series, and his heat vision doesn't harm him). They enter the fortress, only to find the Eradicator waiting for them. Superman immediately attacks, furious at its presence and the threat that the Eradicator represents. But when it saves Jon and Lois from falling debris, Superman gives it the benefit of the doubt. We learn some of the history of the Eradicator in this universe/timeline, but it's goal is the same: to preserve the purity of the Kryptonian race. It intends to purge Jon of his "corrupt" DNA... in other words, his human half. As it attempts to begin, Krypto jumps in the way and is absorbed by the Eradicator. As Superman goes back to fighting it, Jon picks up Krypto's lost cape, and the last panel is the kid looking furious, his heat vision about to flare up again.

This issue flew by. It felt like a very short read. Superman appears to be acting wildly out of character by immediately dialing it up to 10 and attacking the Eradictor on sight, but events prove him right about the threat the Eradictor poses to his family.

Aquaman #3
Abnett may be pulling a Geoff Johns on Black Manta, and making him a protagonist in the series. Before I get to the ongoing plotlines with Aquaman, I find it interesting that the story continues to follow Manta, as the (cringeworthily named) N.E.M.O. terrorist cell tries to recruit him. Yeah, I get it it, undersea world, Captain Nemo, very cute. At any rate, Manta easily takes out some of their operatives, but is convinced at last to listen to what they have to propose. He's still more than a bit stung by Aquaman having pointed out how empty his life really is, and the offer of something more than a revenge vendetta might actually appeal to him.

The Spindrift embassy has been closed due to Manta's terrorist attack on it, so Aquaman goes to find Mera and break the news to her. He's fixated on solving the problem, while she would be more than happy to give the whole thing up, but she'll continue to work on improving relations between Atlantis and the surface world out of support for Aquaman. There's some great commentary on the shallowness of the press when Mera gripes about how they insist on asking her about her hair rather than anything substantial. The two of them walk right up to the front gate of the White House and ask to be admitted. The guards are a little dubious until they figure out they aren't cosplayers.

So Aquaman and Mera have a conversation with the chief of staff, who admits this isn't how diplomatic channels normally work, but he's taking it seriously. There's plenty of good substantive material in the conversation, as the chief reminds Aquaman about all the damage the Throne of Atlantis events caused, and Aquaman brings up that he is a king, and an American citizen, and a well-regarded member of the Justice League. He has a record, and a reputation, and is dead serious about improving surface world relations.

And then everything goes south, as the Atlantean terrorist group from the Rebirth issue attacks and sinks a ship, leading to Aquaman's arrest. The charges are flimsy at best, but Aquaman insists to Mera that she do nothing, and allows himself to be taken out in handcuffs, maintaining that it's a mistake, and they know it's a mistake, and they will correct it.

I've been reading this book for a month now, and decided to go ahead and add it to my pull list. I think it's well-written. It avoided decompression with the first Black Manta storyline, resolving that in two issues. It's topical, with international relations and terrorism as issues that Aquaman has to deal with. And Aquaman is written with a certain level of maturity, not flying off the handle and getting in fistfights at the slightest provocation. He's acting like a leader who is trying to bring two antagonistic nations together, and he's having a tough time of it. My only real complaint is that we have the third artist in three issues. I expect rotating artists given the biweekly schedule, but I was still hoping for some consistency. I'm not sure DC are as committed to this book as they should be, if it's going to be the artist of the week dumping ground. A few more issues will tell the tale, but that aside, it's a very strong series.

Re: Comics are Awesome III

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:00 pm
by Dominic
"Contest of Champions" ended yesterday. The last issue suffers for trying to do too much. (I get the impression that Ewing was planning on having another issue or two. Ewing does a good job of wrapping up the series, in the middle of an obligatory cross-over no less. And, he is the first post-Bendis writer to handle Iron Patriot correctly. But, this issue lacked the honest stupidity of previous issues. (This was the first issue did not offer something to laugh about.)

I am currently trying to decided with title bothers me more, "Earth 2" or "Squadron Supreme".

I love the concept of "Earth 2", and it has so much potential. But, it has ended two consecutive issues on painful cliche.

"Squadron Supreme" is coasting on sentiment. The most recent issue seems to promise more direction than the series has had thus far, and it reads well enough. But, the things it is accounting for really should have been addressed in previous issues, and it arguably adds baggage. (Marvel is wholly ignoring "Secret Wars" at this point. "Squadron Supreme" is the third time I have seen a world ending event that was not depicted as an incursion. And, this issue specifically rules out Zarda having spent time on Battleworld.)

Right now, "Squadron Supreme" has the edge, if only for reasons of sentiment.

Re: Comics are Awesome III

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:20 am
by Sparky Prime
DC and IDW have announced two crossovers, following the success of previous crossovers. Batman/TMNT Adventures, which will be based on the Animated Series versions of the characters this time around. And Star Trek/Green Lantern will be getting a follow up.

Re: Comics are Awesome III

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:59 am
by andersonh1
Action Comics #960
"Path of Doom" continues, and it makes some forward progress this issue. Wonder Woman arrives to help against Doomsday, rescuing Clark Kent and pulling him away from Doomsday as Superman reappears to press the fight. Superman borrows "a trick from the Flash" and starts hitting Doomsday with super-speed punches, reaching about 4000 hits in a few seconds because he's counting them. I was amused. :) He actually bloodies up Doomsday before the creature stops him and fights back. Jon and Lois are back to watching the fight on tv, and Jon shouts so loud cheering on his dad that he shatters the windows, continuing the theme of him not really knowing how to control his powers. Doomsday, 300 miles away in Metropolis, hears the shout and actually leaves the fight to go investigate.

There's a conversation between Superman, Wonder Woman and Lex Luthor where they discuss Doomsday's origins, which Luthor admires and finds fascinating. The story is taken from the three part Superman/Doomsday prestige series from the mid-90s, which Jurgens wrote and drew (so he ought to remember it!). Among other things, we're reminded that Doomsday hates anything to do with Krypton, and both Lois and Clark separately realize the probable significance of Doomsday's retreat, because he'd never leave a fight. Lois takes Jon and leaves the farm, only to be found by Superman as they leave. But Doomsday finds them as well, and the issue ends with Superman urging them to get as far away as they can, while he and Diana fight the creature. There's a nice scene before that happens where Lois and Diana meet for the "first" time, and both are very gracious to the other. Who are these calm, mature, friendly DC characters and where have they been for the last five years?

After four issues, this book remains heavy on plot and action (appropriately) with nice character moments in between the other scenes. This style of comic storytelling is one that I enjoy. The story feels like it has dragged a bit after four issues and lots of hints with very little resolution, but that's my only real complaint. Taken as individual issues, they've all been enjoyable.

Detective Comics #937
After a Batman-light issue two weeks ago, this one gives Batman plenty of page time to be awesome as he escapes from the soldiers who have him trapped and who are inventorying his utility belt. He's in the Colony's base, and after some exploring, he runs across the teenage tech support genius who explains (after some threatening from Batman) that this whole thing started with the events of Zero Year, which I think was Scott Snyder's New 52 origin story for Batman. The military saw Bruce alone do what whole squads of their soldiers couldn't do, and they've been monitoring and studying him ever since, learning his methods and fighting style. They've built a whole unit of soldiers who have the skill and to some extent the weaponry of Batman... a small army of Batmen, built to fight the League of Shadows. Batman dismisses that as a myth, but Kane assures him that they are not a myth, and they're a very real threat, and that an army is what's needed to fight them, not one man. Batman refers to the man as "uncle", which makes sense since Batwoman is his cousin, but I hadn't really thought about it until now. The issue ends with Batwoman, Robin and the others arriving at the base to attack the Colony and rescue Batman.

It's an interesting concept, and having a military unit model themselves on Batman makes good sense. Given how effective a fighter Batman has trained himself to become, without any superpowers at all, it follows that he would catch the attention of someone who would try to do what he had done. And the story mitigates a lot of what Kane is doing, because his methods and reasons for employing them, assuming he's telling the truth, make sense. He's the best kind of villain: one who thinks he's doing the right thing, and is in fact at least partially justified in his actions. But I still wonder if there's a plot twist or two down the line.

Titans #1
"The Return of Wally West" is the storyline, and it very much appears that Wally will be the main character in this ensemble book, at least for now. All the Titans get things to do and a scene or two to contribute to the plot, but the main storyline is the Titans investigating their memory loss and Wally's report about the timeline having changed. Lilith is trying to get inside his memories and learn what she can, and the first thing she learns is that he's constantly thinking about Linda Park. He gets some ribbing from his friends about this, since they don't know her, and we get some flashbacks to Wally in the traditional Flash costume, meeting her, and their marriage... but still no mention of Jai and Iris. It's an omission that I hope is corrected down the line. Linda herself gets some scenes where she recalls Wally appearing to her from the Rebirth special, and she decides to go investigate.

And in the final pages of the book, Lilith thinks she's done too much probing of Wally's memory and awakened someone who should have been left alone. It turns about to be Barry and Wally's old enemy, Abra Kadabra, the magician from the future. He claims to have been the one who made Wally West disappear. And unlike the other books I'm buying, I'll have to wait longer for the next chapter since this one's on the old standard monthly schedule.

Hal Jordan and the GLC #1
Robert Vendetti's writing style and the voice he gives Hal Jordan have become very familiar after three years of reading his Green Lantern, so this issue doesn't feel so much like a new beginning as much as other Rebirth titles have. Hal's back on track and wearing the Green Lantern uniform again, and he's searching for the Corps, but his dialogue and the aliens he encounters feel like any other alien criminals we've seen in recent years. There's not a lot of spark or innovation to the dialogue and action. That being said, the actual overall storyline has a great deal of promise. The Sinestro Corps have supplanted the Green Lantern Corps throughout the universe, and Sinestro has decided that while he's finally achieved his goal of imposing order, the inhabitants of the universe will test him unless they are made to fear the Sinestro Corps. And so he sends his army out with orders to make everyone afraid. This behavior is entirely in character for Sinestro, and it's exactly what he's been shown to have done in the past, primarily on Korugar. And he absorbs power from Parallax to regenerate himself physically, so he's no longer old and frail.

Two of Sinestro's followers have the misfortune of running into Hal as they head out into the universe, and they're shocked to find a Green Lantern right in front of them, since they understandably believed all the GLs were gone. But the last few pages show Mogo, John Stewart, Guy Gardner and all the others emerging from the white void, having escaped the collapse of the previous universe. John says that he thinks they're home.

The writing lacks punch, but the art is a few steps up from Billy Tan. I'm glad he's off the series. There are so many plot threads to tie up that I wonder just how many Venditti will get to? We don't know how the Lanterns were sent to the previous universe (though how people in the universe saw it happen is described in this issue), we don't know where the Templar Guardians are, we don't know what was going on with Relic and Krona, we don't know what Hal did with the gauntlet of Krona, and all the inhabitants of the last city that escaped into this universe need to be resettled. All of that is in addition to the story itself, with the GLs struggling to regain what they've lost to the Sinestro Corps.

Re: Comics are Awesome III

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:10 am
by Dominic
Which is better, "Detective Comics" or "Batman"? (I have yet to start either.) The idea for the current run of "Detective Comics" sounds good. And, with DC rebooting every so often, they can safely explore it (knowing they can make it go away inside of 10 years.)


"Hyperion" ends next issue. It looks like it is going to end in the middle of a "Civil War II" cross-over, and then be folded in to "Squadron Supreme". Wendig seems to be prioritizing for wrapping up main plot points more than anything else. (I am betting that Iron Man will help Doll and the dog relocate, unless Robinson has plans for them in "Squadron Supreme".)