TF Views

Dominic wrote:Even the co-dependency is arguably a step too far.

So much of this series is "space robots acting like human sitcom characters" and "having the character interactions that people on forums want to see". It just feels so fannish that I almost expect straight up fan-fic elements like shipping to start turning up.


Dom

Dom, you spend too much time and pay WAY too much attention to the whining on forums. I mean, we've seen so much of what TFs do when they fight/war/die what have you that it's only fair at this point to see what TFs are like when they laugh/love/live. We've never seen this before and that right there makes this better than previous series. And personally, I think it's been handled well. Not only do we have those humorous elements but there have also been a lot of deeper themes and ideas in this series as well.

BWprowl wrote:

Dominic wrote:Even the co-dependency is arguably a step too far.

Not really. It says right in the back of every issue that Chromedome 'relies on Rewind to keep him honest'. That's a canon element of the characters, right there.

It just feels so fannish that I almost expect straight up fan-fic elements like shipping to start turning up.

I think the question here is: How would it be fannish/fan-fic if it was the author putting those elements in his own story? At what point does 'Characters having a relationship in the story' become 'shipping'? Would it really affect the story *at all* if Chromedome and Rewind identified each other as lifebond partners instead of reporting buddies? This is what I'm getting at: That romantic relationships between characters in fiction doesn't automatically constitute 'shipping' and it isn't automatically bad.

This. Why do we ONLY have to see TFs fighting? Why shouldn't we see how they love? And why should that only be limited to male/female? Especially in a series where the characters are inherently asexual anyway, would that even qualify as "homosexual" relationships or just plain relationships? Now, I'm not saying I wanna see two bots getting it on, cause that's just weird, but seeing bots experience love, or some emotional bond would certainly be worth exploring.

I agree that Dom cares way too much what other fans are saying about this series. I'm enjoying it on its own merits and that's enough for me.

This is what I'm getting at: That romantic relationships between characters in fiction doesn't automatically constitute 'shipping' and it isn't automatically bad.

It feels like shipping, especially in this book. It comes across as fannish, like much of the book does.

Dom, you spend too much time and pay WAY too much attention to the whining on forums. I mean, we've seen so much of what TFs do when they fight/war/die what have you that it's only fair at this point to see what TFs are like when they laugh/love/live

We have gotten that before as well. Hell, RiD is giving us some of that. The war is over, and now they have to rebuild the planet's infrastructure and its political system. The difference is that Barber is doing that without the meme fodder that Roberts is throwing around.

This. Why do we ONLY have to see TFs fighting? Why shouldn't we see how they love?

Because, in this case, Roberts is falling back hard on the old scifi cliche of "aliens is like people derp". And, in this case, it is just to give us "awesome character interaction" like having them sitting around watching movies in Rewind's quarters and getting drunk. Who fucking cares? Barber relies on that cliche as well, but at least he has some ideas to go with it. (Yes, MtMtE has a high concept of "they are aimless", but I am still not quite sure I see why that makes the book worth reading.)



Dom
-admits that MtMtE has flashes of brilliance, but....

It feels like shipping because you're paying too much attention to the fandom and not the story itself. Seriously, you really need to take a break from those parts of the fandom sometimes. This book has gone way beyond just "aimless" because that aimlessness now has far more reaching implications and that means that there are a lot of deeper ideas being expressed here. So we get all of that AND "awsum character interaction" in a way that we haven't before. Frankly, I don't need my TF books to ONLY be about conflict. And let's face it, RID may have elements of aimlessness but it's still about conflict. They may not always be fighting physically (although that still happens too) but it's stil "teh robots am fighting".

Dominic wrote:

It feels like shipping, especially in this book. It comes across as fannish, like much of the book does.

You said that you hadn't even noticed it before going to the Allspark and reading the forums there.

True. But, it sounds like a fannish idea in a book that is notable for being fannish.


Issue 11:
Roberts's flashback sequences are unified by the concept of unintended consequences. In previous issues, Whirl is shown to have contributed to Megatron eventually founding the Decepticons. In this issues, Shockwave accidentally introduces Prime to several future Autobots. And, Shockwave is shown to have been effectively created by the same corrupt regime that the Decepticons initially rose up against. And, that is where the book becomes fannish. Shockwave's origin just feels like a fanfic that I would have read back in the late 90s, during the summer months (when "Beast Wars" was in reruns). And, Swerve finding a can of "Nightmare Fuel", (ohohohohoho, a TV Tropes reference!), was just eye-rollingly stupid.
Grade: C

The good parts of this book are consistently buried in fan appeal.


Dom
-might drop MtMtE next year.

You sure get by on 'feelings' on your review of this one, don't you Dom? "Shockwave's origin works with the theme of the book and has some nice dramatic irony to it, but it just 'feels' like something I might have read in a fanfic decades ago, therefore it's bad!" Come on, at least hate the book for more tangible reasons than that.

I actually liked this arc, for the record, since it was fairly concise, managed to stay (relatively) on-topic, used world-building in a positive, story-relevent way, and featured a flashback version of Skids who wasn't an annoying tool. On the other hand, it also featured a line where Swerve pointed out that one quick part of the story was just worthless side-content, meaning that Roberts is *aware* he does that sort of thing, but has no intention of stopping. It also continued to feature very little altmode use, despite the fact that Roberts's Transformers yak constantly about the fact that they transform.

The good parts of this book are consistently buried in fan appeal.

I think this speaks to a serious issue regarding your, uh, issues with this, um, issue. "Fans of Transformers might like this Transformers comic, therefore it is bad." Really? I mean, really?

For the record, "Nightmare Fuel" isn't, strictly-speaking, a tvtropes reference. The term actually originates from MST3k which, given the context the story and the way the characters treated it, is rather fitting.

An MST3K reference is not much better here.

The big problem with "More Than Meets The Eye" is that it reads too much like it was written "for transfans" and not like it was written to be a comic on its own. What is going on in this book for a non-fan? There is nothing wrong with writing a comic that might appeal to fans. But, at times, this comic seems to be written almost exclusively *for* fans, with Roberts coasting primarily on that.

Except, since MTMTE began running, I've been able to introduce at least two or three people to it, who were sold on the premise of "Transformers in space having adventures." Even TF fans who aren't really TF fans (by which I mean they don't have the extensive knowledge we do) are sick of the mainstream Optimus Fights Megertron bullshit and are looking for something a little different.

Fuck, I gave my girlfriend Issue 7 (I think that was it--the first one with the Scavengers) and said, "Read this," and she loved the shit out of it. And she's not a TF fan. She has only seen what I've shown her, which is the animated movie, a few scattered episodes of G1, some Beast Machines and RID, and Masterforce. (I think I may have made her read Last Stand of the Wreckers or All Hail Megs also.)

"Transformers in space having adventures" has been done to varying degrees elsewhere. And, really, what sets "TFs in space having adventures" apart from "any assholes in space having adventures"?

I do not care about the characters. Yeah, great. Red Alert. Wow. I had that toy as a kid. Why is Red Alert important? Why are Rodimus or Drift worth my time and money to read about? Roberts has been inconsistent (at best) about giving me a reason to care about the TFs or their adventures in space.


Dom
-likely dropping this book in the next few months.