Comics are Awesome II

[BWprowl]

I just think that it would be an interesting experiment to do this in something resembling real time. DC did this in the 1970s and 1980s, using the (aged) JSA characters to set up for "Infinity Incorporated". Had they followed that trend, the Huntress and other hiers would be dead/retired by now. "The Dark Knight" just assumed a narrative jump. But, imagine seeing Batman age a little every year. Imagine something like what DC did with the JSA or even Marvel with the Invaders/Avengers without back-writing things. Imagine a book like "Fantastic Four". Franklin Richards would be in his 50s. He would the patriarch of the Richard's family, likely with grandkids of his own. Imagine the possiblities for the comics we could get.

I would let up on "give me an impressive idea" if the events would flow and stick more meaningfully.

At a more basic level, I get sick of reading the same comics over and over. I also get sick of picking up a book after having not read it for years, and having seen changes from when I was reading it (or stuff I heard about after) having been so cleanly undone that it may as well have never happened.

Dom
-"For Super or for Worse", think about it.

I can kinda understand it myself, honestly (One reason I absolutely loved Greg Weisman Disney-show W.I.T.C.H. was for it being a ‘superpowered group of kids’ show with almost no status quo whatsoever), I just didn’t have you figured for someone who cared about such things.

As I recall, the original TMNT comic line did this to a degree, with the comic volumes that came out in the early 2000’s featuring the Turtles in their 30’s. And those featured some substantial (if decidedly ridiculous) upsets to the status quo.

All things considered, you might want to look into Japanese comic series JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure. It’s not a ‘cape’ book per se, but it does primarily focus on superpowered heroes and their continued struggles with world-threatening supernatural foes. It’s been running since the early 80’s with the defining trait being that the protagonists and other main characters are perfectly capable of growing old and dying or even being killed in battle, and having to be replaced by their generational descendents (successors to the line of ‘JoJo’, as the series focuses on). It begins with a ‘Part I’ set in the 1880’s, and is currently running in ‘Part 10’, which takes place in modern-day. It might be the multi-generational liquid-timeline superpowered action hero comic you’re looking for. The only caveat is that it’s actually never been published in America, save for a cursory run of ‘Part III’ some years ago, and you would have to download scans/translations if you wanted to read through the massive thing, and I know/understand how you feel about that. Still, I would suggest that you at least skim a Wikipedia article or something, just to get a feel for how the series works, since I get the impression that it swings very close to what you’re asking for here.

[Shockwave]

It works in Japan so why can't it work here. This could also apply to O6's theory of how floppies/trades should be handled.

[Onslaught Six]

I feel like I've made my point enough so this is just going to be some scattered replies:

I would argue that Marvel's TF series actually pulled this off back in the 80's, even managing to have an 'ending' before wearing out its welcome. Of course, now that storyline has picked up again with ReG1, but even that's carrying on from the previous status quo, and is slated to really end for reals this time we mean it after twelve issues.

20, actually. Word is RegenOne will last until Issue 100.

...Right, and what Six was trying to say was that his statement was hyperbolic in the extreme, and that he obviously didn't actually mean that all comic books or even all stories with time travel are stupid (he's expressed love for many examples of both repeatedly in all the time we've known him), and that taking that statement at face-value and using its obvious hyperbolic incorrectness as the crux of the argument in which you went about proving him 'wrong' was a very, very silly thing to do.

This! Clearly not every story is going to be crappy. But the overwhelming majority of them are--and more importantly, the industry touts these cruddy stories as the "best of the best" and acts like they're the greatest things out there.

But, imagine seeing Batman age a little every year.

I largely suspect that Dark Knight Rises' 8-year time jump was more a case of 8 years actually having passed between the release of Batman Begins and TDKR--if we assume Begins takes place in 2005 (and Dark Knight taking place a year later in 2006ish) then it makes sense--and justifies why none of the characters actually look that much older.

As I recall, the original TMNT comic line did this to a degree, with the comic volumes that came out in the early 2000’s featuring the Turtles in their 30’s. And those featured some substantial (if decidedly ridiculous) upsets to the status quo.

By that point, actually, Laird had turned the book into something resembling a weird anthology series. Individual issues could take place in contemporary times, the Turtles' adolescence, or near their deaths. (I seem to recall one issue featuring a super-old Leonardo who was the last surviving Turtle.)

All things considered, you might want to look into Japanese comic series JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure.

Mango in general is pretty good about this--just look at Dragonball! Gohan is clearly being groomed to be the protagonist by the end of the Cell sagas; then they brought Goku back because of whiny fans. Goku starts the series as a child but is a full-grown adult by the last few arcs of the original series (before DBZ).

[Sparky Prime]

...Right, and what Six was trying to say was that his statement was hyperbolic in the extreme, and that he obviously didn't actually mean that all comic books or even all stories with time travel are stupid (he's expressed love for many examples of both repeatedly in all the time we've known him), and that taking that statement at face-value and using its obvious hyperbolic incorrectness as the crux of the argument in which you went about proving him 'wrong' was a very, very silly thing to do.

O6 comments are not always so obviously hyperbolic. The way he was presenting his comment was that all of those stories are stupid, regardless of the context of the story. Dom even said as much at one point in one of the arguments he made about it. So no, I don't see how it was silly to point out that not all of those stories are stupid at all given the positioning of the opposition.

[BWprowl]

O6 comments are not always so obviously hyperbolic. The way he was presenting his comment was that all of those stories are stupid, regardless of the context of the story. Dom even said as much at one point in one of the arguments he made about it. So no, I don't see how it was silly to point out that not all of those stories are stupid at all given the positioning of the opposition.

Alright, fair enough. Let's just get the record straight now so we don't end up chasing our tails: No one actually thinks that every single story ever written involving time travel, alternate dimensions, or dead people coming back to life is terrible, right? We all liked Back to the Future, right? Right?

[Sparky Prime]

Alright, fair enough. Let's just get the record straight now so we don't end up chasing our tails: No one actually thinks that every single story ever written involving time travel, alternate dimensions, or dead people coming back to life is terrible, right? We all liked Back to the Future, right? Right?

Agreed.

[Shockwave]

Alright, fair enough. Let's just get the record straight now so we don't end up chasing our tails: No one actually thinks that every single story ever written involving time travel, alternate dimensions, or dead people coming back to life is terrible, right? We all liked Back to the Future, right? Right?

Agreed.

And seconded.

And to both provide yet another example of a good story with those elements and to sort of get the thread back on topic:

Assimilation ^2 (the Star Trek TNG/Dr. Who crossover): Here's an example of a good story that just plain could not exist without some of the afforementioned elements. One of the main characters is a timetravelling alien in a time machine spaceship in a completely unrelated property (ie: another universe). This just couldn't happen without those elements. And they are used very effectively in this story. There are several things I like about this, not the least of which is the art. It looks more like painted rather than traditionally "drawn", which allows it to look more like reading episodes of either Dr. Who or TNG. And that's how it should feel. The story also does a really good job of showing two similar villain races from the two properties and how they are similar yet different at the same time. Parts of the story are moving along fairly slowly but it stays true to the characters and flow of your standard episodes of both shows so the pacing is forgivable.

[Dominic]

I had a chance to stop by the comic shop the other day and took that chance to sort out a bit more of my pull-list.


Ultimates #15-17:
These issues wrap up "Divided We Fall" and begin "United We Stand". Aside from bordering on being polemicomics, these are actually pretty good. Through a contrived set of circumstances that do not make much sense in the context of a capes and tights book, (if anything, they make even less sense in a capes and tights setting than they would in the real world), Captain America ends up being President of the United States. I am genuinely curious to see where Marvel is taking the "Ultimates", both the book and the line of books. Given that the "Ultimates" line of books is relatively isolated, there will be less drive to restore them to an artificial stasis quo after a few months. The big changes here might stick. I am not adding any more books to my pull file, but will likely keep an eye on this one.
Grade: B


Dom
-planning to empty the pull-file soon.

[Dominic]

This was a light week. 1 obligatory, 1 discretionary and 1 that I should have picked up last week.


-Team 7 #2:
The team manages to root out the Eclipso infestation on that floating prison thing. The narration boxes are from the Black Canary's perspective. Nothing especially brilliant happens this issue, but it moves along smoothly enough. There are some call-outs for other DC titles, including that Palmiotti and Grey western book that I refuse to pick up by virtue of it being Palmiotti and Grey. Thus far, New 52 Eclipso does not seem to have anything to do with Bruce and Monica Gordon, which tosses the old "Darkness Within" series out the window. This bothers me on a sentimental level, (as I really liked that series when I was a kid). But, it was a third tier book 20 years ago, so I cannot really complain. The external shots of the floating prison have a very "90s" quality to them.
Grade: B/C


Thor God of Thunder #1:
The high concept of this first arc is that Thor fights a diecidal monster across three generations. Aaron handles questions of practical theology (in the context of a setting that assumes gods and science co-exist in a day to day fashion). One selling point of this book is that it does not have any apparent tie-in to any other Marvel book. This series is probably worth keeping an eye on. Grade: C


Daredevil End of Days #2:
This issue shows Urich playing detective, investigating Daredevil's last words from the previous issue. Bendis does a good job of conveying street level atmosphere. The art is stylized, but clear enough to be comprehensible. Still, this series is not grabbing me enough to subscribe. I may or may not pick up the next issue. Grade: C



Dom
-currently reading "Age of the Sentry".

[Dominic]

Judge Dredd #1:
Back in the mid-90s, DC comics tried to import "Judge Dredd" when that Stallone movie came out. There were two Dredd-centered books. To be fair, both did a fair job of capturing the tone of the "2000 AD" feature. The main book even went so far as to reconcile itself with the original strips. I admit to really liking Dredd, (both those books, and the occassional UK issue that I would find), when I was 16 or 17. But, for whatever reason, I am not so in to IDW's new series, despite it being similar to the comics I once would have praised. This is likely a function of my standards having gone up over the years. And, while IDW's Dredd has yet to become politicized, it is all but guaranteed to become politicized over time. IDW's "Judge Dredd" is not the worst book that I have bought this year, but it is not one that makes the cut, especially when I am looking to whittle down my pull-list for next year.
Grade: B/C


And, now to bring TigerMegatron's threads "home" to the comics thread:

Angel and Superman are both characters from a time when comics were not written or drawn to a particularly high standard. The comics did not need to be competent, let along particularly *good* in any respect. Truth be told, as a comics reader, one of the painful truths I have had to confront about my beloved hobby is that I would be hard pressed to find much of anything worthwhile published more than 5 years before I was born. The foundation of the hobby, and the medium, is kind of crap.

That said, neither Angel nor Superman have power sets that are appreciably more difficult to reconcile than any number of other characters from the Silver Age, or even the modern age. (Apply what most any middle-schooler knows about heat and conduction to a character like Iceman, and watch a premise unravel.)

Angel having wings is less problematic than the fact that he was able to hide them so effectively for so long.

Post "Crisis on Infinite Earths", Superman's power were reconciled as being the result of Kryptonian physiology, his ability to metabolize Earth's yellow sunlight and low level psionics. Superman had strength, speed and physical resistance to injury. He could survive purely on sunlight. And, as shown in various issues of the comics, (going back to Byrne's "Man of Steel"), Superman had an aura of damage resistance (independent of his physical traits) that protected objects (such as clothing) that were in contact with his body. Both that, and Superman's ability to fly/hover have been associated with some degree of (sub-concious) psionics.

Is that transparent back-writing? Damned straight it is. Would any competent editor just green-light a character with Superman's power set without a good reason? We would hope not. Are modern characters with similarly, (or even better), defined power sets lambasted by fans? Damned straight. But, Superman has history, and there really is no good way to handle such a character without angering long-term fans.


Dom
-and hey, who wants to talk about where the Hulk's mass comes from?