TF Views

So if the original multiverse was restored, with every infinite possible universe in it, shouldn't that mean the "old DC" universe exists again somewhere within the restored multiverse?

Two ways to answer this...


Fanboy way:
With the original "Crisis on Infinite Earths" prevented, there would have been no way for post-"Crisis" Earth to exist, hence no universe for the Bronze Age Superman and Lane to return to.


Better way:
Depends what DC plans to do. DC seems to want to keep the new and avoid the old. The first issue of a series featuring the Bronze Age Superman says that the old universe is gone, and make no reference to a state change after they left the Convergence planet.

Looks like DC wants the old stuff is gone.

Dominic wrote:Fanboy way:
With the original "Crisis on Infinite Earths" prevented, there would have been no way for post-"Crisis" Earth to exist, hence no universe for the Bronze Age Superman and Lane to return to.

By that logic, the New 52 shouldn't exist either as it was the result of subsequent multiverse tamperings. But there is a simple explanation to explain how any post-Crisis universe exists: The multiverse having been restored to infinite universes contains any and every possible outcome.

Better way:
Depends what DC plans to do. DC seems to want to keep the new and avoid the old. The first issue of a series featuring the Bronze Age Superman says that the old universe is gone, and make no reference to a state change after they left the Convergence planet.

Looks like DC wants the old stuff is gone.

DC is definitely dedicated to sticking to the New 52 universe. However, given the fact they just launched a title that focuses on a Superman from the previous universe as a result of Convergence, the old stuff is not gone. Just because Superman doesn't say their Earth might be back after they prevented CoIE's doesn't mean it isn't. Certainly it all depends on what DC decides to do in the future, but the way they've presented the story, they've left the door wide open.

Dominic wrote:With the original "Crisis on Infinite Earths" prevented, there would have been no way for post-"Crisis" Earth to exist, hence no universe for the Bronze Age Superman and Lane to return to.

This is the post-Crisis Superman, not the Bronze Age. The Bronze Age Superman is the version that started with "Kryptonite Nevermore" in 1970 and was last seen in 1986, before John Byrne restarted Superman with "Man of Steel". Bronze Age Superman did appear in Convergence week 3, but that's clearly a different version of the character than the one that married Lois.

One would argue that the post-Crisis Earth had to have existed despite the change in the outcome of the Crisis, or else this Superman and Lois Lane could not exist since they are native to that timeline. Whether it's still out there with all the other timelines and universes is unclear. You would think that Superman and Lois would take their son there if they thought it was possible to do so. Maybe Hal/Parallax couldn't find it.

Sparky Prime wrote:There is a New 52 version of the Eradicator. It was Supergirl's computer AI in her Sanctuary of Solitude. When she brought Powergirl for a visit, it flipped out and made a robotic body for itself to eliminate what it believed was a clone of Kara.

Okay, thanks. Of course, they don't have to stick with the original origin for the Cyborg Superman if they decide to recreate him, but his use of the Eradicator was what allowed him to pass as Kryptonian during the "Reign of the Supermen" storyline. Since that's not an issue now, Jurgens could easily go in another direction entirely, or even have Henshaw remain human.

This is the post-Crisis Superman, not the Bronze Age. The Bronze Age Superman is the version that started with "Kryptonite Nevermore" in 1970 and was last seen in 1986, before John Byrne restarted Superman with "Man of Steel". Bronze Age Superman did appear in Convergence week 3, but that's clearly a different version of the character than the one that married Lois.

I have seen the Silver Age described as lasting until '85 or so (with "Crisis on Infinite Earths" being the end). Either way, the Superman in "Lois and Clark" was the '85-2011 Superman. (And, as stated above, there were arguably three iterations of Superman during those years.)

One would argue that the post-Crisis Earth had to have existed despite the change in the outcome of the Crisis, or else this Superman and Lois Lane could not exist since they are native to that timeline.

Simplest explanation there would be that Superman and Lois were outside of time when their native timeline was destroyed/over-written. Either way, I would assume it is gone.

By that logic, the New 52 shouldn't exist either as it was the result of subsequent multiverse tamperings. But there is a simple explanation to explain how any post-Crisis universe exists: The multiverse having been restored to infinite universes contains any and every possible outcome.

At this point, it is easiest to assume that nothing pre-q4 2011 counts unless DC says otherwise. There are usually logical contradictions following various resets. They might get addressed. They might not.

Preventing "Crisis" also wipes out "Multiversity". (52 universes =/= infinity.) Of course, given that "Multiversity" was being drafted in '06 as a follow up to "Infinite Crisis", it is not reasonable for DC to keep it nearly a decade later. (Still, I would like to see more of Morrison's Earth-10, unlikely as it is that DC will use it.)

And, if we assume that "Crisis on Infinite Earths" (and whatever follow-up) has been removed, then we should probably assume that DC is going to redo "Crisis on Infinite Earths". The Anti-Monitor showing up in "Justice League" supports this.

Dominic wrote:At this point, it is easiest to assume that nothing pre-q4 2011 counts unless DC says otherwise. There are usually logical contradictions following various resets. They might get addressed. They might not.

Well when we've got some Pre-New 52 characters living in the New 52 universe, I don't think we can assume that nothing pre-2011 counts. Clearly something counts with those characters back. Not to mention, the Justice League 3001 series is supposed to take place in the future of a Pre-New 52 universe as well (as the writers of that series established when they brought Booster Gold and Blue Beetle into it).

And, if we assume that "Crisis on Infinite Earths" (and whatever follow-up) has been removed, then we should probably assume that DC is going to redo "Crisis on Infinite Earths". The Anti-Monitor showing up in "Justice League" supports this.

Maybe they'll redo CoIE someday when they decide to do another reboot, but the Anti-Monitor currently appearing in Justice League has nothing to do with that. He's not the same Anti-Monitor, he's a new version with a completely different origin and motivations.

Star Trek/Green Lantern #4
This story runs in place, but it remains a fun mash up of franchises regardless. It's fluff though, and there's not a lot of plot apart from characters meeting and clashing. We find out that Kyle Rayner was killed in this continuity. Larfleeze puts the Romulan Praestor in place, much as Sinestro put General Chang in his place last issue. Atrocitus and the Gorn show up and enter the fray, and Sinestro attacks with a fleet of Klingon ships. He disables the Enterprise crew by making them all afraid, during which time the things they're afraid of are detailed, after which Hal takes a seat in the Captain's chair of the Enterprise and creates a much larger ring-construct Enterprise around it, with the registry number NCC-2814 on the hull, as he prepares to fight back. I've seen gripes that this book is nothing but continuity porn, but surely that's the whole point? All the same, it does look like we're finally getting to some sort of major confrontation, especially as Black Lantern Vulcans are seen on the final page.

Doctor Who: 9th Doctor #3
It's a chaotic issue as the two enemies we've encountered in issues one and two clash at the secret temporal weapons bazaar, and the 10 minute warning is sounded. The barzaar is on a planetoid in a time bubble that's holding back an exploding supernova, so once the bubble does down, the planetoid will be destroyed along with everyone on it. The Doctor is apparently killed, but he turns up talking to one of the aliens in a void outside of time, and we get some Russell Davies-era anti-religious sentiment from the Doctor when the alien calls herself the mother superior. Jack and Rose are trying to escape in the TARDIS when the protective barrier goes down and the supernova burns the planet.

It's a middle chapter, though anyone reading the book who thinks either the Doctor is actually dead, or that Rose and Jack will die, doesn't know their Doctor Who. The characterization continues to be dead on, including the 9th Doctor's bluster and "in your face" attitude about life. We get a glimpse of the 8th Doctor and the War Doctor as the alien probes the Doctor's brain while talking about the Time War, with John Hurt and Paul McGann's likenesses pretty well done. All in all, this continues to read very much like an episode that would fit right into Eccleston's year of Doctor Who.

Green Lantern Lost Army #5
I feel like I'm watching Arrow with that series' reliance on flashbacks alongside the present day story. John Stewart once again reflects on his experiences as a Marine in Afghanistan before we flash forward to the Lanterns still imprisoned by the Light Pirates. The squirrel Green Lantern finds some rings and a way to drop the cell doors, and the issue turns into a fight for survival and a scrounging for weapons. All the Lanterns, both from our universe and Relic's universe manage to get whatever light-wielding weapon they feel comfortable with and all escape, thanks to Krona and Relic shooting a hole in the side of the prison. Kilowog ends up with a staff rather than his ring, and notes that it will take some getting used to. The issue ends with the group finding Mogo, who is under attack from all sides by various energy collectors/batteries.

One issue of Lost Army to go, but at least the story will continue in another mini-series, and that's certainly a good thing. They've barely scratched the surface of the potential of this setting.

That limited series is the upcoming Taylor project? (When does that drop?)


And.....nothing for me this week.

My last (fortnightly) paycheck was shorted. (It was my own mistake that caused it, so I was not about to insist that payroll fix the problem immediately). And, PayPal is being exceptionally slow about moving money where I need it to be. (No joke. It actually rejected a transaction because I used Explorer. I grow to hate Google, and Chrome, more every day.)


What does this have to do with comics?


Well, I have had to take money out of the bank just to limp through this week. So, yeah, I would rather not spend money on comics just now. (Of course, this happens to be the week that the "Multiversity" compilation shipped.....) Nothing for me until Friday at the earliest (schedule allowing).

Dominic wrote:That limited series is the upcoming Taylor project? (When does that drop?)

Yes, it's "Edge of Oblivion", written by Tom Taylor and drawn by Ethan Van Sciver. It starts early next year some time, and they're already saying it's a six issue mini-series, not an ongoing.

It is on my radar. Gotta see what my pull file looks like in January. Taylor is already on my list with "All New Wolverine". But, I might drop that for Taylor's GL series.

On another note, Abnett is reportedly taking over "Earth 2 Society". I have yet to even start the current run.

Green Lantern #45
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I really don't like how Venditti writes the Black Hand. I get he's going for a mentally deranged version of the character, but Black Hand never stuttered and acted so... simple before Venditti took over. At any rate, basic fight issue between Hal and Hand here, as Hand finally finds a use for his Source Wall power, which is to try and turn Hal into a statue. Kinda interesting to see even constructs turn to stone. I don't see how Hal plans on returning Hand back to normal, but maybe we'll find out in the next issue.

Green Lantern Lost Army #5
So the Lanterns and the local Lightsmiths manage to break out of their cells and regain their weapons. It's interesting to see Kilowog ends up with a Lightsmith staff since the Light Pirates destroyed some of their rings trying to figure out how they work. I also have to say I like the mention from one of the Yellow Lightsmiths that they all used to work together before the Dimming. It's somewhat the opposite situation in the universe the GL's came from in that they only work together with the other colors when it's a dire situation. Anyway, Mogo is finally located but he's under attack from the Lightmith's Converters. This continues to be a great series.

Lobo #11
Lobo goes on the attack with the Red Lanterns, who are currently recruiting new members. Lobo's able to kill Dex-Starr taking him by surprise, but then he finds himself outmatched by the rest of the Reds. Lobo retreats to recover, and once again engages with Atrocitus whom he is able to kill, but then he finds the Rage Mother with the Central Battery has escaped, which he knows Sinestro isn't going to be happy about. Elsewhere, the Rage Mother reveals to Bleez that she is able to resurrect any of the fallen Red Lanterns by bringing back all of the Red Lanterns Lobo had just killed... Nice to see they aren't killing off all of the other Corps in this series as I feared they might. Although not sure I like how fallen Red Lanterns can be resurrected now, and Lobo still has too easy of a time killing Lanterns.

Star Trek/Green Lantern #4
The previous issue I'd said it looked like they forgot about Kyle Rayner during the Blackest Night scene, so it's nice to see they give a reason why that was in this issue. Interesting that he apparently became a White Lantern much earlier in the universe this version of Hal came from, and was the one to end the Blackest Night. Not sure how or why he'd give up that power though, allowing for the Black Lanterns to kill him during their second invasion. No mention given to the Life Entity. Spock also theorizes Nekron was able to follow them to the Trek universe being an aspect of Death itself. Rest of the issue is pretty much a fight book, with the various Lantern powered aliens attacking a Starbase, although it was fun to see Sinestro knock out the crew and Hal ends up taking command of the Enterprise.