Transformers - ongoing series

[Dominic]

Yeah, we know that the fandom is prone to skewing things.

How many people actively were displeased with ROTF's direction? Some said it may be one of the worse movies ever made, period. And it's got "TRANSFORMERS" plastered right on it. You can't tell me that didn't hurt people's opinions on the brand. (I know 86 actually kind of went through a crisis of identity because of this.)

Who said it is a bad movie? Critics? And, they determine public acceptance....at all? C;mon dude, you know better than that.

All 3 movies did ridiculously well at the box office. All 3 boosted the franchise's profile and brought in new fans.

Yeah, I hated RotF. It was everything that I do not like seeing in TF and much of what makes me avoid the summer action genre. But, I am not going to say that it appreciably harmed the franchise.

Most of the complaints were from people who would have thought less of it for being TF in the first place.


Dom
-also agrees with Costa's rather snappish points on the IDW forums.

[Shockwave]

I can definitely see his point about TF fans buying "TF comics" and not "Comics" in general. I'm very much like that. When I buy comics, it's because I like TF, not because I have any particular interest in comics in general.

And I'm surprised that Costa was able to give them such characterization if he views them as so difficult to write. For me, one of the things about Transformers IS the fact that, in spite of being mechanical beings from another planet, deep down, they are human. Where it counts. In their feelings, motivations, what have you. This is in fact, my one main gripe with the movies is that Bay and co made them look and feel TOO alien. They're better when they're written and designed to be more human. It's how the become characters that people can relate to or identify with. When you get too far away from that, they just become... well robots. That's when TF starts to suck.

[Dominic]

Maybe because Costa is a writer and worked with what he was given?

He did not come in and try to undermine the franchise because he did not think much of it, (like say, Morrison would have). Instead, he came in and *wrote*, and he managed to pitch over the heads of a large/vocal segment of the market.

The simple fact is that a large portion of fanbase are operating at the level of children, and Costa called them on that.

[Sparky Prime]

Well he certainly seems to have a bias opinion of Transformers fans. Saying things like there only being about 100 fans on the internet and none of them read comics except Transformers they're determined to hate? Not that I can really blame him for it as some of the more negative fans are certainly extremely vocal. But still, he's taking it too far himself. He makes some really good points in talking about the comic itself, but he's hurting himself in how he attacks the fandom.

[Gomess]

The simple fact is that a large portion of fanbase are operating at the level of children, and Costa called them on that.

He also pussed out, though.

And "calling out" is for bros. Real, creative people offer constructive methods of engagement and growth.

He just insulted us all and pussed out.

[Dominic]

I disagree Gomess. He is not our mother. He is not responsible for out growth as people.

Hell, I will come out and say it. That was ballsy. Finally, somebody in an official position called out the fans on being spoiled children. This should have happened in 1999, after the fiasco at the Hasbro panel. (I recall laughing at the first few questions. But, as the panel went on, it just got worse and worse and worse...)

Somebody official could have called out the fans in '01 after BM.

Somebody could have called them out during the UT, another time when Hasbro delivered on what fans claimed to want and still took heat.

it needed to be said. It has needed to be said at least since the end of the Beast Era, if not earler.

He just insulted us all and pussed out.

And, the fandom had it coming. I have been saying this for years.

Yeah, he talked to us that way. And, we (as a group) deserved it. Seriously Gomess, you need to look at the fandom. You yourself have said that you have been out for a while. Take a look around brochacho.

Costa could have said "the fans need to grow the fuck up", but that would not have gone over any better than what he did end up saying.

He could have said "read something new". But, most people would have responded that they do read some other sci-fi, or maybe (if they are really cosmopolitan) some other genre of fiction. (Maybe, some of them even took a writing class at a community college! And, those people are very smart you see.) That might have proven his point, but it would not have solved anything.

Saying things like....

Oh yeah. I fuckin' love Costa. He kept me in comics, and is still keeping me in. Hell, he is my favourite current fiction writer.

But, oh lordy, there were some cringe worthy statements.

The line about there only being a few hundred Transfans is one of 'em. Yes, it was obvious hyberbole. But, given the audience he was addressing, he was asking for trouble when he said that.

Saying Transfans were worse than other fandoms....uh, no. Just no. Are we really worse than Potter fans?

Saying that "GI Joe" was more respected that TF? Even if he has evidence, he should not be the one to point that out, It was just bad form.

Late edit: Also worthy of note was the line about "not reading comics", which arguably implies that Costa is limiting himself to comics.

Like I said, I agree in idiomatic terms, but it is not unqualified.


Dom
-wanted to have more or less inverse reactions to much of what Costa said.....

[Shockwave]

Maybe, some of them even took a writing class at a community college! And, those people are very smart you see.)

HEY!!

Are we really worse than Potter fans?

HEY!!

While you're at, why not make another comment about burning witches?

Shockwave
-Actually took a CC writing class.

[Dominic]

Ditto bro.

But, I also used my education to make money....if only for a little while before things went to hell in this country.

But, I stopped writing fanfic at around the time I started finding professional work with my writing. Hmmmm.... I wonder why.

And, yeah, I will say it, Potter fans are friggin' wacky. They take obsessive fan behavior to new depths.

While you're at, why not make another comment about burning witches?

In a few weeks, when I am probably going to see Mistress Belmont wrestle again.....



Dom
-either way, you know what I am talking about here.

[BWprowl]

But, I stopped writing fanfic at around the time I started finding professional work with my writing. Hmmmm.... I wonder why.

Because you didn't find writing for self-entertainment as entertaining as others may, but that's okay because you don't judge them just because they enjoy things that you don't?

And, yeah, I will say it, Potter fans are friggin' wacky. They take obsessive fan behavior to new depths.

Potterites are, frankly, no better/worse than other fanbases. They have a thing that they like, and they like it by...talking with people on the internet and writing low-rent fanfic and cosplaying and such. There's really nothing that sets them aside from, oh I don't know, Transfans, except for maybe the *volume* of said fanfic. While I'm less-than-impressed with the writing of the series and do think it's overrated, that's between me and Rowling, I try not to take it out on people who like things I don't like, particularly since I do know several people who do enjoy the books.

Now Sonic fans, those are a special brand of crazy.

To re-rail the topic somewhat: I mostly agree with Costa's comments about the fandom being immature and what-have-you, and maybe they had it coming with the way they talked non-stop shit on the guy through his entire run just because he had the balls to do something different (this is becoming an *infuriating* trend in Transfans too, btw, what with the shit guys like Skir and McCarthy went through. Incidentally, I loved the work of those guys, and Costa), but I personally think that one thing you're supposed to do as a *Professional* in this sort of thing is rise above the fans, and not stoop to their level of petty insults and name-calling when they try to get your goat. Maybe we were all thinkin' it, but Costa should not have been the one to say it. If the fans were mean to him before, he's gonna get shown no mercy now that this is out, and it could get dodgy, depending on how he reacts.

An aside: Know what I fucking LOVE about this situation? When David Willis says this sort of stuff about the fandom (and to his begrudging credit, he does) it's somehow okay. But you just KNOW in a day or two Willis himself is going to tear into Costa for these sound bytes.

The other thing I love is that I would bet good money that if Costa had written some of the stuff he had using characters from the tail-end of G1, or even a different series like RiD or something, it probably would have been okay, but since he messed with people's precious '84-'85 characters, everyone calls him a heretic (Is it wrong that I kinda look forward to the day when all the people who nostalgia over the intro years to G1 have died off, and we don't have to put up with this shit anymore?).

I really wonder what the hell it takes to make TF comic readers happy these days. Weirdly enough, maybe it would be better if more of them were like ShockTrek and didn't worry about paying attention to who wrote what, since it seems like these days the fans just automatically flip out the moment they see someone's name on the cover that isn't Furman or Roberts. I fear that we're quickly going the way of GI Joe fans and their precious Hama.

[Gomess]

But, I stopped writing fanfic at around the time I started finding professional work with my writing. Hmmmm.... I wonder why.

Because you didn't find writing for self-entertainment as entertaining as others may, but that's okay because you don't judge them just because they enjoy things that you don't?

Joke of the Week.