TF Views

One of the major purposes of Brightest Day #8 seems to be to clarify Hawkman's history.

- Hawkworld contains Nth metal mines
- It's a bridge between Earth and Thanagar
- humans came to Hawkworld hundreds of thousands of years ago, and eventually allied themselves with the manhawks
- they and the hawks now ruled by fear, based on the fact that they controlled the air
- some time after this, they discovered the portal to Thanagar and went there to conquer it
- 2000 years ago, a female from Earth arrived and took over the rule of the planet - and this turns out to be Shiera's mother

So Johns is attempting to make a link between the backstory and mythology of the Golden Age and Silver Age Hawkmen.

On another tangent, any of you ever played Planescape: Torment? The whole idea behind Carter and Shiera reminds me somewhat of the Nameless One in that game, in that he can't really die, and every time he's "killed" he comes back with no memory of his past lives. It's not exactly the same as Hawkman, who seems aware of his past lives, but he and Shiera keep coming back after each "death", and are trying to find a way to end that cycle, just as the Nameless One does.

138 Scourge wrote:Which one's the ninth? I forget. Is it "The Kindly Ones"? I love that one.

Yeah! I hadn't read any of the books in so long, I was confused at some of the stuff going on at first and actually flipped through bits of the others to get myself back up to speed. The amount of kickassery Gaiman pulls in that one is seriously amazing; characters from literally years ago showing up and being important. *That's* how you do continuity. Plus all the mythology! Goddamn Loki, the fuck. I can't wait to find ten, buy it, and read it.

The "Blackest Night" "fix" only makes things more convoluted. When I said "kill them and call it a day", I meant "kill them off, leave them dead, and politely ignore the corpses". Any other character using the name would be for copyrighting purposes, and would be explicitly different (and *completely* unrelated) characters.

- Hawkworld contains Nth metal mines
- It's a bridge between Earth and Thanagar
- humans came to Hawkworld hundreds of thousands of years ago, and eventually allied themselves with the manhawks
- they and the hawks now ruled by fear, based on the fact that they controlled the air
- some time after this, they discovered the portal to Thanagar and went there to conquer it
- 2000 years ago, a female from Earth arrived and took over the rule of the planet - and this turns out to be Shiera's mother

I give this 2 years.



Dom
-has given up on the Hawk-books long ago.....

Dominic wrote: Any other character using the name would be for copyrighting purposes, and would be explicitly different (and *completely* unrelated) characters.

Grant Morrison wanted to do that with Zauriel, the fallen angel, back during his early JLA days, but DC wouldn't go for it. I'm not sure I would have either, as a reader. I prefer the original character.

Onslaught Six wrote:

138 Scourge wrote:Which one's the ninth? I forget. Is it "The Kindly Ones"? I love that one.

Yeah! I hadn't read any of the books in so long, I was confused at some of the stuff going on at first and actually flipped through bits of the others to get myself back up to speed. The amount of kickassery Gaiman pulls in that one is seriously amazing; characters from literally years ago showing up and being important. *That's* how you do continuity. Plus all the mythology! Goddamn Loki, the fuck. I can't wait to find ten, buy it, and read it.

Awww yeah. The Kindly Ones is so amazing. Just talking about it here's made me pull out my copy again. Yeah, so much of the previous stories coming back for the conclusion is so damn good. And the artwork! Man, Marc Hempel's work in here is some of my favorite comic stuff ever. It's so cartoony, but works perfectly with a story that's pretty serious in tone. I can't say enough good things about it.

Y'know something I find kind of funny? My girlfriend likes Neil Gaiman's stuff, and yet, she'd never read Sandman, or ever really heard much about it. I know he's done plenty of other stuff, but I always saw Sandman as his big thing. Chalk it up to our age difference and the fact that she's not as into comics as I am.

andersonh1 wrote:

Dominic wrote: Any other character using the name would be for copyrighting purposes, and would be explicitly different (and *completely* unrelated) characters.

Grant Morrison wanted to do that with Zauriel, the fallen angel, back during his early JLA days, but DC wouldn't go for it. I'm not sure I would have either, as a reader. I prefer the original character.

I liked Zauriel okay. He was pretty good for what he was, which was a filler character, kind of. Because there's not much you can play around with as far as the regular JLA stars go. Not if you're just writing JLA, that is. So Zauriel, and Aztek, for that matter, gave Morrison characters he had a little more freedom with. I also didn't mind Zauriel being sort of a fill-in for Hawkman, but being someone completely different. Also, his origin worked for me on two levels. One, it's really a simple concept, very little explanation needed..."He's an angel that left heaven and now he's a superhero". You can't get much more simple and elegant than that. Also, his origin was kind of funny in a way. He sort of ripped off that "City of Angels" movie (the American remake was out at the time) where the angel sees an Earth woman and falls in love, but instead of her reciprocating that, the girl he falls for is like "Um, I've got a boyfriend. Sorry" and stays with her human lover. This, to me, is awesome.

Anyway, do we know for sure that Morrison wanted Zauriel to be a literal new Hawkman? I've heard that Hawkman was just forbidden territory at the time, and that Zauriel was created as a reaction to that, but not that he was supposed to literally take up the mantle.

I could get behind an entirely new Hawkman, too. Nothing against Carter or Katar, but a new version could be an interesting way to go, especially with some effort put into the design and the backstory. It wouldn't last, the fandom at large always wants the old guys back, but it could be fun.

138 Scourge wrote:Awww yeah. The Kindly Ones is so amazing. Just talking about it here's made me pull out my copy again. Yeah, so much of the previous stories coming back for the conclusion is so damn good. And the artwork! Man, Marc Hempel's work in here is some of my favorite comic stuff ever. It's so cartoony, but works perfectly with a story that's pretty serious in tone. I can't say enough good things about it.

Y'know something I find kind of funny? My girlfriend likes Neil Gaiman's stuff, and yet, she'd never read Sandman, or ever really heard much about it. I know he's done plenty of other stuff, but I always saw Sandman as his big thing. Chalk it up to our age difference and the fact that she's not as into comics as I am.

Funny you mention. Gaiman's on my girlfriend's radar because he's engaged to Amanda Palmer, one of her Favourite Musicians Evar. The chick who was in the Dresden Dolls. Good voice and not bad on the eyes, either. So after that, my girlfriend was all, "Okay, now I feel like I have to read Sandman," and I was all, "Well I should probably finish it then."

She still has the first two and hasn't finished the damned things. She blames lack of time.

138 Scourge wrote:

andersonh1 wrote:

Dominic wrote: Any other character using the name would be for copyrighting purposes, and would be explicitly different (and *completely* unrelated) characters.

Grant Morrison wanted to do that with Zauriel, the fallen angel, back during his early JLA days, but DC wouldn't go for it. I'm not sure I would have either, as a reader. I prefer the original character.

I liked Zauriel okay. He was pretty good for what he was, which was a filler character, kind of.

I liked Zauriel as well, just not as Hawkman. He was an interesting character.

Anyway, do we know for sure that Morrison wanted Zauriel to be a literal new Hawkman? I've heard that Hawkman was just forbidden territory at the time, and that Zauriel was created as a reaction to that, but not that he was supposed to literally take up the mantle.

According to Wikipedia, "In the Wizard JLA Special, Morrison made an appeal to the fanbase: "it's a good name and it seems a shame to let it go to waste. We're hoping that fans will figure 'For God's sake, let's just call him Hawkman and get him in the Justice League as Hawkman,' and the editors will relent. We're hoping to start a campaign." DC held firm, and the "Hawkman" name went unused for several more years.

I think I've got that special somewhere, so maybe I can look that quote up and confirm it's authenticity or not.

A temporary new Hawkman would be a terrible idea, and just make things worse.

in the Dresden Dolls

Smokin' hot stuff there!


Dom
-get it?

Would it really? Temporary, sure, but permanent?

I mean, Hal Jordan and Barry Allen are more iconic than their predecessors.

Speaking along similar lines...does anyone think that Grayson is going to go back to being Robin after Bruce gets back?

Dominic wrote:

in the Dresden Dolls

Smokin' hot stuff there!


Dom
-get it?

I see what you did there. (She really is quite the attractive girl, mind.)

Onslaught Six wrote:Speaking along similar lines...does anyone think that Grayson is going to go back to being Robin after Bruce gets back?

I think he'll go back to being Nightwing. I can't see him sticking with the Batman identity if Bruce is back... he'll want to be his own man again.