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Millar is talking about his predesessors as being the guys who have been working on the "Ultimate" books until more or less now, after he left the first time.


Dom
-"Archie" gets it this week.

Dominic wrote:Millar is talking about his predesessors as being the guys who have been working on the "Ultimate" books until more or less now, after he left the first time.

As I thought, but I still don't see how his criticizing the recent Ultimate stories is supposedly undermining those writers work.

Sparky Prime wrote:

Dominic wrote:Millar is talking about his predesessors as being the guys who have been working on the "Ultimate" books until more or less now, after he left the first time.

As I thought, but I still don't see how his criticizing the recent Ultimate stories is supposedly undermining those writers work.

Yeah, that sounds more like textbook douchebag to me.

Shockwave wrote:Yeah, that sounds more like textbook douchebag to me.

I still don't see how Millar voicing his opinion about the recent Ultimate stories makes him the bad guy here. So what if Millar happens to think the recent Ultimate stories have been bad? Is he not allowed to voice his own concerns over how the story has been handled just because he's one of the writers? I don't think so. Not to mention, the majority of fans of the Ultimate line actually agrees with him. Reactions to Loeb's writing on Ultimates 3 and the entire Ultimatum story line have been overwhelmingly negative.

You know on a freedom level of being an American with an inherent right free speech and all that bs, yes he CAN say it. That does not however, mean that he SHOULD. As a writer for Marvel, it's not his place to openly publicly criticize another Marvel writer's work. Whether he's correct or not is irrelevant, it's bad form at best and at worst is unprofessional, bad marketing, rude and very unclassy. It's like he held a press conference to say "yeah, the work of all of my coworkers sucks so bad that I constantly have to go back and redo their work for them". Like I said, textbook douchebag. I mean, honestly, WTF makes him so special? You know, after hearing about this, I'm boycotting him, I don't need to be reading anything written by someone so full of themselves.

I retain my position that I read *nothing* the big two come out with, and if they keep going at this rate, I probably never will.

And public infighting within the organization isn't going to inspire you to start reading them now, is it? Which really proves my point, at the very least from a marketing/publicity standpoint.

Shockwave wrote:You know on a freedom level of being an American with an inherent right free speech and all that bs, yes he CAN say it. That does not however, mean that he SHOULD. As a writer for Marvel, it's not his place to openly publicly criticize another Marvel writer's work. Whether he's correct or not is irrelevant, it's bad form at best and at worst is unprofessional, bad marketing, rude and very unclassy. It's like he held a press conference to say "yeah, the work of all of my coworkers sucks so bad that I constantly have to go back and redo their work for them". Like I said, textbook douchebag. I mean, honestly, WTF makes him so special? You know, after hearing about this, I'm boycotting him, I don't need to be reading anything written by someone so full of themselves.

There is a huge difference between not liking what his co-workers have done with the story and saying as much and going so far as to say something like "the work of my coworkers sucks so bad I constantly have to go back and redo their work". Not having read the actual interview, I obviously do not know what exactly he says but from what Dom has said about it, he most certainly does not step that far out of line, or else I'm sure Dom (among many others) would have said as much and this would be a completely different conversation. I don't think anyone would say anything so tactless though. Personally, I think you are blowing this out of proportion. I'd agree it could potentially be unprofessional to state he did not like his co-workers recent work, but that all depends on exactly how he phrased his words. And to me, it doesn't sounds like he was unprofessional about it. Regardless, the man is allowed to voice his opinion. Heck it'd be nice to have more guys at Marvel saying what they thought bad stories were. Then maybe we could avoid messes like "Ultimatum" or "One More Day" among others.

Sparky Prime wrote: I'd agree it could potentially be unprofessional to state he did not like his co-workers recent work, but that all depends on exactly how he phrased his words.

No it doesn't. At the end of the day, there's a limit as to how professional one can be about saying they don't like their coworker's work. And in any phrasing the underlying implication boils down to "Your work sucks, mine is better", which is going to make you the resident douchebag in any office anywhere. The fact that Millar said this publicly on a national level is what makes his comments that much worse. At this point, I can't help thinking about how the recent Ultimates writers feel about it. I mean, here they are having produced a work of creativity putting their hearts and souls into stories that they thought were good and they believed in, just to have Millar come along and publicly make comments that boils down to "Their work sucks". If someone undermined my work like that, I'd be pretty pissed and I hope he's a pariah around the Marvel offices. I'm sorry Sparky, but there's absolutely no good spin you can put on this and I can't fathom why you're defending him.

Shockwave wrote:And in any phrasing the underlying implication boils down to "Your work sucks, mine is better", which is going to make you the resident douchebag in any office anywhere.

How do you know if there is even such an underlying implication in what he said? Do you know what he actually said? Have you read the actual interview? If not, I really do not see how you have any basis to make that claim. I don't see anything in what Dom posted about the actual interview to give any such indication beyond that Millar thought the recent Ultimate stories have been bad. Again, it's like I said, it all depends on how Millar actually phrased it. But just saying he doesn't like the recent stories in no way means he is saying "yours sucks, mine is better". You are over exaggerating things a bit.

At this point, I can't help thinking about how the recent Ultimates writers feel about it. I mean, here they are having produced a work of creativity putting their hearts and souls into stories that they thought were good and they believed in, just to have Millar come along and publicly make comments that boils down to "Their work sucks".

I really think Millar's opinions are the least of Loeb's concerns these days. The quality of his work has been declining for a while now. I mean, I have yet to see any positive reviews for Ultimates 3 or Ultimatum. I've seen plenty of criticism on plenty other titles he has worked on for both Marvel and DC as well. Not to mention he was asked to leave (read: fired) from "Heroes" a couple seasons ago. So really, why should Loeb care if one more person doesn't like his recent work?

If someone undermined my work like that, I'd be pretty pissed and I hope he's a pariah around the Marvel offices.

You can't please everyone. There will always be someone to criticize what you've done, especially when it comes to any form of art, like writing. The best you can do is take it in stride and move on.

I'm sorry Sparky, but there's absolutely no good spin you can put on this and I can't fathom why you're defending him.

I seriously can't believe the over-exaggerations you're making over this. You're making it seem like Millar said something terrible when that isn't what Dom actually indicated from the interview. I'm just trying to put it more into perspective.