Here's one for the "retro comics that are not awesome" list...
I wasn't aware of this until recently, but DC have been reprinting the Superman stories from the mid-80s, starting with John Byrne's "Man of Steel" miniseries. The trade paperback series itself is called, appropriately, "The Man of Steel". I remember a lot of these stories, but haven't read them in years, and when I saw that my local library had six volumes, I checked a few out and took a trip down memory lane. Dom might remember these stories fondly as well.
When these issues were actually on store shelves, I wasn't reading comics yet. I actually started reading about the time Byrne left (in fact, my first issue was one with Mike Mignola drawing and featured the Silver Banshee, whichever one that was) and I had to go through the back issue bins to catch up on a year and a half worth of issues, though I never did get them all. There are a lot of good ideas, and some storylines I had forgotten, such as Perry White's son being mixed up with gangs, or the beginnings of Jose Delgado's run as Gangbuster. I always enjoyed Jerry Ordway's rendition of Superman and the rest of the cast, and it's nice to read the mostly intertwined Superman and Adventures of Superman series in order.
However, to get to the "not awesome" moment, I seriously have to wonder what the point was of having a two part story where some scummy reject from Apokolips captures Big Barda and forces her to make porno tapes. Seriously. Not that the tapes are depicted on panel, but it's clear what's been going on. And then the villain is able to exert mind control over Superman too and tries to make a tape of Barda and Superman having sex. Was there any redeeming value in this scenario? I'm not seeing it. It's so absurd that Darkseid himself shows up in Scott Free's living room and lets him know what's going on, for reasons we're never privy to. Not out of any sense of decency, I'm sure.
Byrne did some great work on Superman, but those two issues are not his best, by any means. They serve no larger dramatic purpose, and seem more than a little misogynistic.
Retro Comics are Awesome
-
andersonh1
- Moderator
- Posts: 6468
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:22 pm
- Location: South Carolina
-
andersonh1
- Moderator
- Posts: 6468
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:22 pm
- Location: South Carolina
Re: Retro Comics are Awesome
My most recent DC archive has turned out to be interesting in one sense, while also being more than a bit formulaic in the storytelling than some of the others. I bought the Black Canary archives this past week and have begun working my way through the stories. The character first turns up in Flash Comics as a semi-villain in Johnny Thunder's comic, and within about five or six issues, replaces him. This is in the late 40s, so we're nearing the end of the Golden Age super-hero boom. I don't know how many other female characters DC had other than Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl, but it can't have been many.
Dinah Drake defies some expectations of what you might expect a female character to be like in the 1940s. She's obviously brave, and tough enough to go out and take on thugs and gangsters on her own. She is a business owner, and runs a florist shop. Her would-be boyfriend, Larry Lance, is a rather ineffective private detective who patronizes her in a generally good-humored way, while she gives it right back to him. Both of these characters are written with strong personalities and bicker so much that you know they'll end up together eventually.
Black Canary doesn't have her sonic scream at this point. She has no superpowers, so she's a street-level character. What she does have is a choker around her neck that's the equivalent of Batman's utility belt. By which I mean that she can pull from it whatever is needed to solve the problem of the day, whether that be a small knife to cut herself free once she's been captured, or whatever the plot demands. This item is never explained, and some of the life-saving items it produces cannot possibly fit inside, so maybe this was meant to be her superpower? I don't know, and given that most of the stories are no more than six to eight pages, there's not a lot of time for exposition.
And that brings me to the other drawback of this series: the repetitive plots. As I said, the stories are only six or eight pages, so there's not a lot of time, but it quickly becomes apparent that more often than not, at some point during any given story Black Canary and Larry Lance will get mixed up in some criminal enterprise, they'll be blamed for it and have to capture the villain and make him confess in order to clear their names. They'll also get hit on the head and knocked unconscious at least once per story. One would think that sooner or later permanent brain damage would result from so many blows to the head, but no.
The book covers quite a bit of time. Most of it is from Black Canary's 1940s run, and then she disappears along with the other Golden Age characters. There's a two part story from the mid-60s from the Brave and the Bold that teams her up with Starman, and then a single story from the 1970s that pits her against Catwoman. This is a character that DC paired up with Green Arrow in the late 60s, and she's never really had another solo feature. I guess Birds of Prey would be the most prominent use of the character, and that's not even the original Black Canary. It's her daughter, the one with the sonic scream.
So an interesting mix of a very modern character from the 1940s mixed with some good storytelling and some very repetitive storytelling. The artwork restoration, as usual for these archives, is excellent and just jumps off the page. Oh, and once again, it's Carmine Infantino drawing a lot of it, as well as providing the introduction for the book. These archives are worth the price of admission just for the intros by the old pros who worked on comics at the time.
Dinah Drake defies some expectations of what you might expect a female character to be like in the 1940s. She's obviously brave, and tough enough to go out and take on thugs and gangsters on her own. She is a business owner, and runs a florist shop. Her would-be boyfriend, Larry Lance, is a rather ineffective private detective who patronizes her in a generally good-humored way, while she gives it right back to him. Both of these characters are written with strong personalities and bicker so much that you know they'll end up together eventually.
Black Canary doesn't have her sonic scream at this point. She has no superpowers, so she's a street-level character. What she does have is a choker around her neck that's the equivalent of Batman's utility belt. By which I mean that she can pull from it whatever is needed to solve the problem of the day, whether that be a small knife to cut herself free once she's been captured, or whatever the plot demands. This item is never explained, and some of the life-saving items it produces cannot possibly fit inside, so maybe this was meant to be her superpower? I don't know, and given that most of the stories are no more than six to eight pages, there's not a lot of time for exposition.
And that brings me to the other drawback of this series: the repetitive plots. As I said, the stories are only six or eight pages, so there's not a lot of time, but it quickly becomes apparent that more often than not, at some point during any given story Black Canary and Larry Lance will get mixed up in some criminal enterprise, they'll be blamed for it and have to capture the villain and make him confess in order to clear their names. They'll also get hit on the head and knocked unconscious at least once per story. One would think that sooner or later permanent brain damage would result from so many blows to the head, but no.
The book covers quite a bit of time. Most of it is from Black Canary's 1940s run, and then she disappears along with the other Golden Age characters. There's a two part story from the mid-60s from the Brave and the Bold that teams her up with Starman, and then a single story from the 1970s that pits her against Catwoman. This is a character that DC paired up with Green Arrow in the late 60s, and she's never really had another solo feature. I guess Birds of Prey would be the most prominent use of the character, and that's not even the original Black Canary. It's her daughter, the one with the sonic scream.
So an interesting mix of a very modern character from the 1940s mixed with some good storytelling and some very repetitive storytelling. The artwork restoration, as usual for these archives, is excellent and just jumps off the page. Oh, and once again, it's Carmine Infantino drawing a lot of it, as well as providing the introduction for the book. These archives are worth the price of admission just for the intros by the old pros who worked on comics at the time.
Re: Retro Comics are Awesome
The Infinity Gauntlet: (Starlin/Perez)
I have not done more than flip through this book for about 10 years, effectivley making this reading "new". All things considered, my impressions from the last flip through were accurate. "Infinity Gauntlet" is better illustrated than "Infinity War", though "Infinity War" has better writing.
Perez may have had a weak showing while writing "Superman" last year, his art has always been above average. And, during the 80s and early 90s, the man was in his prime. While there is more to comic art than the pencils, the pencils are the foundation. Even with significant printing errors (mostly colours) in the reprinted edition, the pencil's are still gorgeous to look at.
"Infinity Gauntlet" was the first part of Starlin's definitive Thanos Trilogy. (I am unsure what the official name would be.) In theory, this sort of story should benefit from, and add value to, a largely ongoing narrative such as what Marvel as a whole is billed as. But, in real terms, it suffers for not sticking. None of Starlin's work with Thanos from "The Infinity Gauntlet" or its sequels has meaningfully stuck. (Starlin arguably accounts for this with "The End", but that is at best a post hoc reconciliation.) Structurally, "The Infinity Gauntlet" suffers for having too many narrators, particularly in early chapters.
Grade: B
Taskmaster (Unthinkable):
This is on the border between being retro and contemporary. "Unthinkable" was released during the "Heroic Age" a few years back. But, Marvel has been pushing "Marvel Now" as the current status (stasis?) quo. And, I am doubtful that "Unthinkable" holds, or will hold, much relevance for Marvel as a whole or even for the Taskmaster. Van Lente does a good job of showing the downside of Taskmaster's photographic reflexes (specifically how it impacts his ability to remember basic things that most people would take for granted). Van Lente seems to be trying to set the Taskmaster up as more than a solid B/C list foil. The origin story holds together reasonably well. And, Van Lente manages to do something unique with the idea of a deep cover spy (who is unaware of his true allegiance). But, the end result of the story is that Taskmaster now has a tremendous amount of baggage and context that is unlikely to be used by future writers. Maybe in 20 years, a future writer will look back on this series and mine it for ideas. But, it is not sensible to assign value to a comic for what might follow from it. The early issues have a strong motif of associated memory that Van Lente abandons in favour of more straight forward narrative. That was an unfortunate stylistic decision that makes the later chapters less distinctive. Another problem is that Van Lente was trying his hand at summer comedy moments. (One of the enemy groups is called "MILF", because "lololololololol" and their leader is called "Red Shirt" because "bwahahahahahaha funny". Gut feeling, those characters have already been forgotten.)
Grade: C
Dom
I have not done more than flip through this book for about 10 years, effectivley making this reading "new". All things considered, my impressions from the last flip through were accurate. "Infinity Gauntlet" is better illustrated than "Infinity War", though "Infinity War" has better writing.
Perez may have had a weak showing while writing "Superman" last year, his art has always been above average. And, during the 80s and early 90s, the man was in his prime. While there is more to comic art than the pencils, the pencils are the foundation. Even with significant printing errors (mostly colours) in the reprinted edition, the pencil's are still gorgeous to look at.
"Infinity Gauntlet" was the first part of Starlin's definitive Thanos Trilogy. (I am unsure what the official name would be.) In theory, this sort of story should benefit from, and add value to, a largely ongoing narrative such as what Marvel as a whole is billed as. But, in real terms, it suffers for not sticking. None of Starlin's work with Thanos from "The Infinity Gauntlet" or its sequels has meaningfully stuck. (Starlin arguably accounts for this with "The End", but that is at best a post hoc reconciliation.) Structurally, "The Infinity Gauntlet" suffers for having too many narrators, particularly in early chapters.
Grade: B
Taskmaster (Unthinkable):
This is on the border between being retro and contemporary. "Unthinkable" was released during the "Heroic Age" a few years back. But, Marvel has been pushing "Marvel Now" as the current status (stasis?) quo. And, I am doubtful that "Unthinkable" holds, or will hold, much relevance for Marvel as a whole or even for the Taskmaster. Van Lente does a good job of showing the downside of Taskmaster's photographic reflexes (specifically how it impacts his ability to remember basic things that most people would take for granted). Van Lente seems to be trying to set the Taskmaster up as more than a solid B/C list foil. The origin story holds together reasonably well. And, Van Lente manages to do something unique with the idea of a deep cover spy (who is unaware of his true allegiance). But, the end result of the story is that Taskmaster now has a tremendous amount of baggage and context that is unlikely to be used by future writers. Maybe in 20 years, a future writer will look back on this series and mine it for ideas. But, it is not sensible to assign value to a comic for what might follow from it. The early issues have a strong motif of associated memory that Van Lente abandons in favour of more straight forward narrative. That was an unfortunate stylistic decision that makes the later chapters less distinctive. Another problem is that Van Lente was trying his hand at summer comedy moments. (One of the enemy groups is called "MILF", because "lololololololol" and their leader is called "Red Shirt" because "bwahahahahahaha funny". Gut feeling, those characters have already been forgotten.)
Grade: C
Dom
Re: Retro Comics are Awesome
Crossover Classics volume 2:
As I am slowing down on current comics (time and money being issues), I am reading through my piles of "books and comics that I have been meaning to get to any day now".
This is a compilation of several of Marvel/DC cross-overs from the 1990s. (There were others, which I am assuming were reprinted in volume 1, which I did not see.)
Batman/Punisher (O'Neil):
This comic was originally published after "Knightfall", as reflected by the Batman that the Punisher meets. Typically, a crossover (particularly an inter-company crossover) goes out of its way to make both of the invovled properties look good. Not so here. O'Neil makes the Jean-Paul Batman look like a raving crazy ass. Seriously, the Punisher comes off as the sane and rational one. This is wholly consistent with how Jean-Paul Batman was written. But, it seems out of place in a crossover. (DC's main creative point with Jean-Paul was basically "90s anti-heroes suck". It was hardly the only time they made that case. But, making it in a crossover with the Punisher is a conceptual failure.) The bad guys are Jigsaw and the Joker.
Grade: C/D
Batman/Punisher (Dixon):
Bruce Wayne had already returned by the time that this comic was originally published. Punisher and Batman team up against Jigsaw and the Joker yet again. The Punisher's monologues imply that very little time has passed between the first and second crossovers. But, Wayne's return implies more time has passed. That being said, Dixon generally did a good job of splitting the difference between Marvel and DC and making it seem like a typical issue of either character's regular book. The logic of the story falls apart at the end when Batman simply lets the Joker (a homicidal maniac) go in order to fight the (less dangerous and already wounded) Punisher.
Grade: C/D
Both of the Batman/Punisher stories are set in Gotham. This objectively makes sense as DC cities lend themselves more to isolated crossovers than Marvel's New York does (being not only more isolated, but having fewer supers running around). Additionally, both stories acknowledge fundamental differences between Marvel and DC. (In the O'Neil has Jigsaw musing about his plan to take over Gotham would never work in NY. The plan itself involves using a McGuffin to destroy the city's water supply, obligating Gotham to hire a construction firm Jigsaw owns and.....) And, unfortunately, both stories rely on the obligatory misunderstanding/disagreement to set up the big fight between the heroes.
Superman/Silver Surfer (Perez):
This was suprisingly readable. Perez has not really impressed me as a writer. But, the standard for this sort of thing is generally lower. (How much can really be done with a one-shot to begin with, especially one likely saddled with so many editorial restrictions?) Perez did not get too ambitious, and kept the story deliberately light by using Impossible Man and Mxyzptlk (who the hell cares how it is spelled?) as the bad guys. To his credit, Perez avoided the obligatory fight cliche and managed to make the heroes look good by teaming up and solving the problems caused by the Impossible and Mxyzptlk. Suprisingly, Perez explicitly used the idea of alternate Earths, which contradicted DC's mandate that went back to the original "Crisis on Infinite Earths" and was still (as far as I know) in place after "Zero Hour". It is not great comics. But, it is an excellent crossover.
Grade: B/C
Batman/Captain America (Byrne):
Byrne. Byrne doing everything but the colouring (which he is physically incapable of doing) on a comic featuring Captain America *and* Batman. Byrne made the kind of stylistic choices that generally only work in a one-shot while plotting this story. While the ambition is easy to appreciate, the results do not fully pan out. The story is set in 1945, towards the end of the war. Batman is written retro-style. (Between visual elements his detective style and dialogue, it was impossible to "hear" Batman and Robin as anything other than Adam West and Burt Ward.) Unfortunately, the retro tone of the heroes did not match up with the villains, the Red Skull and the Joker. The latter is written more in line with the 70s/80s iteration of the character, making him a homicidal maniac. Byrne manages to have things both ways with the "obligatory fight". Captain America and Batman work well together. But, a misunderstanding initially pits Steve Rogers and Bruce Wayne against each other.
Grade: C
Grade for compilation as a whole: C
Buy it as a curiosity. But, do not expect too much.
As I am slowing down on current comics (time and money being issues), I am reading through my piles of "books and comics that I have been meaning to get to any day now".
This is a compilation of several of Marvel/DC cross-overs from the 1990s. (There were others, which I am assuming were reprinted in volume 1, which I did not see.)
Batman/Punisher (O'Neil):
This comic was originally published after "Knightfall", as reflected by the Batman that the Punisher meets. Typically, a crossover (particularly an inter-company crossover) goes out of its way to make both of the invovled properties look good. Not so here. O'Neil makes the Jean-Paul Batman look like a raving crazy ass. Seriously, the Punisher comes off as the sane and rational one. This is wholly consistent with how Jean-Paul Batman was written. But, it seems out of place in a crossover. (DC's main creative point with Jean-Paul was basically "90s anti-heroes suck". It was hardly the only time they made that case. But, making it in a crossover with the Punisher is a conceptual failure.) The bad guys are Jigsaw and the Joker.
Grade: C/D
Batman/Punisher (Dixon):
Bruce Wayne had already returned by the time that this comic was originally published. Punisher and Batman team up against Jigsaw and the Joker yet again. The Punisher's monologues imply that very little time has passed between the first and second crossovers. But, Wayne's return implies more time has passed. That being said, Dixon generally did a good job of splitting the difference between Marvel and DC and making it seem like a typical issue of either character's regular book. The logic of the story falls apart at the end when Batman simply lets the Joker (a homicidal maniac) go in order to fight the (less dangerous and already wounded) Punisher.
Grade: C/D
Both of the Batman/Punisher stories are set in Gotham. This objectively makes sense as DC cities lend themselves more to isolated crossovers than Marvel's New York does (being not only more isolated, but having fewer supers running around). Additionally, both stories acknowledge fundamental differences between Marvel and DC. (In the O'Neil has Jigsaw musing about his plan to take over Gotham would never work in NY. The plan itself involves using a McGuffin to destroy the city's water supply, obligating Gotham to hire a construction firm Jigsaw owns and.....) And, unfortunately, both stories rely on the obligatory misunderstanding/disagreement to set up the big fight between the heroes.
Superman/Silver Surfer (Perez):
This was suprisingly readable. Perez has not really impressed me as a writer. But, the standard for this sort of thing is generally lower. (How much can really be done with a one-shot to begin with, especially one likely saddled with so many editorial restrictions?) Perez did not get too ambitious, and kept the story deliberately light by using Impossible Man and Mxyzptlk (who the hell cares how it is spelled?) as the bad guys. To his credit, Perez avoided the obligatory fight cliche and managed to make the heroes look good by teaming up and solving the problems caused by the Impossible and Mxyzptlk. Suprisingly, Perez explicitly used the idea of alternate Earths, which contradicted DC's mandate that went back to the original "Crisis on Infinite Earths" and was still (as far as I know) in place after "Zero Hour". It is not great comics. But, it is an excellent crossover.
Grade: B/C
Batman/Captain America (Byrne):
Byrne. Byrne doing everything but the colouring (which he is physically incapable of doing) on a comic featuring Captain America *and* Batman. Byrne made the kind of stylistic choices that generally only work in a one-shot while plotting this story. While the ambition is easy to appreciate, the results do not fully pan out. The story is set in 1945, towards the end of the war. Batman is written retro-style. (Between visual elements his detective style and dialogue, it was impossible to "hear" Batman and Robin as anything other than Adam West and Burt Ward.) Unfortunately, the retro tone of the heroes did not match up with the villains, the Red Skull and the Joker. The latter is written more in line with the 70s/80s iteration of the character, making him a homicidal maniac. Byrne manages to have things both ways with the "obligatory fight". Captain America and Batman work well together. But, a misunderstanding initially pits Steve Rogers and Bruce Wayne against each other.
Grade: C
Grade for compilation as a whole: C
Buy it as a curiosity. But, do not expect too much.
-
andersonh1
- Moderator
- Posts: 6468
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:22 pm
- Location: South Carolina
Re: Retro Comics are Awesome
I remember those two Batman/Punisher crossovers, and owned them at one point. "You can't get into a gunfight and not expect to get shot" being one gem of wisdom from the Punisher that's stuck in my mind. 
Crossovers are fun. That's about all I expect from them.
Crossovers are fun. That's about all I expect from them.
One of the things I enjoyed so much about "Flash of Two Worlds" was that there is no obligatory fight. I found it very refreshing to see the two Flashes meet and get along just fine and work together without any hint of ego. It's good to read that Perez did the same thing with his Superman/Silver Surfer crossover. More writers should try it, in my opinion.Byrne manages to have things both ways with the "obligatory fight". Captain America and Batman work well together. But, a misunderstanding initially pits Steve Rogers and Bruce Wayne against each other.
Re: Retro Comics are Awesome
The problem is that there is usually incentive to write down to the idiot demographic who are in mostly to see the obligatory fight between the head-liners of two books/companies.
-
andersonh1
- Moderator
- Posts: 6468
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:22 pm
- Location: South Carolina
Re: Retro Comics are Awesome
All-Star Comics #21
“The Man Who Re-lived his Life” by Gardner Fox with various artists
Sometimes these old comics deliver a story with a little more to offer than the typical hero versus villain, and courtesy of All-Star Archives volume 5, “The Man Who Relived his Life” is a good example. The execution of the plot is fairly typical, with a problem that requires the JSA members to split up and tackle different aspects of it solo before coming back together at the end. But there’s a bit more of an emotional core to this story than usual. It revolves around a man named Joe Fitch, who is dying, because he secretly made himself a guinea pig for a medical serum out of guilt over his life and criminal past. The man he works for, Professor Everson, is someone the JSA have met before (continuity!!), and he relays Joe’s request: that the team go back into the past and change his life before he dies by stopping him from committing many criminal acts, including several murders and desertion in a time of war. Naturally, the team agrees.
So it's a "change the past" time travel storyline. The view that Fox takes of time travel is interesting though. It's almost as though even if an event is changed, it will still happen, even if the details are slightly different. So there's a feeling of "you can't fight fate" running through the story, and it leads several of the JSA members to believe they have failed to change the course of Joe's life, even if it is made clear to the reader that they ultimately succeed. Watching Sandman and Starman react to failure is something that definitely sets this story apart from a good many others.
Each of the team members go back to different points in Joe’s life to stop a particular crime. And here is where the story displays a little depth. We get to see Joe as a young man, making some right choices but also some very wrong ones as well. He doesn’t start out with any desire to be a criminal, but desperation over gambling debts leads him to commit one crime, and then the whole chain of events and choices that is his life begins. Hawkman, Sandman, Starman, Dr. Mid-Nite and Johnny Thunder all intervene at different points, and as mentioned above, don’t always succeed in stopping the crime in question, even though it later becomes apparent that in one case someone else had actually committed the crime that Joe blamed himself for. In another, Joe is about to murder a man, but Sandman talks him out of it, then someone else kills him. Sandman and Starman both fail a big part of their particular mission, something that hits both pretty hard.
And in the end, the JSA don’t save Joe's life. He still dies, though with a much cleaner conscience than he had before. I found the whole story a nice change from the "split up, fight the villain and his henchmen, reunite at the end of the story" type of plotting.
“The Man Who Re-lived his Life” by Gardner Fox with various artists
Sometimes these old comics deliver a story with a little more to offer than the typical hero versus villain, and courtesy of All-Star Archives volume 5, “The Man Who Relived his Life” is a good example. The execution of the plot is fairly typical, with a problem that requires the JSA members to split up and tackle different aspects of it solo before coming back together at the end. But there’s a bit more of an emotional core to this story than usual. It revolves around a man named Joe Fitch, who is dying, because he secretly made himself a guinea pig for a medical serum out of guilt over his life and criminal past. The man he works for, Professor Everson, is someone the JSA have met before (continuity!!), and he relays Joe’s request: that the team go back into the past and change his life before he dies by stopping him from committing many criminal acts, including several murders and desertion in a time of war. Naturally, the team agrees.
So it's a "change the past" time travel storyline. The view that Fox takes of time travel is interesting though. It's almost as though even if an event is changed, it will still happen, even if the details are slightly different. So there's a feeling of "you can't fight fate" running through the story, and it leads several of the JSA members to believe they have failed to change the course of Joe's life, even if it is made clear to the reader that they ultimately succeed. Watching Sandman and Starman react to failure is something that definitely sets this story apart from a good many others.
Each of the team members go back to different points in Joe’s life to stop a particular crime. And here is where the story displays a little depth. We get to see Joe as a young man, making some right choices but also some very wrong ones as well. He doesn’t start out with any desire to be a criminal, but desperation over gambling debts leads him to commit one crime, and then the whole chain of events and choices that is his life begins. Hawkman, Sandman, Starman, Dr. Mid-Nite and Johnny Thunder all intervene at different points, and as mentioned above, don’t always succeed in stopping the crime in question, even though it later becomes apparent that in one case someone else had actually committed the crime that Joe blamed himself for. In another, Joe is about to murder a man, but Sandman talks him out of it, then someone else kills him. Sandman and Starman both fail a big part of their particular mission, something that hits both pretty hard.
And in the end, the JSA don’t save Joe's life. He still dies, though with a much cleaner conscience than he had before. I found the whole story a nice change from the "split up, fight the villain and his henchmen, reunite at the end of the story" type of plotting.
Re: Retro Comics are Awesome
Life and Death of Captain Marvel:
Jim Starlin.
Yeah, this is Starlin's opus.
The volume consists of several issues from Starlin's 70s run on "Captain Marvel" and Marvel's infamous first graphic novel.
As much as I want to rave about the 70s stuff, I cannot. Much of it is bad. And, I mean *bad*. Epically bad. I am talking about text book examples of what was wrong with Silver Age writing. There are examples of panels that consist of "big blocky narration box that describes in OCD level detail the part of the story that is happening", "character thinking more or less the same thing, just in case you missed the narration box" and a crudely drawn illustration that might legitimately need some explication but that necessity is arguably more of an indictment than a defense".
And, there are some laughably dated scenes. Some of this is the result of Marvel trying to use real-time through the 70s (using real dates going back a decade or so from when the comics were first published). But, some of them were just creative failures, such as the Titans (a super advanced civilization) having what looks like a printer from the 1960s.
(I ended up skimming over much of the first half, simply to avoid reading those pages.)
The death chapter itself is worth reading. At the very least, it focuses on a main (albeit secondary) character dying, and that character is still dead ~3 decades later. Mar-Vell may not have been as high profile as Spider-Man. But, he did headline a long running series at a time when comics were starting to break in to the mainstream. Taken as a self-contained story, it holds up pretty well. (My favourite scene is still the "awkward moment" where Marvel's most brilliant scientific minds have to admit that they kinda blew it in not researching a cure for cancer sooner.)
Grade (for the whole volume): C (Get the hardcover, which does not include the pre-death issues.)
Jim Starlin.
Yeah, this is Starlin's opus.
The volume consists of several issues from Starlin's 70s run on "Captain Marvel" and Marvel's infamous first graphic novel.
As much as I want to rave about the 70s stuff, I cannot. Much of it is bad. And, I mean *bad*. Epically bad. I am talking about text book examples of what was wrong with Silver Age writing. There are examples of panels that consist of "big blocky narration box that describes in OCD level detail the part of the story that is happening", "character thinking more or less the same thing, just in case you missed the narration box" and a crudely drawn illustration that might legitimately need some explication but that necessity is arguably more of an indictment than a defense".
And, there are some laughably dated scenes. Some of this is the result of Marvel trying to use real-time through the 70s (using real dates going back a decade or so from when the comics were first published). But, some of them were just creative failures, such as the Titans (a super advanced civilization) having what looks like a printer from the 1960s.
(I ended up skimming over much of the first half, simply to avoid reading those pages.)
The death chapter itself is worth reading. At the very least, it focuses on a main (albeit secondary) character dying, and that character is still dead ~3 decades later. Mar-Vell may not have been as high profile as Spider-Man. But, he did headline a long running series at a time when comics were starting to break in to the mainstream. Taken as a self-contained story, it holds up pretty well. (My favourite scene is still the "awkward moment" where Marvel's most brilliant scientific minds have to admit that they kinda blew it in not researching a cure for cancer sooner.)
Grade (for the whole volume): C (Get the hardcover, which does not include the pre-death issues.)
Re: Retro Comics are Awesome
Aside from "Re-Generation One", I got no new comics this week. (Some of this is money. But, time is also playing a role.) That said, I have been trying to work through my "to read" pile.
Iron Man "Dragon Seed Saga":
I honestly did not think a book by John Byrne could fail me so comprehensively. But, oh...my....
"Dragon Seed Saga" follows up on threads from "Armor Wars 2". While "Armor Wars 2" was flat, and definitely could have used a better name, it was not *bad*. "Dragon Seed Saga" is just bad. Despite being written circa 1990, it reads like something from the 60s. And, some of the worst parts are not even necessary for any reason beyond John Byrne having a fit of retrio-whimsy. For some reason, Byrne so fit to back-write Doctor Yinsen (the guy who helped Tony build his first suit) in to the Mandarin's origin. And, uh, Tony meets and falls in love with a married doctor because uh.... I can almost see Tony Stark going that route. But, the fact that the Doctor apparently feels the same way is bothersome both for delivering on the worst stereotypes about comic and for adding nothing to the over-all story aside from (maybe) giving an event-driven slug-fest a thin facade of emotional depth. (Yes, a "thin facade" conveying "emotional depth". You can probably figure out how well that worked.)
I am actually putting off reading some Byrne "Avengers" right now, just because I am kind of mad at him.
Grade: F
Iron Man "Disassembled":
As strange as it might seem now, about a decade back, the "Avengers" and related titles were all in pretty serious trouble. Eventually, Marvel decided to wind them all down with "Disassembled", a loosely connected banner event where "Avengers" and the related books were brought to a screeching end.
At the time, "Iron Man" assumed that Tony Stark (whose double identity was publicy known) was appointed US Secretary of Defense. It was an interesting idea. But, Marvel never fully exploited it. "Disassembled" shows some of the problems with a superhero (who also happens to be a celebrity millionaire) also being a high-profile official. And, it touches on the (well-worn) problems that one would expect a superhero to have if their identity is public. The story ends with Stark no longer being the Secretary of Defense and with a special ops team that used Stark Tech losing all of their tech.
Much like "Avengers Disassembled", this would have worked better as a definitive ending, rather than a house-cleaning.
Grade: B/C
Iron Man "Dragon Seed Saga":
I honestly did not think a book by John Byrne could fail me so comprehensively. But, oh...my....
"Dragon Seed Saga" follows up on threads from "Armor Wars 2". While "Armor Wars 2" was flat, and definitely could have used a better name, it was not *bad*. "Dragon Seed Saga" is just bad. Despite being written circa 1990, it reads like something from the 60s. And, some of the worst parts are not even necessary for any reason beyond John Byrne having a fit of retrio-whimsy. For some reason, Byrne so fit to back-write Doctor Yinsen (the guy who helped Tony build his first suit) in to the Mandarin's origin. And, uh, Tony meets and falls in love with a married doctor because uh.... I can almost see Tony Stark going that route. But, the fact that the Doctor apparently feels the same way is bothersome both for delivering on the worst stereotypes about comic and for adding nothing to the over-all story aside from (maybe) giving an event-driven slug-fest a thin facade of emotional depth. (Yes, a "thin facade" conveying "emotional depth". You can probably figure out how well that worked.)
I am actually putting off reading some Byrne "Avengers" right now, just because I am kind of mad at him.
Grade: F
Iron Man "Disassembled":
As strange as it might seem now, about a decade back, the "Avengers" and related titles were all in pretty serious trouble. Eventually, Marvel decided to wind them all down with "Disassembled", a loosely connected banner event where "Avengers" and the related books were brought to a screeching end.
At the time, "Iron Man" assumed that Tony Stark (whose double identity was publicy known) was appointed US Secretary of Defense. It was an interesting idea. But, Marvel never fully exploited it. "Disassembled" shows some of the problems with a superhero (who also happens to be a celebrity millionaire) also being a high-profile official. And, it touches on the (well-worn) problems that one would expect a superhero to have if their identity is public. The story ends with Stark no longer being the Secretary of Defense and with a special ops team that used Stark Tech losing all of their tech.
Much like "Avengers Disassembled", this would have worked better as a definitive ending, rather than a house-cleaning.
Grade: B/C
Re: Retro Comics are Awesome
I made a point of not doing anything productive on Thanksgiving. I spent the day reading old comics. Rather than review everything I read, I am just going to focus on the Marvel 70th Anniversary Collection (published a few years back). This volume includes selections from the 7 decades Marvel had been publishing comics, as chosen by a reader poll.
Normally, when I grade something, a split grade means that a given comic is between two grades. But, in this case, split grades should be read as indicating relevance and quality. The idea is to acknowledge that a given story may be relevant even if it is not very good, or vice versa. There are a few examples of stories that get an "A" for relevance despite being unreadably bad in terms of quality, the resulting grade being "A/F".
Over the course of the weekend, I managed to read through the 40s, 50s and 60s. While there were a few nice suprises, most of this was pretty much what I expected, consisting of crude writing and primitive art. If I were around at the time, I would not have agreed with Dr. Fred Wertham. But, I would not have had much reason to stand for comics as a medium.
The 40s:
Marvel Comics #1 (Everett):
Marvel has consistently portrayed Namor as a rogue element. He is as likely to work with the Avengers as he is to work against them. And, make no mistake, this goes back to his first appearance, where Namor butchers the crew of a salvage ship....seemingly for the hell of it. (Wow.) This story is not only the chracter's first appearance, it is still definitive. The writing is better than what I would expect of the time it was published. And, Everett's art is light years ahead of his contemporaries.
Grade: A/B
Captain America Comics #2 (Simon/Kirby):
Garbage. The art is terrible. The writing, both in terms of plot and dialogue is a weak draft at best. A particular low-point is what Cap and Bucky somehow fail to capture or kill Hitler and Goering...despite besting them in close combat. Maybe they did not recognize Hitler and his Reichsmarschall? This would not be suprising given how poorly they were drawn. (Seriously, did Kirby and Simon even bother to find reference art? I am pretty sure Goering typically dressed ornately, rather than the fatigues he was depicted as wearing here.) I cannot even see what sets this story above other comics from the 40s aside from "lolololol cross-dressing".
Grade: D/F
Captain America Comics #3 (Lee):
I got a few paragraphs in to this text story before giving up. It was damned near unreadable. But, it is Lee's first published work, which makes it relevant.
Grade: A/F
The 50s: Marvel's horror output is emphasize here. Marvel was publishing superhero comics in the 50s. But, apparently, nobody wants to talk about *that* Captain America. (You know the one, the Captain America of the 50s.) The problem is that the 50s selections are going to suffer for a lack of relevance. The most important thing that books like "Takes to Astonish" and "Journey in to Mystery" did was eventually get rebranded as superhero books.
Journey in to Mystery #6 (Wessler/Lawrence):
This is a standard, 50s-style, horror comic. If you have ever seen a reprint of an old EC horror comic, you have seen the art from this. It is not terrible (and much better than what the industry was producing a decade later). But, neither the writing nor the art are anything special. No ground is broken. No precedents are set. It works as an example of a dead genre, but no much else.
Grade: C/B
Tales to Astonish #?? (Lee/Lieber):
My bad. I forgot the issue number. This story is better than expected given when it was published and the guys responsible for it. (Lee and Lieber are responsible for the atrocious "Spider-Man" newspaper strip.) The art is far inferior to the art above. Lee's writing has all of the problems of Silver-Age writing, complete with tedious narration and redundant dialogue punctuated with exclamation points! In terms of relevance, this offering does suprisingly well, being the first appearance of Groot (a character regularly appearing in Guardians of the Galaxy). And, apparently Namor is not the only character to to start off as a heel. Groot's plan is to capture a town for the purpose of conducting experiments on the residents, and he is thwared by a scientist who looks suprisingly like Clark Kent.
Grade: B/C
The 60s: This is where the horror and sci-fi comics of the 50s were starting to be rebranded as the capes and tights books we know today.
Amazing Adult Fantasy #10 (Lee/Ditko):
Yeah, "Adult Fantasy". I giggled. This story reads more like something from the 50s in both concept and execution, right down to the wholly predictable "twist" ending. Lee does a little better than expected, but that might have as much to do with what I expect from him. Ditko does about as well as I would expect. Other than having way to many exclamation points, nothing about it stands out! This is a waste of pages, especially considering how many other things Marvel could have included, just from the 1960s.
F/D
Fantastic Four #13 (Lee/Kirby):
Yeah, apparently the Cold War happened in 616 Marvel. (Try to reconcile that with Marvel's sliding time-scale and insistance that everything counts.) This is the first appearance of the Watcher, who Lee comprehensively fails to define in any meaningful way. I am not sure where the idea the idea that the Watcher does not interfere comes from, given that his big move in this story is to make the FF and Red Ghost fight for some reason or another that does not quite make sense. (Why didn't the Watcher just hide or something? Oh, wait, Silver-Age Marvel....)
C/F
Strange Tales #13 (Lee Ditko):
Featuring the back-written origin of Doctor Strange! Primitive page layouts and bad 60s writing bring this one down.
Grade: B/D
Amazing Spider-Man #50 (Lee/Romita):
As laughable as the topical references are, it should be remembered that Marvel was still running on something that resembled real-time at this point. Romita's art, while dated, shows early signs of modernization. And, the cover is the iconic image of Parker walking away after having left his costume in a trash barrel. Lee actually seems to be able to articulate the high concept, Peter considered dropping being Spider-Man due to the time crunch it leads to. But, Lee's narratioin and dialogue are still the foundation for a case against the First Amendment.
Grade: A/C
Normally, when I grade something, a split grade means that a given comic is between two grades. But, in this case, split grades should be read as indicating relevance and quality. The idea is to acknowledge that a given story may be relevant even if it is not very good, or vice versa. There are a few examples of stories that get an "A" for relevance despite being unreadably bad in terms of quality, the resulting grade being "A/F".
Over the course of the weekend, I managed to read through the 40s, 50s and 60s. While there were a few nice suprises, most of this was pretty much what I expected, consisting of crude writing and primitive art. If I were around at the time, I would not have agreed with Dr. Fred Wertham. But, I would not have had much reason to stand for comics as a medium.
The 40s:
Marvel Comics #1 (Everett):
Marvel has consistently portrayed Namor as a rogue element. He is as likely to work with the Avengers as he is to work against them. And, make no mistake, this goes back to his first appearance, where Namor butchers the crew of a salvage ship....seemingly for the hell of it. (Wow.) This story is not only the chracter's first appearance, it is still definitive. The writing is better than what I would expect of the time it was published. And, Everett's art is light years ahead of his contemporaries.
Grade: A/B
Captain America Comics #2 (Simon/Kirby):
Garbage. The art is terrible. The writing, both in terms of plot and dialogue is a weak draft at best. A particular low-point is what Cap and Bucky somehow fail to capture or kill Hitler and Goering...despite besting them in close combat. Maybe they did not recognize Hitler and his Reichsmarschall? This would not be suprising given how poorly they were drawn. (Seriously, did Kirby and Simon even bother to find reference art? I am pretty sure Goering typically dressed ornately, rather than the fatigues he was depicted as wearing here.) I cannot even see what sets this story above other comics from the 40s aside from "lolololol cross-dressing".
Grade: D/F
Captain America Comics #3 (Lee):
I got a few paragraphs in to this text story before giving up. It was damned near unreadable. But, it is Lee's first published work, which makes it relevant.
Grade: A/F
The 50s: Marvel's horror output is emphasize here. Marvel was publishing superhero comics in the 50s. But, apparently, nobody wants to talk about *that* Captain America. (You know the one, the Captain America of the 50s.) The problem is that the 50s selections are going to suffer for a lack of relevance. The most important thing that books like "Takes to Astonish" and "Journey in to Mystery" did was eventually get rebranded as superhero books.
Journey in to Mystery #6 (Wessler/Lawrence):
This is a standard, 50s-style, horror comic. If you have ever seen a reprint of an old EC horror comic, you have seen the art from this. It is not terrible (and much better than what the industry was producing a decade later). But, neither the writing nor the art are anything special. No ground is broken. No precedents are set. It works as an example of a dead genre, but no much else.
Grade: C/B
Tales to Astonish #?? (Lee/Lieber):
My bad. I forgot the issue number. This story is better than expected given when it was published and the guys responsible for it. (Lee and Lieber are responsible for the atrocious "Spider-Man" newspaper strip.) The art is far inferior to the art above. Lee's writing has all of the problems of Silver-Age writing, complete with tedious narration and redundant dialogue punctuated with exclamation points! In terms of relevance, this offering does suprisingly well, being the first appearance of Groot (a character regularly appearing in Guardians of the Galaxy). And, apparently Namor is not the only character to to start off as a heel. Groot's plan is to capture a town for the purpose of conducting experiments on the residents, and he is thwared by a scientist who looks suprisingly like Clark Kent.
Grade: B/C
The 60s: This is where the horror and sci-fi comics of the 50s were starting to be rebranded as the capes and tights books we know today.
Amazing Adult Fantasy #10 (Lee/Ditko):
Yeah, "Adult Fantasy". I giggled. This story reads more like something from the 50s in both concept and execution, right down to the wholly predictable "twist" ending. Lee does a little better than expected, but that might have as much to do with what I expect from him. Ditko does about as well as I would expect. Other than having way to many exclamation points, nothing about it stands out! This is a waste of pages, especially considering how many other things Marvel could have included, just from the 1960s.
F/D
Fantastic Four #13 (Lee/Kirby):
Yeah, apparently the Cold War happened in 616 Marvel. (Try to reconcile that with Marvel's sliding time-scale and insistance that everything counts.) This is the first appearance of the Watcher, who Lee comprehensively fails to define in any meaningful way. I am not sure where the idea the idea that the Watcher does not interfere comes from, given that his big move in this story is to make the FF and Red Ghost fight for some reason or another that does not quite make sense. (Why didn't the Watcher just hide or something? Oh, wait, Silver-Age Marvel....)
C/F
Strange Tales #13 (Lee Ditko):
Featuring the back-written origin of Doctor Strange! Primitive page layouts and bad 60s writing bring this one down.
Grade: B/D
Amazing Spider-Man #50 (Lee/Romita):
As laughable as the topical references are, it should be remembered that Marvel was still running on something that resembled real-time at this point. Romita's art, while dated, shows early signs of modernization. And, the cover is the iconic image of Parker walking away after having left his costume in a trash barrel. Lee actually seems to be able to articulate the high concept, Peter considered dropping being Spider-Man due to the time crunch it leads to. But, Lee's narratioin and dialogue are still the foundation for a case against the First Amendment.
Grade: A/C