Transformers - ongoing series

[Sparky Prime]

Spike hating TFs does not mean that he is going to be a petulant child about dealing with them. If he can use their tech against them, why would he be shy about doing so?

Again, it's not about Spike using Cybertronian tech, its getting it from a deal with Swindle. The Decepticons literally just devastated the entire world, and Spike then just makes a deal with one of them, despite his hatred and shoot first attitude he has towards them that we see at the start of the Ongoing? Common Dom, you know that doesn't make any logical sense. Even when Optimus surrendered to them, they still put one of those inhibitors on him. With Swindle, he wouldn't have had any assurances.

[Mako Crab]

I'm with Sparky on this one. I just don't see Spike having any dealings with Swindle. And for me, having Swindle pop up out of thin air at the very end screams of a cheap plot device to tie all the loose ends together. The morality issue about why Spike killed Scrapper seemed at a stalemate with Prowl having to confront his own questionable actions in the past.
So out of nowhere this new plot twist (Swindle) is thrown in the mix, which conveniently implicates Spike as a weapons dealer and has him doing business with the enemy. Spike's dealings with Swindle are made known, and he's forced to go on the run as a fugitive. This is what I find simplistic. It apparently wasn't good enough to have Spike and Prowl part ways on equal footing as two morally questionable guys doing questionable things for the good of their people. Spike *had* to be the bad guy. Or at least more bad than Prowl.

[Onslaught Six]

I dunno. Prowl's kind of a dick.

And like our Prowl (who isn't a dick), I have to agree--Spike could very well have planned on using Swindle's own weapons against him. Just like Rattrap in The Weak Component. (In fact, this whole argument is VERY similar to the one people always have about that episode. "Rattrap/Spike wouldn't do that! He is teh gud guy!")

[Mako Crab]

The problem is poor story-telling. There was no setup whatsoever for Swindle's dealings with Spike. It just came out of nowhere. What clues were given in the previous 28 issues to indicate that Spike was dealing weapons and technology with Swindle? None.

[Onslaught Six]

"Shit, where did they get those mechsuits from?" "Hell if I know, maybe we'll find out in a later issue."

[Dominic]

There is plenty of set-up for it. We know that the humans are using Cybertronian tech. And, why would they have a problem buying it from Swindle? If he is selling, they are buying.

Spike was not really "dealing" anything. He was buying.


Dom
-again, Joe fans are okay with this sort of writing....just saying.

[Shockwave]

Y'know, maybe it's not about Spike, but about Swindle. I mean, Swindle's whole schtick is that he's really just that much of a bullshitter and I have no problem believing that he BSed Spike into buying technology. And we've certainly seen pre AHM that the Decepticons are capable of interacting with humans without them knowing it so maybe Swindle picked the right moment to reveal himself at which point he has leverage on Spike to keep the whole thing secret. I'm just saying it's not out of character for Swindle, in fact it's why he's called Swindle.

[Dominic]

Good point actually. Spike may never have known he was dealing with Swindle. And, we do know that Swindle had at least one faux-man on hand....

Dom
-and faux-man was around for a while, indicating that Costa had been this.

[Onslaught Six]

This is exactly what I suggested at the start--that Spike had been dealing with this dude Swindle had fabricated.

[Sparky Prime]

And like our Prowl (who isn't a dick), I have to agree--Spike could very well have planned on using Swindle's own weapons against him. Just like Rattrap in The Weak Component. (In fact, this whole argument is VERY similar to the one people always have about that episode. "Rattrap/Spike wouldn't do that! He is teh gud guy!")

As I said before, whether or not Spike planned to use those weapons against Swindle isn't the issue here. The question is why would he be dealing with a Decepticon right after they'd devastated the planet? And I haven't been arguing Spike wouldn't do that because he's a good guy, I've been saying he wouldn't do that because he hates the Transformers so much that it isn't likely he would have been dealing with one at that point.

And, why would they have a problem buying it from Swindle? If he is selling, they are buying.

Decepticons like Swindle had just devastated the planet? Humans not trusting and fearing any Cybertronians as a result? A total lack of any diplomatic relations at the time? Shoot first, ask no questions attitude among the humans? Seems to me there are plenty of problems they'd have in buying something from a Cybertronian...

Spike was not really "dealing" anything. He was buying.

Buying is still a business dealing...

Spike may never have known he was dealing with Swindle.

Why would Spike go on the run as a fugitive if he didn't know where the Cybertronian technology actually came from? Wouldn't he have tried to explain that? The comic may not come right out and say it, but it indicates Spike was dealing directly with Swindle, not a facsimile. Even if Swindle had used that method, wouldn't Spike have been suspicious of a human selling him Cybertronian technology? He's smart enough to figure out there would be more going on there.