Comics are Awesome III

[andersonh1]

I can see that and it's great that you've found it enjoyable and found value in it. For me, the fact that we know it's going to get undone just completely takes me out of the narrative.

I don't think it will be undone. Whether the characters will still be around and available to read about in future is the question. But at this point, it's like I said a few pages back: best just to look at it as something temporary and enjoy it while I can. These are the DC characters that made me a fan and whose stories I read for years, and I get two more months devoted to them? Cool. Count me in. I'll be right back out again when it's over and go back to reading Transformers and Batman 66 and whatever other random book interests me.

When I was getting books from the big two, it just started to lose any value to me at all. It wasn't even entertaining anymore because I was so taken out of the story that I didn't care what was happening or about the characters or even what the larger "message" or point was because.. why bother? It's not going to matter later anyway so what's the point? I guess this is why I hardly every post in this thread and also why I might be so cool to comics as a medium and a hobby as well.

I can certainly understand that point of view. That's probably a big reason I dislike the New 52, because it took everything I had read and enjoyed and flushed it in favor of new, kewl, crass and cynical DC characters that had no history and no charm. Everything I enjoyed suddenly didn't matter, but for some reason, I'm still supposed to keep buying and reading? I gave it a try, but if the whole universe of characters and stories can be rebooted, then what's the point in getting attached? They'll just come along and change it in a few more years when they need another sales boost. So why bother?

DC's trying to undo the damage with Convergence and to some extent with Multiversity by saying that everything happened and everything matters, but I think it's a bit too late to win everyone back. The gesture is not going to make me like their new characters. If they publish the ones I like, I'll buy them. If not, then that's fine.

I just enjoy the fact that for two months I can be an enthusiastic DC reader again.

[Sparky Prime]

None of which will matter a year from now.

I know you hate the big two for doing something and undoing it in short order but they don't do that with absolutely everything. Granted they do it a bit too often which can be aggravating, but there's just no way Marvel is going to undo their first 'Crisis' type story in only a year. And considering how long they've gone without a major reboot like this, I think we can expect them to stick with it for a good long time.

[andersonh1]

Convergence Aquaman #2
Excessively bloody and violent. Yeah, it feels like a 90s comic. Deathblow (seriously, that's his name) attacks the aquatic center in an attempt to kill Aquaman, and along the way he shoots more than a few armed security and unarmed personnel for no real reason, other than the fact that he can. He can't be killed, so despite the fact that Aquaman hits him hard enough to apparently break his neck, he's up again and trying to shoot or stab Aquaman while keeping up non-stop taunting. In the end, Aquaman is getting dehydrated and is on the point of being killed, when Dane suggests a way to rehydrate himself. So Aquaman stabs Deathblow in the neck and gets covered in his blood. "I'd feel bad for doing this if I didn't know you can't die," Aquaman tells him.

Is it in character? Sure, for 90s Aquaman, I can see it. Is it over the top violent and absurd? Absolutely. We had a good setup last month, but I can't say I enjoyed the conclusion.

Convergence Justice League International #2
This could easily have been titled "Blue Beetle", because the book focuses on him with many of the JLI not even getting lines. That's fine, because Ted Kord is a strong character and the story uses him well. And this time, the writers remembers that this group is supposed to be fun. So despite the dire circumstances, we get a Blue Beetle who dives in and wisecracks while he fights because he'd rather laugh than complain, and we get a fun ending that reminds us of what made the original JLI fun to read.

The JLI's opponents are various Kingdom Come era characters, including Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel. Beetle and Wonder Woman talk before the fight, with Beetle trying reason, but Wonder Woman isn't having any of it. They have to win the fight and nothing Blue Beetle can say will change that. So the two groups go at it, but rather than focus on the fight, the issue shifts to Ted Kord interacting with his Kingdom Come counterpart. Neither think the fight is the right thing to do, so they decide to go after Telos. They end up attacked by his drones and fight them off while cracking jokes and generally enjoying their work because of what day it is. The earthquake that's been happening in every book hits, and the fight with the robots is over.

The two Beetles return to find that the Kingdom Come JLA have won the fight, but they haven't killed anyone, or even seriously hurt them. They just wanted the win, and they leave, wishing the JLI the best. In the end, the JLI decide that all they can do is go after Telos, and the issue ends with the reveal that it's Ted Kord's birthday, and his buddy Booster Gold left him a birthday card and a practical joke in the form of a bucket of water above the door.

Convergence Green Arrow #2
Oliver and Connor are forced to fight Kingdom Come Dinah Lance and her daughter Olivia, the third Black Canary. They don't want to do it, they meet and enjoy each other's company at first, but Telos forces them into it. It's a short and sweet fight, with the two Black Canaries winning thanks to powers and technology that Green Arrow and Connor Hawke don't have, making this the second book this week where the main characters lose. All the two Canaries do is incapacitate them, but just like the JLI issue, the four heroes have managed to delay long enough to avoid being wiped out by Telos. The earthquake is apparently the planet moving into the New 52 universe as depicted in Convergence #6, and by that point Telos is no longer pushing the combat between the cities.

As I said, the fight is short in this issue, and the story largely thrives on fun interaction between the characters. Connor is delighted to have a father and a half-sister, while Oliver takes some time to warm up to the idea that he's a father and to stop pushing Connor away. We saw this character arc before, back in the 90s when Connor was originally introduced, but it ended with Oliver Queen dying in a plane explosion and Connor taking over the Green Arrow identity. This issue points towards a different future for the two characters, assuming we ever get to follow up on the plot.

[Dominic]

DC's trying to undo the damage with Convergence and to some extent with Multiversity by saying that everything happened and everything matters, but I think it's a bit too late to win everyone back. The gesture is not going to make me like their new characters.

Keep in mind, "Multiversity" was 5 years late because DC did not want to run it. And, that lateness is reflected in the guidebook.

DC sacrificed their big advantage after "Flashpoint". Traditionally, DC is the company that did high-concept comics. But, since "Flashpoint", DC has focused more on "stuff what happens". And, if comics lack staying power and/or are generally unreadable, that becomes problematic.

There Kyle finds Princess Fern attacking the city and is forced to defend it, only for Telos to announce that Electropolis has been destroyed by Parallax, and with that Fern and her people vanish, with Kyle sorry to see it happen, but reflecting that they brought it on themselves.

I really hope that "Convergence" does not meaningfully stick because I would hate to see one of Morrison's 52 trashed for the sake of this event.

If the "Earth 2" characters get moved to a new world, then that would arguably free up the "earth 2" designation for another JSA type book. I wonder if that is DC"s plan.

[Sparky Prime]

I really hope that "Convergence" does not meaningfully stick because I would hate to see one of Morrison's 52 trashed for the sake of this event.

The cities on Telos aren't from the 52 universes, they're from universes already destroyed or erased from existence from Flashpoint and earlier (save for the Earth-2 characters). Electropolis in Convergence is from Earth-6 which was destroyed in CoIE, not Earth-48 which is a part of the 52.

And the Earth-2 characters will be in the new title "Earth-2 Society" that comes out next month, despite their Earth having already been destroyed.

[andersonh1]

It's Bleeding Cool, so take it for what it's worth, but...

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/05/13/ ... nvergence/

It’s world against world in DC’s Convergence. Death and destruction all around, world pitted against worlds until only one survives. Or something.

Sounds a little incursion-y.

Convergence has been promoted as a way for DC fans to say goodbye to certain realities. One last lap of an old favourite, A nostalgic love letter to what once was, before moving on with what is new.

But, while sales may not have been as high as some might have liked in store, I understand that many of the titles have had a significant digital bump. Rather than a nostalgic kick for old comic book fans, they have been picked up, tumblrd, tweeted and shared by a newer, younger audience.

Apparently the current overstylised grimdark comics might not be what the “youth” wants after all. And as DC Comics begins to revamp their line with a rejection of house style in favour of a diversity of styles, characters and creators, so it seems those Convergence worlds will stick around.

And merge with the realities seen in Multiversity. The kids seemed to like that comic book too…

Good news, if true.

[Sparky Prime]

Second round of DC "previews" for June. Some interesting things in this round, among which, we get an explanation for why Superman returns to the t-shirt and jeans look. The we see a bit of wherever the Green Lantern Corps will be transported to, and a returning villain(?). And Aquaman will be getting a new *coughlesscolorfulcough* costume, and apparently is having a spat with Mera...

[andersonh1]

Second round of DC "previews" for June. Some interesting things in this round, among which, we get an explanation for why Superman returns to the t-shirt and jeans look. The we see a bit of wherever the Green Lantern Corps will be transported to, and a returning villain(?). And Aquaman will be getting a new *coughlesscolorfulcough* costume, and apparently is having a spat with Mera...

The Green Lantern preview looks good. I'm not a fan of Aquaman's new look, but everyone else is getting one, so I guess he can't be left out of the redesigning craze. :/

[Dominic]

It would make sense for DC to play things out like the BleedingCool report implies.

But, how much of the digital sales boost is legitimate interest and how much is mere curiosity? I am an older fan and I only bought in on "Convergence" for the sake of curiosity. (I would consider coming back for only one of the three titles I have looked at as they are now. One would need some retooling and the other would need a new creative team and significant boost in quality for me to even consider looking at it.)

Younger fans are less likely to commit to a series for the sake of the series or characters than older fans are.


What do they mean by "over-stylized"? "Multiversity" was highly stylized, and the posting points out that it sold well.


DC might do well to discard the idea of a house-style though. Over the last 15 years, Marvel and DC have fundamentally reversed. Marvel is now a creative juggernaut, publishing high concept runs of comics (with the "Avengers" titles no less, despite the more obvious incentive to dumb down the series with media support) and more basic punch-ups featuring any number of characters. (Marvel is even investing in "Spider-Man", despite not having movie money from it.)

DC, on the other hand, has spent the last 15 or so years becoming more like Marvel, particularly the bad Marvel of the 90s. There are flashes of brilliance, the odd good title and titles with real potential. But, nothing consistent or reliable. They have also depleted their talent pool. Many of their modern writers are shared with Marvel, (Soule for example). And, many of their old names are writing like it is 25+ years ago.

As much as I have been cheering Marvel the last few years, I want DC to tempt me. I want to have a few reliably good DC books on my pull-file. But, every change I gave them after 2011 fizzled. Books were cancelled or terdified.

I want to give DC a chance after the summer events shake out. But, I have less reason to be optimistic about anything DC is going to do in the long term.


Here is my starry-eyed optimist's list of what I hope to see from DC in the near future. (But, I do not want more than 5 books on my pull-file past August. And, any DC book has to be better than what Marvel is offering and/or what is already on my pull-list to begin with.) If DC worries less about a house style and less about making every title match up (maybe using the multiverse as an on page reason to justify books not relating), they would have plenty of options beyond this list.


-Injustice: If the tail-end of year 3 and beginnings of year 4 are anything to go by, this series will continue to impress. Buccaletto is not Taylor. But, he seems to grasp the premise and to have the ability to write about it. I will keep reading this series casually, and picking up compilations. (Just hope that DC does not ruin it.)

-Earth 2 Society: Might give this book an chance, if Marvel does not over-whelm me with interesting titles in the fall. But, after August, I do not want more than 5 books on my pull-file.

-Crime Syndicate: If Buccaletto is writing it, I would look at a "Crime Syndicate" title.

-Master Men: With the right creative team, this could be a good "supers as analogues for power" series.

-JSA/Infinity Incorporated: In this case, I am looking less for a specific set of characters and more for a general premise. Have a capes book where time passes. Allow the characters to age and have a generation or two of past (possibly dead) heroes that preceded the "current" characters. Maybe have the series change focus from time to time, shifting between past, present and future characters.

-bat successors: Similar to the above, but with a bat focus. Assume that Bruce Wayne is long dead, but that there are "bats" in Gotham and other major cities around the globe. The bats would be one part urban legend, another part secret society (albeit of do-gooders). This would allow for a range of basic adventure *and* high concept comics. It might even support two or three series.

-low power heroes: The "Society of Superheroes" from "Multiversity" would be an example of this. High power characters would be rare, and more impressive for it. Allow for masked men and criminals. But, limit the scale.

-heroes as gods: Morrison has toyed with this at a higher level. Ennis uses it at a lower level. (Obviously, I would prefer something closer to Morrison.)

-high concept stuff: DC used to do this well. They need to get back to it. Morrison left DC because he wanted a break from the industry. But, they might be able to tempt him back for short projects. And, Morrison is not the only writer who can do high concept stuff.

[andersonh1]

I like a lot of your series ideas Dom. They're good ideas, which of course means that DC won't publish them.


I don't know how the tie-ins are doing, but the main Convergence series is selling well.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/05/15/ ... book-sales

The top ten best-selling comics for April included:

1) Star Wars #4 (Marvel)

2) Convergence #0 (DC)

3) Convergence #1 (DC)

4) Batman #40 (DC)

5) Darth Vader #4 (Marvel)

6) Convergence #2 (DC)

7) Convergence #3 (DC)

8) Kanan: The Last Padawan #1 (Marvel)

9) Convergence #4 (DC)

10) Princess Leia #3 (Marvel)