TF Views

Scifi uses lasers and other energy projection. Sword and sorcery use magic spells and black powder weapons. In both cases, characters have ranged attacks. Islands and planets are pretty much interchangable as places where mysterious ab/non-humans live.

The hows and whys of the technology and magic make about as much sense in either case.

But I wouldn't agree that's all you need to know about it from the story perspective. How it's able to fly (by technology or magic) makes a difference to the story itself.

Not really. Most technology in sci-fi works about as well as it needs to, (or as well as the writers need it to), kind of like some wacky magic spell that is as easy or as difficult to cast and sustain as it needs to be.

It stops being science fiction if it's got fantasy in it or vise versa. What you're talking about here is actually a separate genre called science fantasy.

That has to be the most absurd thing a fandom has come up with since the "more serious" term "Trekkers" for hard-core Trekkies.


Dom
-wants to leave flaming bags of poop on Bob Skir's, Bob Forward's and Larry DiTillio's front porches.

Dominic wrote:Yeah, it is called att.classic.moderated....

Those guys don't exist anymore. ATT itself is a shell of its former self; and is really no more populated than this very site here. Not that that's a bad thing.

Sparky Prime wrote:

Shockwave wrote:That's all we meant. We weren't making any comparisons beyond that. In fact we were limiting the comparison to just that. And only that.

Just because two different things do the same basic function, that doesn't mean they are interchangeable. You're changing the fundamental story, turning it into something else if you try to substitute elements from different genres like that.

Most sci fi stories could be told in a fantasy setting and reasonably still have the same elements in them.

It stops being science fiction if it's got fantasy in it or vise versa. What you're talking about here is actually a separate genre called science fantasy.

This has nothing to do with Beast Wars, Transformers, or squicky furry fanfic. Can we drop it, please?

This is hardly the first topic to deviate from purely TF related subjet matter.

But, okay....

How many furries does it take to nail in a light bulb? (And, we are not even going to get into why they are *nailing* in a lightbulb.)


Dom
-cuz O6 wanted it!

There really needs to be some sort of multiquote function here. Anyway. I don't wanna let it go. It's an interesting debate. Sure it's not on topic but when has that ever stopped anyone here?

It's totally possible to tell the same story in different settings. If I write a fantasy story where the hero uses winged boots and a flaming sword to kill the bad guy then how is that any different if the hero uses a lightsaber and rocket boots. It's the same story, just different settings. To use Sparky's Frodo example it would essentially be the same story but instead of being Lord of the Rings it's now an episode of Deep Space Nine. We're not saying that one element can be swapped, we're saying the genres themselves are interchangeable. You can't have an Excalibur story featuring a lightsaber set in 10th century England, but you could tell the Excalilbur story set in the Star Wars universe (in which case it probably would be a lightsaber).

It takes 0 furries to nail in a lightbulb because you don't nail a lightbulb, you screw it.

Shockwave
-Screw it.

Shockwave wrote:There really needs to be some sort of multiquote function here.

Quote the initial post. Now look below the regular posting field; there's a Topic Review with the most recent posts in the thread, all with a quote button next to them. It's what I've been using, and it works great. (Although I don't know what this looks like on an iPhone or whatever.)

Anyway. I don't wanna let it go. It's an interesting debate. Sure it's not on topic but when has that ever stopped anyone here?

It hasn't, I just thought it was a dumb discussion that would go nowhere so I wanted it to stop.

Onslaught Six wrote:

Shockwave wrote:There really needs to be some sort of multiquote function here.

Quote the initial post. Now look below the regular posting field; there's a Topic Review with the most recent posts in the thread, all with a quote button next to them. It's what I've been using, and it works great. (Although I don't know what this looks like on an iPhone or whatever.)

Anyway. I don't wanna let it go. It's an interesting debate. Sure it's not on topic but when has that ever stopped anyone here?

It hasn't, I just thought it was a dumb discussion that would go nowhere so I wanted it to stop.

Oh. Ok. I'll have to try that.

Don't spoil my fun! I like beating the dead horse dammit!

Onslaught Six wrote:I just thought it was a dumb discussion that would go nowhere so I wanted it to stop.

Confirmed. While I shy away from the word "dumb", I don't think anyone's going to get anywhere in this one as long as it continues in this fashion. Y'all keep missing each other's points. Such is the internet, I guess...?

And nobody give me that "Don't like it, don't watch it" Busy Street crap! By the same token, don't acknowledge my criticism if you don't like it! =p

Gomess wrote:

Onslaught Six wrote:And nobody give me that "Don't like it, don't watch it" Busy Street crap! By the same token, don't acknowledge my criticism if you don't like it! =p

What? Y'all got a right to your opinions like everyone else so why the hell shouldn't you post 'em? This is a forum after all...

Shockwave wrote:What? Y'all got a right to your opinions like everyone else so why the hell shouldn't you post 'em? This is a forum after all...

Yeah, I know, but all too often in the past couple years I've run into people whose only recourse when I criticise them is to say IGNORE MEEE (two Venture Bros. references in one week??).

I'm sure you guys wouldn't do that, but I'm JUST. MAKING. SURE. >___>

Dominic wrote:Scifi uses lasers and other energy projection. Sword and sorcery use magic spells and black powder weapons. In both cases, characters have ranged attacks. Islands and planets are pretty much interchangable as places where mysterious ab/non-humans live.

You're only making a surface level comparison and trying to pass that off as interchangable. It makes a difference how those things work within a story and whether or not they could potentially exist or couldn't ever exist in the real world. That's part of what defines each of these genre's and makes them unique from each other, and you're completely ignoring that.

The hows and whys of the technology and magic make about as much sense in either case.

To quote Rod Serling for one of many, many, many definitions of the two genre's: "Fantasy is the impossible made probable. Science Fiction is the improbable made possible." The elements in Science Fiction are designed to make sense to a real world environment in order to make it seem possible. Fantasy on the other hand invents its own rules and thus doesn't need to make any logical sense.

That has to be the most absurd thing a fandom has come up with since the "more serious" term "Trekkers" for hard-core Trekkies.

It's not something a fandom came up with. It's a genre classification in literature.

Shockwave wrote:It's totally possible to tell the same story in different settings. If I write a fantasy story where the hero uses winged boots and a flaming sword to kill the bad guy then how is that any different if the hero uses a lightsaber and rocket boots. It's the same story, just different settings.

Again, this is a surface level comparison of what those objects can do. That doesn't mean you can just switch them and it's the same thing. Changing these elements impacts more in the story than you're giving credit.

To use Sparky's Frodo example it would essentially be the same story but instead of being Lord of the Rings it's now an episode of Deep Space Nine.

If you change it to an episode of Deep Space Nine, it's not the same thing anymore at all. How would they defeat the Dominion if DS9 was LotR? Throwing a cloaking device into a volcano isn't going to stop them like the One Ring does to Sauron's army. Things cannot work like that in a universe based on real world laws of nature.

We're not saying that one element can be swapped, we're saying the genres themselves are interchangeable.

If they were so interchangeable, why would they be distinguished as two separate genre's in the first place? As I keep saying, there is a fundamental difference between the two. They aren't so easily interchangeable for a reason unless it's a completely different genre like science fantasy (which Star Wars arguably is a part of btw, given the Force is more a fantasy element).