TF Views

Except Ravage is the only survivor that we ever see--we're given no indications on who the other survivors are. Even in the Botcon comics, everyone else is off doing 'other' stuff. They can't be assed to sit around talking about the good old days of the Great War--they have other things to do. Hell, Ravage is working for Tripredacus--and, seeing as his intention on Earth was to 'kill everybody,' I'd wager a guess that everyone else who'd ever met Ravage post-Predaconism is probably dead.

SynjoDeonecros wrote:First of all, we only know of the one colony, and from what I've been able to research, that's the ONLY colony that was lost.

We know Protoform X destroyed colony Omicron as well as Starbase Rugby with potentially more victims given the amount of time it took Depthcharge to finally capture him.

It would be fairly easy for them to cover it up with some bullcrap story to placate them. After all, as I've been saying for a while, NO ONE KNEW OF PROTOFORM X OUTSIDE OF THE AXALON TEAM, THE MAXIMAL ELDERS, AND DEPTH CHARGE. They could've EASILY covered this up without resorting to sealing up Starscream's file, and they could EASILY deny the file had anything to do with the experiment.

Just some cover up story isn't going to be enough for everyone to be appeased. Some might launch investigations of their own, and further questions about specific details and so on... With out covering up all the evidence, including all files relating to the project, how long do you think it'd take for someone to find the truth?

Second, are you STILL flaunting the IDW sourcebooks? Those things are CRAP! There's a list of errors for that thing on Teletraan 1 as long as the credits for the Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings trilogy.

No, rather I'm talking about the IDW Beast Wars continuity as a whole.

Besides, as Onslaught Six and I have already discussed, there were a lot of OTHER ways they could've told it was Earth, like the very EARTH-LIKE creatures they made into their beast modes. I'll concede to the second moon throwing them off, but still...

Just having Earth-like creatures does mean it's Earth or that the Transformers are even fully aware of all the creatures on Earth to use that as a point of reference for the planet.

Of COURSE they'd know about Iacon, since it's a city on CYBERTRON, WHERE THEY LIVE. It's probably a really nice tourist destination, from what Cheetor says.

Are you kidding me with this? Iacon had been covered up with the Great Upgrade and as such Optimus said it'd been replaced. Nightscream had no clue what city it even was. And the city was never referenced besides that episode. There is nothing to say it was a tourist destination at all.

Earth's part in G1? They've already forbidden travel there, so what makes you think they didn't go farther with that?

What makes you think they did go farther than that? Again, there are any number of possible reasons for Earth to be off limits that doesn't include covering up history.

They may have heard about the Ark, but from how they react to it and how much of it they get WRONG, it's clear it's in a half-legend state that they're not sure of.

What do they got wrong? A few pronunciations? They still got all the general idea of what happened right.

You're just repeating your same arguments over and over again, denying and denying the obvious facts, and for what? THE WRITERS THEMSELVES have said that the Great War and Earth was Arthurian lore, near-mythical, and their writing up until Ravage's appearance for the most part reflect that. Turn a blind eye from it, if you want, but frankly, I have to wonder if you're watching the same cartoon that we are.

"We"? I see the majority of people arguing against your claims here. And what "facts" am I denying here exactly? I'm looking directly at the show and comics for my facts, which actually contradict much of what you're saying. And writers comments about Arthurian lore? So the writers wanted to make the Great Wars somewhat the stuff of legends for Cybertonians. Clearly the Maximals and Predacons still have the basic knowledge of what happened during that war. I honestly don't see why you think the Maximals were so in the dark about their own history when the show dispels that notion. And like BWprowl said earlier, you seriously need to calm down.

Onslaught Six wrote:Except Ravage is the only survivor that we ever see--we're given no indications on who the other survivors are. Even in the Botcon comics, everyone else is off doing 'other' stuff.

That's not actually true in terms of the Botcon comics... We saw in the Beast Wars Transformers Timelines comic we saw Buzzsaw and Laserbeak were two others besides Ravage secretly rebuilt and reprogrammed as Predacons. Rodimus and Arcee were in the Wreckers and the Veteran who later became part of Windrazor was supposed to be Swoop.

Sparky Prime wrote:That's not actually true in terms of the Botcon comics... We saw in the Beast Wars Transformers Timelines comic we saw Buzzsaw and Laserbeak were two others besides Ravage secretly rebuilt and reprogrammed as Predacons. Rodimus and Arcee were in the Wreckers and the Veteran who later became part of Windrazor was supposed to be Swoop.

Oh, pish-posh! Laserbeak and Buzzsaw are shitty FunPub retrocontinuity, and you know it--you can't use that in argument against BW. That'd be like pointing out flaws in the G1 comics because they're not referencing sparks--of course they aren't, sparks didn't exist back then.

Windrazor was only ever involved in Omega Point, a story that technically didn't even happen now, so he's out. And Rodimus and Arcee were only ever hanging around on Cybertron or elsewhere in space. These people have *other* things to do--they don't have time to sit around whining about GeeWun. (Except Arcee, since that's kind of all she ever did.)

Onslaught Six wrote:Except Ravage is the only survivor that we ever see--we're given no indications on who the other survivors are. Even in the Botcon comics, everyone else is off doing 'other' stuff. They can't be assed to sit around talking about the good old days of the Great War--they have other things to do. Hell, Ravage is working for Tripredacus--and, seeing as his intention on Earth was to 'kill everybody,' I'd wager a guess that everyone else who'd ever met Ravage post-Predaconism is probably dead.

Oh, great, now YOU are arguing "Would" instead of "Could". Is that all you guys ever focus on, here? You guys sound like you're on a freaking feedback loop, unable or unwilling to comprehend the difference between WOULD and COULD.

I'm sorry, but that is BULLCRAP! As I said before, pressure a Vietnam War or WWII vet about their role in the war long enough, and he'll talk, whether or not he WANTS to. The point is that we KNOW THEY ARE THERE, AFTER THE WRITERS TRIED TO CONVINCE US THEY WEREN'T. The point is we're given all this evidence to show they COULD learn if they wanted to, after the writers went through great lengths to show us that they COULDN'T.

Sparky, you are an idiot. The ONLY IDW source that hints at BWII taking place other than during BW is the source books, and those are inaccurate and unreliable, plus The Gathering and The Ascending RAN CONCURRENT TO BEAST WARS. Iacon being paved over does NOT IN ANY WAY PROVE THAT IT WAS COVERED UP! EVERYONE in the BW knew about it, EVERYONE. It was a major city on Cybertron, and why would the Maximal Elders hide it? Why even bring up Iacon when talking about what the Elders hid? THEY HAD NO FREAKING REASON TO SEAL IT UP, BECAUSE IT WASN'T RELEVANT TO THE EVENTS THEY WERE HIDING; EARTH AND THE EVENTS OF G1 THAT TOOK PLACE ON IT WAS. They got the whole Ark/Nemesis attack wrong, with the shooting bringing down the Ark and no mention of a raiding party. EVERY FREAKING EXPRESSION THEY GAVE WHEN CONFRONTED WITH A G1 REFERENCE WAS EITHER DISBELIEF OF WONDER THAT IT EXISTS. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. What more can I say to disprove all the crap you keep on spouting?

I'm through arguing this with you; it's clear you guys are blatantly ignoring the facts to come up with your own lame justification for what is, by definition, a writer screwup. And the more you argue, the more you repeat yourselves and come up with holes in your argument that I can EASILY destroy with the evidence on hand. The writers said so themselves: G1 and Earth was Arthurian Lore, it was meant to be vague and undefined, and the TF were meant to be as ignorant about it as possible. THEY FAILED BY SHOWING US THAT, EVEN THOUGH THE ELDERS SEALED UP ALL THE RECORDS ABOUT IT, THEY STILL HAD AVENUES TO RESEARCH. And that's what I'm going to point out in each and every review I give of the show, BECAUSE IT'S THE TRUTH.

SynjoDeonecros wrote:I'm sorry, but that is BULLCRAP!

I'd like to point out, as others have, that using all caps only makes you look like a little kid whining on the playground. Grow up--we're all adults here, there's no need to get your possibly-nonexistant panties into a tiffy. (Heheh. Tiffy.)

As I said before, pressure a Vietnam War or WWII vet about their role in the war long enough, and he'll talk, whether or not he WANTS to.

Because they're there, and around. Reread my post there--I was indicating that the reason nobody has asked Ravage, "Hey, how 'bout that Great War?" is because he's off *being a black ops agent.* I specifically said that anyone who 'did' meet Ravage in this time, in all likelihood, wouldn't have the kind of time to sit around and get to know Ravage that way, because he's probably there to *murder them.*

Just rewatch Agenda. Ravage's false pretense to the Maximals is basically, "I'm here for Megatron, and then I'm gone." And even that was a lie, because his intents all along were to kill the rest of them. This is Ravage's 'job.' He shows up, does what needs to be done, and kills anyone who sees him do so. Inside BW itself, Ravage and "a few Decepticons" (who we never see or hear from) and possibly some Autobots somewhere in space are the *only* G1 TFs we know of who are still around. Retro-continuity and the Botcon comics *cannot* count for this, because Bob & Larry didn't write that, and they didn't intend for it to happen.

It'd be like holding Furman's later revelation of Primus and the TF origins against Budiansky, who in the first issue of Marvel G1 claims that the TFs evolved from naturally-occuring gears and pulleys. Budiansky didn't know Furman was going to come along and rewrite the origins.

And you know what? The worst part about this whole thing is that you're technically right. Bob Forward has a foreward (heheheheh) in Titan's older Matrix Quest TPB that I recently picked up. And in it, he says that Hasbro tried to warn them, "Hey, these Transformers fans, you know, they care a lot about their GeeWun." And Bob was basically all, "Well, that won't matter because this is all completely different anyway." And then he said something about a Great War, and visited ATT, and it turns out everyone is already assuming this is G1 he means. So they 'ran with it.'

But simply because they tried to sprinkle in some G1 into the series afterwards *doesn't* mean that they weren't trying hard. And that's the point you're missing.

SynjoDeonecros wrote:Sparky, you are an idiot.

Hey now, that's just uncalled for.

Only Dom can call Sparky and idiot.

Seriously though dude, not cool, and it epitomizes the 'calm down' mantra I've been trying to impress upon you.

They got the whole Ark/Nemesis attack wrong, with the shooting bringing down the Ark and no mention of a raiding party. EVERY FREAKING EXPRESSION THEY GAVE WHEN CONFRONTED WITH A G1 REFERENCE WAS EITHER DISBELIEF OF WONDER THAT IT EXISTS. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

I seriously think you're mistaken in this. The whole Ark/Nemesis thing was just that it was a *really* compressed version of the story that Blackarachnia told Silverbolt. Sure she left out the boarding thing, but surely they filled him in later (since no one was surprised at all the Decepticons on an *Autobot* ship). And like we've said before, they really didn't act *that* amazed when they saw the Ark. I swear, I'm gonna get some screencaps up in this bitch if I have to.

BWprowl wrote:Only Dom can call Sparky and idiot.

What about me? D:

And to be fair, it's alright to do that if you quote TFTM. You're an idiot, Starscream! [/Megatron]

I seriously think you're mistaken in this. The whole Ark/Nemesis thing was just that it was a *really* compressed version of the story that Blackarachnia told Silverbolt. Sure she left out the boarding thing, but surely they filled him in later (since no one was surprised at all the Decepticons on an *Autobot* ship). And like we've said before, they really didn't act *that* amazed when they saw the Ark. I swear, I'm gonna get some screencaps up in this bitch if I have to.

Just for the sake of the argument, I started watching the second third of Agenda pt. 2 and on (because I'm not exactly sure when the Ark reveal is, during the episodes) just to help prove the points. And I stumbled upon my favourite line in all of BW, where Silverbolt hits Cheetor. And then apologises. And hits him again. Great stuff.

Man, Blackarachnia is kind of annoying.

Blah blah blah, Inferno dies, come on. Get to what I want, here, Agenda.

Blah blah Ravage lets Megs go.

Blah blah BA and Silverbolt argue. Aw aren't they so cute moving on. (Man, considering this series as Overrated for a while has kind of jaded the way I watch it.)

Skipping to Agenda 3, 2/3.

Okay that's messed up. Primal says, after Megs takes off, "If Megatron's found what I think he's found, then this battle is just beginning."

Interesting point: Silverbolt points at a star in the sky and says, "That's Venus." So clearly, the Maximals, by this point in the show, are aware that this is Earth. I have no idea at which point during the previous episodes that they figured it out, but it's there and in the open now.

Cheetor has no idea what Primal's talking about, but Primal clearly knows--Megs is after the Ark.

Alright, paydirt. BA leads Silverbolt into the cave (after spending *an episode and a half moving rocks out of the entrance.*) Exact dialogue:

Silverbolt: "By the Matrix! What is it?"
BA: "That, Bowser-boy, is called The Ark."
*Sparky picks up the girl and flies her over some lava.*
"I've heard only legends."
"It's no legend, Jojo."

BA then launches into telling the story. Blahblahblah. It rumbles, and dogbrains makes a comment about the area being "geologically unstable." BA says it's a volcano, and "When it explodes in 1984, our ancestors inside the ship will awaken and start the Great War."

If BA knew so much about GeeWun history, she would know that the war'd been going on for aeons before that (and, in fact, is actually going on at this very moment in Cybertron's past.) Silverbolt says something about "This is why Optimus was worried," and that confirms it--they knew already that the Ark was Here.

I love how Megs's plan to get the access codes out of BA is to shoot the guy 'on the other team.'

Upon seeing is, Cheetor's exact line is, "Woaah. The 'Ark.'"

And then, just like Prowl said, that's 'it.' Nobody else is horribly impressed that it's There, and Primal's dialogue seemingly indicates everybody already 'knew it was there somewhere.' Cheetor's a young'un and Silverbolt has only ever been told this and that about the Ark. Interestingly, Megs is *also* mistaken and claims that they *start* the Great War in 1984. Oops.

So yeah. Looks like they *did* know more about it than we were assuming--but we have no idea quite how 'much.'

And I'd like to point out how 'many' of the bad guys boldly proclaim "I AM EVIL! LOOK HOW EVIL I AM!" *This* is the deep, complex Beast Wars everyone is always raving about? I mean...really?

Onslaught Six wrote:

BWprowl wrote:Only Dom can call Sparky and idiot.

What about me? D:

And to be fair, it's alright to do that if you quote TFTM. You're an idiot, Starscream! [/Megatron]

I seriously think you're mistaken in this. The whole Ark/Nemesis thing was just that it was a *really* compressed version of the story that Blackarachnia told Silverbolt. Sure she left out the boarding thing, but surely they filled him in later (since no one was surprised at all the Decepticons on an *Autobot* ship). And like we've said before, they really didn't act *that* amazed when they saw the Ark. I swear, I'm gonna get some screencaps up in this bitch if I have to.

Just for the sake of the argument, I started watching the second third of Agenda pt. 2 and on (because I'm not exactly sure when the Ark reveal is, during the episodes) just to help prove the points. And I stumbled upon my favourite line in all of BW, where Silverbolt hits Cheetor. And then apologises. And hits him again. Great stuff.

Man, Blackarachnia is kind of annoying.

Blah blah blah, Inferno dies, come on. Get to what I want, here, Agenda.

Blah blah Ravage lets Megs go.

Blah blah BA and Silverbolt argue. Aw aren't they so cute moving on. (Man, considering this series as Overrated for a while has kind of jaded the way I watch it.)

Skipping to Agenda 3, 2/3.

Okay that's messed up. Primal says, after Megs takes off, "If Megatron's found what I think he's found, then this battle is just beginning."

Interesting point: Silverbolt points at a star in the sky and says, "That's Venus." So clearly, the Maximals, by this point in the show, are aware that this is Earth. I have no idea at which point during the previous episodes that they figured it out, but it's there and in the open now.

Cheetor has no idea what Primal's talking about, but Primal clearly knows--Megs is after the Ark.

Alright, paydirt. BA leads Silverbolt into the cave (after spending *an episode and a half moving rocks out of the entrance.*) Exact dialogue:

Silverbolt: "By the Matrix! What is it?"
BA: "That, Bowser-boy, is called The Ark."
*Sparky picks up the girl and flies her over some lava.*
"I've heard only legends."
"It's no legend, Jojo."

BA then launches into telling the story. Blahblahblah. It rumbles, and dogbrains makes a comment about the area being "geologically unstable." BA says it's a volcano, and "When it explodes in 1984, our ancestors inside the ship will awaken and start the Great War."

If BA knew so much about GeeWun history, she would know that the war'd been going on for aeons before that (and, in fact, is actually going on at this very moment in Cybertron's past.) Silverbolt says something about "This is why Optimus was worried," and that confirms it--they knew already that the Ark was Here.

I love how Megs's plan to get the access codes out of BA is to shoot the guy 'on the other team.'

Upon seeing is, Cheetor's exact line is, "Woaah. The 'Ark.'"

And then, just like Prowl said, that's 'it.' Nobody else is horribly impressed that it's There, and Primal's dialogue seemingly indicates everybody already 'knew it was there somewhere.' Cheetor's a young'un and Silverbolt has only ever been told this and that about the Ark. Interestingly, Megs is *also* mistaken and claims that they *start* the Great War in 1984. Oops.

So yeah. Looks like they *did* know more about it than we were assuming--but we have no idea quite how 'much.'

And I'd like to point out how 'many' of the bad guys boldly proclaim "I AM EVIL! LOOK HOW EVIL I AM!" *This* is the deep, complex Beast Wars everyone is always raving about? I mean...really?

Meh, it's still too inconsistent in the details that they give for me to concede to anything. In fact, the evidence you've dug up makes things even muddier on what they did and did not know about the Great War; if they thought it started in 1984, instead of knowing it had been going on for far longer than that, then that gives more credence to the theory that the Maximal Elders locked up as much as possible about Earth and its involvement in the war as possible...but it opens up a hole about why they didn't remember the war on Cybertron during that time. I guess you can say it was lost in the mists of time, but a millennia-long war like that? Kinda hard to ignore or forget; as was mentioned before, the government couldn't cover up ALL of the Great War, and as I said before, classifying the Earth part of it would be easier, since it was the very tail end of it, only lasting about a century or so; a pittance of time compared to the aeons the Great War lasted in its entirety.

There's also Silverbolt's statement that he had only heard "legends" of the Ark; as everyone has noted here, his memory was pretty much wiped or corrupted by his "birth", so someone had to tell him about it. Thing is, if both sides were as knowledgeable about it as you guys claim they were, then why does Silverbolt classify what they had told him as "legends"? If you're so sure that it happened that you "allegedly" don't react strongly to seeing the Ark, you would NOT say that it or the stories around it are legends. "Legend" implies unverified facts and rumors, stories that can neither be proven true or false, but are taken by faith that they are. Perfectly fitting in with the "Arthurian Lore" air the writers were going for, but incompatible with the arguments that they knew as fact more about their history than is let on.

As for Ravage, I know what he was there to do, and I never said they could come to HIM for that info, but his presence and Optimus' statement implying more Decepticons/Autobots being around gives us evidence that there WERE survivors around at that time, and possibly ones that were around AS LONG AS Ravage, that they could go to for this info. We dunno what's up with them, but their very EXISTENCE, as revealed by Optimus and Ravage, proves they could at least be sought after, and that's my entire argument: with them confirmed to exist, even if we don't know what's up with them, we now know that, even if the info was sealed up by the Elders, even if the general population did NOT want to learn more, they exist as a source of information about G1. I get that they tried hard to keep G1 mysterious and vague, and if they hadn't revealed that there were Decepticon/Autobot survivors still alive during that time, they would've likely succeeded, since up until then they had done a fairly decent job of doing what they set out to do. Once they presented Ravage, though, that was it; what they built up was shattered, and we knew it DIDN'T have to be nebulous and vague if the characters didn't want it to be. Seal up the records, make the textbook knowledge of the general populace "Arthurian lore", I can believe that, but once you bring in actual eyewitnesses to those events, you stop giving that air of mystery and show us the man behind the curtain. THAT is what I'm arguing about, here; by showing us there were living witnesses to those events, their attempts to make those events mysterious and undefined became moot.

SynjoDeonecros wrote:As for Ravage, I know what he was there to do, and I never said they could come to HIM for that info, but his presence and Optimus' statement implying more Decepticons/Autobots being around gives us evidence that there WERE survivors around at that time, and possibly ones that were around AS LONG AS Ravage, that they could go to for this info. We dunno what's up with them, but their very EXISTENCE, as revealed by Optimus and Ravage, proves they could at least be sought after, and that's my entire argument: with them confirmed to exist, even if we don't know what's up with them, we now know that, even if the info was sealed up by the Elders, even if the general population did NOT want to learn more, they exist as a source of information about G1. I get that they tried hard to keep G1 mysterious and vague, and if they hadn't revealed that there were Decepticon/Autobot survivors still alive during that time, they would've likely succeeded, since up until then they had done a fairly decent job of doing what they set out to do. Once they presented Ravage, though, that was it; what they built up was shattered, and we knew it DIDN'T have to be nebulous and vague if the characters didn't want it to be. Seal up the records, make the textbook knowledge of the general populace "Arthurian lore", I can believe that, but once you bring in actual eyewitnesses to those events, you stop giving that air of mystery and show us the man behind the curtain. THAT is what I'm arguing about, here; by showing us there were living witnesses to those events, their attempts to make those events mysterious and undefined became moot.

Well, like O6 said, we only see Ravage. And Primal only says "A few Decepticons were granted amnesty", and makes no mention of Autobots.

Now here's where it gets interesting. Primal makes a point that "one of them was rebuilt and reprogrammed...AS A PREDACON! *DUN DUN DUN!!*" Let's ignore the whole 'reprogrammed' bit, since that's a whole 'nother can of worms and doesn't affect my point, and hone in on that 'rebuilt'. Now, I may be wrong, but I would assume that 'rebuilt as a Predacon' would imply that Ravage underwent the Maximal Upgrade (Though he was already pretty small to begin with). So the thing is, why, really, did Ravage have to be rebuilt? I think the answer's simple: He was old. We've seen with guys like Kup and Emirate Xaaron that, though they do it slowly, Transformers do age and become more broken down and crappier as they get older. I don't think it's much of a stretch to assume that they actually have lifespans. So Ravage had himself rebuilt into a new, more efficient body. Maybe the other Decepticons who were granted Amnesty weren't so lucky (one could easily assume that the Tripredacus Council had this done for Ravage). Maybe the reason there's no one to clear up the history books, the reason no one ever mentioned any Autobots or Decepticons hanging out on Cybertron, was that they had all just died out.

Of course, this leads to consideration of other possibilities. I always wondered what the exact circumstances of the Pax Cybertronia were. Now that I think about it, it's likely all the 1984-1990 guys who remembered what they were fighting about in the first place wound up falling in battle as time went on, and the newer guys were like "Screw it, I'm done fighting for this. Let's just make ourselves energy-efficient and quit fighting over this crap". In that case, again, there would be few Transformers that remembered the exact details of all 4 million+ years of the Great War.

But that's just an idea.

Onslaught Six wrote:And I'd like to point out how 'many' of the bad guys boldly proclaim "I AM EVIL! LOOK HOW EVIL I AM!" *This* is the deep, complex Beast Wars everyone is always raving about? I mean...really?

Yeah, I hate Megatron's "Evil triumphs!" line too. Agenda was pretty much perfect up 'til that point. Of course, I'll say here that I never thought Beast Wars was especially deep and complex. I love it because it's a hell of a lot of fun, with excellently written characters and dialogue that doesn't insult my intelligence. It didn't win an Emmy for nothing.

Onslaught Six wrote:Oh, pish-posh! Laserbeak and Buzzsaw are shitty FunPub retrocontinuity, and you know it--you can't use that in argument against BW. That'd be like pointing out flaws in the G1 comics because they're not referencing sparks--of course they aren't, sparks didn't exist back then.

Actually... Despite the concept of the spark as we know it not being developed until Beast Wars, there are references in the G1 comics to a "life spark" or "spark of life" among others (for example; when Jetfire joins the Autobots, he thanks Optimus for using the Creation Matrix "to ignite the spark of life" in him). Admittedly the writers probably intended this as a metaphorical "spark" rather than an actual spark but it actually works either way. And then in G1 cartoon there was even a reference to a "laser core" that if extinguished meant death for the Transformer, and the term has later been used interchangeably with the term "spark".

Anyway, the point being that comic shows the possibility of other Decepticons having been rebuilt as Predacons.

Windrazor was only ever involved in Omega Point, a story that technically didn't even happen now, so he's out. And Rodimus and Arcee were only ever hanging around on Cybertron or elsewhere in space. These people have *other* things to do--they don't have time to sit around whining about GeeWun. (Except Arcee, since that's kind of all she ever did.)

Actually Apelinq escaped with Windrazor through a transwarp portal (Apelinq is the only one that remembers that entire event). It was never revealed what happened to Windrazor after that given he apparently vanished. It's possible he's still somewhere or even reverted back to his original split form. And again, the point is that the comic does show some G1 characters still alive in the Beast Era. Come to think of it there are actually a lot more too. I forgot to mention Grimlock was in the IDW comics (not to mention his original tech specs information). And Prowl (the TM2 owl) is supposed to be like a clone or... something of the original. Then in the Universe comic we saw Sunstreaker, Sideswipe and Trailbreaker. The Magnaboss components (Silverbolt, Prowl and Ironhide) are supposedly the original G1 characters as well.

SynjoDeonecros wrote:Sparky, you are an idiot.

Nice. Name calling. Great way to show you have a calm and rational approach to an argument.

BWprowl wrote:Only Dom can call Sparky and idiot.

Onslaught Six wrote:What about me? D:

Actually I think Dom is more rational than to resort to name calling. Not so much with O6...
Joking aside, it really is uncalled for.

SynjoDeonecros wrote:The ONLY IDW source that hints at BWII taking place other than during BW is the source books, and those are inaccurate and unreliable, plus The Gathering and The Ascending RAN CONCURRENT TO BEAST WARS.

Even with the numerous mistakes, like it or not, IDW's source books are still an official source of information. Unlike Wikipedia which, not to mention, isn't exactly a reliable source itself. Discount them if you like, but for the purposes of this discussion, they still have relevant information. And no, they are not the only hints to when BWII took place given "The Gathering" and "The Ascending" part of which take place at the relative present Cybertron time-frame, as well as in the past with the actual Beast Wars.

Iacon being paved over does NOT IN ANY WAY PROVE THAT IT WAS COVERED UP! EVERYONE in the BW knew about it, EVERYONE. Why even bring up Iacon when talking about what the Elders hid? THEY HAD NO FREAKING REASON TO SEAL IT UP, BECAUSE IT WASN'T RELEVANT TO THE EVENTS THEY WERE HIDING; EARTH AND THE EVENTS OF G1 THAT TOOK PLACE ON IT WAS.

I didn't say it was covered up as in classified, I said it was covered up, as in literally covered up. A new city was built over top of it. And no, not everyone in BW/BM knew about it. As I already told you, Nightscream had no idea what city it was. Optimus filled him on Iacon's history, which again is that with the Great Upgrade from Autobot to Maximal, a new city was built over Iacon. Iacon is still there but it is now an underground abandoned city, because it was built for Autobot inhabitants, not the physically smaller Maximals. Really, I think you need to read my posts more carefully because I already explained all of this and it wouldn't hurt if you go watch the episodes again.

They got the whole Ark/Nemesis attack wrong, with the shooting bringing down the Ark and no mention of a raiding party. EVERY FREAKING EXPRESSION THEY GAVE WHEN CONFRONTED WITH A G1 REFERENCE WAS EITHER DISBELIEF OF WONDER THAT IT EXISTS. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. What more can I say to disprove all the crap you keep on spouting?

Again, as BWprowl said, they're basically compressing the story behind the Ark/Nemesis crashing on Earth. The only thing that really matters to the story is that, not too unlike the Maximals and Predacons ships, both the Ark and Nemesis crashed on Earth. And once again, re-watch the episodes. They are not surprised to see the Ark (or any other G1 reference) as you claim they are.

I'm through arguing this with you; it's clear you guys are blatantly ignoring the facts to come up with your own lame justification for what is, by definition, a writer screwup.

You've said that a couple times, yet you're still posting about it. But anyway, we're not the ones blatantly ignoring the facts here. Several things you've said here simply are not accurate and again, I'd suggest you re-watch the episodes to figure out what the facts actually are. Last I looked, they are all on youtube.