Shattered Glass review

[Dominic]

"I am that which is, which was, and is yet to come. And you will know my name is Megatron when I lay my vengeance upon you".
Megatron said he chose the name from the Covenant of Primus remember? He didn't choose it for historic resonance, he chose it apparently because he believes he has a divine destiny with the name.

True enough. The name had biblical resonance as well.

Of course, if one buys into ideas of "divine destiny", then it makes sense to take a "divine" name.

And to that I've said, just because the Decepticons/Predacons couldn't seem to figure out how to handle to humans still doesn't justify wiping them all out. Really, how often did the Decepticons deal head on with the humans if they were such a problem? Perhaps they should have tried being a little more direct.

The fact that the Decepticons/Predacons could not correctly assess how to deal with humans, (a proven, if not fully quantified, threat), is justification in and of itself for wiping them out. (Let us put aside the considerations of time-travel for a moment.) In context, humans were a consistent threat to the Decepticons. For whatever reason, the Decepticons were unable to deal directy with humans. Does it show great insight on the part of the Decepticons? No. But, the 'cons had to work with what they had on hand. In this case, they had brute-force.

What kind of a leader, or any member of any community, could look his friends, allies and constituents in the eye if he knew he was not doing his best to solve a recurring problem? What kind of a leader would they be?

The same principle could, arguably, be applied to the question of shooting Prime as he was comatose. Preventing Prime from waking up likely would have improved the lots of a good many Decepticons and Predacons, and they are the ones Megatron was responsible for.


Dom

[Sparky Prime]

The fact that the Decepticons/Predacons could not correctly assess how to deal with humans, (a proven, if not fully quantified, threat), is justification in and of itself for wiping them out.

No, it is not. As we've been over again and again, the Decepticons didn't even consider the humans to be a real threat because they saw them as lower lifeforms. BW Megs on the other hand, while he still looked down on humanity, knew that humanity provided a great deal of help to the Autobots, so he was guessing that no humanity would help change history in favor of the Decepticons. That's the real 'threat' that humanity posed here. That they helped the Autobots/Maximals. And because they saw humans as lower lifeforms, they had the tendency to under-estimate them. But no matter how they saw humanity and their plans on dealing with them (or lack-there-of), it does not justify wiping them out.

The same principle could, arguably, be applied to the question of shooting Prime as he was comatose. Preventing Prime from waking up likely would have improved the lots of a good many Decepticons and Predacons, and they are the ones Megatron was responsible for.

But killing Prime, and thus the Matrix with him, would allow Unicron to go unopposed. So what's more important? Being in charge minus a home planet and an unstoppable planet eating machine on the loose, or having a home planet living with the Maximals in control of the government?

[BWprowl]

But killing Prime, and thus the Matrix with him, would allow Unicron to go unopposed. So what's more important? Being in charge minus a home planet and an unstoppable planet eating machine on the loose, or having a home planet living with the Maximals in control of the government?

Hey now, who's to say that killing Prime would also kill the Matrix? I'd think the thing can go on glowing just fine without a living Autobot's chassis around it. For all we know, in Megatron's altered timeline, the Autobots would wake up, see Prime dead, go "Oh snap!" and pass the Matrix over to Prowl or whoever for the time being.

Also, since we're on the subject of the G1 Autobots here, you should note, Sparky, that their situation mirrors that of the Predacons. If the Autobots had just been content to be ruled by the Decepticons (as you're saying Megatron's Predacons should've done with the Maximals), then the Great War never would've happened, and peace (through tyranny) would've reigned.

I think it's also important to point out that BW Megatron was already borderline insane when he enacted his plan to kill the humans (and he'd gone completely off the deep-end by the end of S3). Just sayin'.

[Sparky Prime]

Hey now, who's to say that killing Prime would also kill the Matrix?

Megatron said it in TFTM, when Unicron 'summoned' him. Both indicate that if the Matrix isn't passed on to a new host before the previous host died, then the Matrix dies as well.

Also, since we're on the subject of the G1 Autobots here, you should note, Sparky, that their situation mirrors that of the Predacons. If the Autobots had just been content to be ruled by the Decepticons (as you're saying Megatron's Predacons should've done with the Maximals), then the Great War never would've happened, and peace (through tyranny) would've reigned

And you should note, BWprowl, that it was the Decepticons that started the war in the first place. So the question is why they couldn't be content with what ever government Cybertron had before they started the war. And I don't think there could ever actually be peace under the Decepticons brand of tyranny.

[Dominic]

Given that BW did not strictly adhere to the rules from G1, I am hesitant to consider the Matrix as much a factor in Megatron II's plans. Of course, if you are right, they you have successfully argued that Megatron was being far too irresponsible in shooting Prime.

And, while I buy into the idea that Megatron was a lunatic, (as noted by Prowl), insanity should not be a mitigating factor for Megatron's actions.


Now, my question for Sparky is why the Decepticons/Predacons would be obligated to hold back on behalf of humans?


Dom
-still fuzzy on that last bit.

[Sparky Prime]

Now, my question for Sparky is why the Decepticons/Predacons would be obligated to hold back on behalf of humans?

I believe I've said it before but anyway... It's not that the Decepticons/Predacons would be obligated to hold back (after all they do have a completely different set or morals/ethics), but the question is: why would they waste the effort/time/energy? As we've established, they see humanity as lower lifeforms, a nuisance if anything. The only 'threat' humanity really offers is that a few humans help the Autobots. So why waste the resources to wipe out an entire species when only a few of them annoy you? The more logical solution would be to target the ones that are specifically the problem.

[onslaught86]

I dare say that's exactly the gist of the Megatrons' plan. Wipe them all out when there's only a few of them around full stop, thus conserving resources. Any human is potentially a threat, as proved many a time by the Autobots' sometimes oddball allies. The least likely can be the most dangerous and such.

[Sparky Prime]

I dare say that's exactly the gist of the Megatrons' plan. Wipe them all out when there's only a few of them around full stop, thus conserving resources. Any human is potentially a threat, as proved many a time by the Autobots' sometimes oddball allies. The least likely can be the most dangerous and such.

I'd agree it would probably be easier to wipe out the proto-humans being fewer in number than modern humans and confined to that valley but I'd still have to say it'd probably take a considerable effort to pull off, especially with how few Predacons Megatron had with him. You'd have to take into consideration that many of the proto-humans would be able to escape the valley and then how hard it'd be to track them down. In fact, Inferno reported after their assault failed that it'd be impossible for them to locate all of the humans.

And I'd disagree that any human would potentially be a threat. Really the majority of humans wouldn't stand a chance.

[Dominic]

The made a point of saying that *before* the attack, it would have been possible.

And, O86 hit exactly what I was getting for the last 3 pages.

Dom
-would see it as a moral obligation to wipe out the hostile species.

[Sparky Prime]

The made a point of saying that *before* the attack, it would have been possible.

No they don't. They make a point about them being able to alter history but that's about it. Their plan obviously was to try and wipe out everything in the valley, but even with out the Maximals intervening, it would have been extremely difficult for only 6 Predacons to contain that entire valley. Many proto-humans would have been able to escape either way.

Dom
-would see it as a moral obligation to wipe out the hostile species.

Again, I have to point out it'd be a waste to wipe out an entire species when it is not the entire species that is actually a threat. And I'd argue it is a moral obligation to avoid genocide. I just cannot see a situation being so desperate that genocide is a feasible option.