IDW "Combiner Wars" comic discussion and speculation

[Sparky Prime]

Not to combiner wars it doesn't. And really, O6 is right. It's a debate on the internet, let it go. Shshshshsh.... You hear that? That's the sound of the world not ending.

No, it doesn't matter to Combiner Wars, but it does matter to DC's storyline. It's not like getting a little off topic is uncommon around here, but eventually it gets back on topic. And I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a little support behind a statement that changes the events of the storyline in a pretty big way. I know it's been asked of me before, and I've always come through without making big a fuss about it I'd point out. I'd just appreciate a little of that in return for once. Is that so much to ask for without being harped on for it? I don't think so. Besides, part 3 of CW came out 4 days ago and no one had commented in this topic in that time, at all, until O6 last night.

Anyway, speaking of part 3 of Combiner Wars... Devastator arrives on Caminus telling everyone to go back to Cybertron and starts attacking when not everyone does. Superion engages him but Devastator eventually knocks him out and drags him back through the Spacebridge to Cybertron which he intends to destroy to cut them off from the colony worlds again, believing both worlds will be destroyed if they are reunited. Starscream uses the Enigma of Combination to repair Superion, and knowing he wont be enough, also uses it on the Protectobots to create Defensor. The two Autobot combiners bring down Devastator and Prowl is arrested.

Rook makes his first appearance in this issue as the newest member of the Protectobots, although his presence isn't acknowledged. Starscream even says "you five" despite there being 6 Protectobots shown. Groove also isn't shown as Defensor's chest armor when they combine for some reason. Both Defensor and Superion use some interesting tactics when fighting Devastator like turning a leg into an extra arm and shooting limbs. Superion also somehow split his head into 3 parts to avoid an attack.

[JediTricks]

It doesn't matter to Combiner Wars in any way. The quote is actually from Planetary/Batman: Night on Earth which makes it out of continuity:
http://www.rpg.net/columns/superseeds/s ... ds21.phtml
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Planetary/Batm ... t_on_Earth

And now it REALLY doesn't matter, because we're done with it, these DC comparisons went nowhere.


As for part 3, ugh, I need to get to the comic shop and see that for myself, didn't realize there would be spoilers in the thread.

[Sparky Prime]

As for part 3, ugh, I need to get to the comic shop and see that for myself, didn't realize there would be spoilers in the thread.

It's a speculation and discussion thread... Not to mention it has now been 5 days since that issue came out. It should be a given at this point.

[Dominic]

It doesn't matter to Combiner Wars in any way. The quote is actually from Planetary/Batman: Night on Earth which makes it out of continuity:

I honestly do not recall reading that. Maybe I flipped through it. I dunno.

Luckily, somebody was here to call me out for not being able to remember exactly where I saw/read that though. I might have gotten away with something sneaky, despite having no intention to do so. If only we had Federal Prosecutors who were that diligent.

Is that so much to ask for without being harped on for it? I don't think so.

When somebody says they do not recall where they saw something, calling them a liar and/or demanding an exact quote is more than harping.

Rook makes his first appearance in this issue as the newest member of the Protectobots, although his presence isn't acknowledged. Starscream even says "you five" despite there being 6 Protectobots shown. Groove also isn't shown as Defensor's chest armor when they combine for some reason. Both Defensor and Superion use some interesting tactics when fighting Devastator like turning a leg into an extra arm and shooting limbs. Superion also somehow split his head into 3 parts to avoid an attack.

I heard that there was screwy art (characters being out of place and/misnamed) in the last issue as well.

Odd that Prowl is getting so much page time as part of Devastator.

As for Superion's head splitting trick, it is probably best to assume that he does not transform like the toy and that the head splitting is simply something he can do.

[Sparky Prime]

Luckily, somebody was here to call me out for not being able to remember exactly where I saw/read that though. I might have gotten away with something sneaky, despite having no intention to do so. If only we had Federal Prosecutors who were that diligent.

Who might that have been?

When somebody says they do not recall where they saw something, calling them a liar and/or demanding an exact quote is more than harping.

Oh yeah, that's exactly how things played out Dom.[/sarcasm] Except you didn't say that you didn't recall where you saw the quote until at least 8 posts after I'd asked where they'd said it. Instead, you'd said it was either in Multiversity or Final Crisis, making it seem like you had a pretty good idea of where it was. So then when I casually asked if you could find the quote itself, you'd said you weren't inclined to and started back-peddling on it. So I pressed the issue at that point, but I never "demanded" the exact quote, nor did I ever call you a liar. All I'd said was that your attitude of avoiding backing-up your statement and then back-peddling on it was shady. Much like you're doing here by making it seem like I said things that I didn't while completely downplaying anything on your part.

I heard that there was screwy art (characters being out of place and/misnamed) in the last issue as well.

Yeah, according to the TFwiki, Livio Ramondelli said that he was sent incorrect reference material by IDW, having Grotusque and Mainframe in place of Streetwise and Blades. That error was also in part 2.

As for Superion's head splitting trick, it is probably best to assume that he does not transform like the toy and that the head splitting is simply something he can do.

I guess. Just odd to see them show what the toys can do, like having a leg transform into an arm, yet having something the toys can't do like that in the same issue.

[JediTricks]

Read issues 2 and 3 back to back last night, what a turd. There were a ton of art and language mistakes like Hot Shot getting replaced in a panel with Hot Spot, Livio really seemed off his game with pencils showing in #3 and wonky lighting throughout, my guess is this series was very rushed. Issue 2, Barber's issue, was almost unintelligible from the dialogue to the scene set-ups. There were whole panels I had to study just to figure out what was going on. And then it was merely a slugfest on the ground with some pseudo-political machinations that felt weightless in the plot. The Scott issue, #3, at least seemed to focus more on the "why" of things, but there just wasn't much going on. Prowl's behavior was beyond nonsense. The best news I got was when I saw that this series was closing in just a few more issues. But then we'll have Combiner Hunters afterwards.

Why did nobody call out Starscream for having the Enigma? Because doy? Oh, right.

Rook appears on Caminus in issue 2 as part of the escaping locals, then is a face in the crowd behind the other Protectobots. I guess he made it through the spacebridge (aka they had to cheat considerably to get him anywhere near the team, as they sure didn't show it).

[Dominic]

Based on what people are saying, I would guess that Barber and Scott are setting up to redeem Prowl by saying he is/was crazy. This may or may not have been planned since just before "Dark Cybertron". But, it would let them make Prowl firmly an Autobot again for "Combiner Wars", and they could use the combination process to "heal", and make him just like any other Autobot....

Just a guess though.

[andersonh1]

He did go from being possessed by Bombshell to being forcibly merged with the Constructicons. That can't have been mentally healthy for him.

[JediTricks]

And, if I recall, no Hasbro packaging mentions the Enigma of Combination (let along the idiotic backstory used for it in the comics). That would imply that more blame for the stupid McGuffin (and related back-writing) falls on Barber, and is thus harder to forgive. (Barber was not just following a work order, he made a choice to pitch lower.)

I'm taking this conversation to the comics discussion thread. I don't know that you can give Barber that much shit about the enigma, for years the IDWverse has been taking a wildly different path with combiners, saying they're rare and they aren't much of a thing anymore, that the technology to how they work has been lost. So when Hasbro says "we need a bunch more combiners", what else is he gonna do but find the gadget that unlocks that technology within the bots? It was a McGuffin only in the issues starting with #34, but the reality is that it's not a McGuffin anymore, it has plot value as an active element in storytelling now. That said, how Starscream is going to hide his dishonesty over who had it when and why is going to be something that will make it problematic from a storytelling perspective, either own your choices or ignore them and face consequences.


As for Prowl's turn, it feels like they've been going down this path for a lot longer, look at his actions even in Last Stand of the Wreckers, he's been too shady to be believable as a good guy, one has to ask one's self why Optimus trusts him at all at this point, and if that trust is carrying enough weight as a storytelling choice.

[Dominic]

Prowl seemed to be honestly remorseful right before "Dark Cybertron". (Recall him being almost offended that nobody realized he was under mind control.) Having the Constructicons announce that they really liked him might have been enough to push him completely over the edge.

I don't know that you can give Barber that much shit about the enigma, for years the IDWverse has been taking a wildly different path with combiners, saying they're rare and they aren't much of a thing anymore, that the technology to how they work has been lost. So when Hasbro says "we need a bunch more combiners", what else is he gonna do but find the gadget that unlocks that technology within the bots? It

Barber could have done this any number of ways that did not involved back-writing in a stupid magical suppository in the stupidest possible way. The McGuffin of Combobulation did not need to be a magical source of human civilization (a stupid cliche to begine with), nor did it need to relate to Blackrock's family ( which is descended from Gilgamesh or some shit).

Barber could have run with the change and progress theme and just assumed that they finally had a research breakthrough that let them produce combiners.

Barber writing comics is no reason for his stuff to read like stereotypical comics. Hasbro did not force those choices on Barber. He made his own mistakes.