story idea

[Shockwave]

Yes, there are lines that they would and have crossed, but out and out murder isn't one of them. The moment they do, I'm out regardless of who's writing the fiction. The one thing that each incarnation of TF has impressed upon the fandom over the years is that one of the main differences between the Autobots and Decepticons is that the Autobots have a higher regard for life and don't resort to murder. That's why I'm saying that the idea really could work, but once you cross that line into turning the Autobots into murderers you're no longer keeping the characters true to themselves.

[Gomess]

Sorry Trek, but I'm partly with Dom here... You gotta take the characters in question into account.

Prowl would TOTALLY sacrifice human life for the Autobot cause. He's as good as done it before, even as early as the Marvel G1 comics (Furman in particular was fond of playing up his Brutal Pragmatist similarities to Shockwave).

That said... Kup? Nah. He never struck me as the type to touch subjects like assassination with a 10 foot pole. He's an old skool soldier boy.

But anyway, crossing the murder line... The Autobots? No. Prowl? Problee.

[Dominic]

Gomess, what issues of Marvel (UK?) are you citing?

That said, IDW Kup effectively is Prowl, owing to the events of "Coda". So, if you assume that Prowl would, then you have to assume Kup would. (Of course, Prowl changed as Costa is writing him. But, Costa has not changed Kup.)


Dom
-not even going to hope for this ever happening.

[Gomess]

I wish I could remember. I'll get to it in my STILL FORTHCOMING G1 Marvel retrospective...

But basically, Runamuck and Runabout are making motorway mischief as usual, and Prowl resorts to imitating their reckless driving, and honeypot tactics, to apprehend them. Jazz criticises him, but backs down (he doesn't "dig conflict" after all) when Prowl gets all ONE HUMAN LIFE IS NOT WORTH ONE MILLION! It was an Earthforce story, you know, Furman-penned, Senior-pencilled, based on the Euro-only "Classics" re-released Autobot cars of the early 90s.

As I recall, Prowl's methods even offended Sunstreaker, who was always kind of a badass in the Earthforce stories, but hated to see anything beautiful being damaged.

EDIT: Or was it Wildman on art? Dang, I can't remember... But the panel of Prowl defending his decision is very vivid in my mind. He's pointing back at a smoking wreck.

[Shockwave]

Prowl was said to have programed certain elements into Kup, but he never said it was his whole personality and besides, Kup's charisma is still intact, so Kup isn't necessarily Prowl. Granted, he's a lot more susceptible to Prowl's suggestions, but that's a long way from saying that the two are one and the same. Anyway, I could beleive that under the right circumstances Prowl would since you could use logic to justify almost anything, but I don't think this type of situation would be that exception. That said, the concept is an intriguing one and I would like to see IDW do it. I doubt it'll happen either, but hey, the Prowl/Kup/Perceptor thing is a story for another day...

[BWprowl]

I was under the impression that one purpose of Prowl's rejiggering of Kup was to use his charisma to keep the Autobots closer to their noble "Good Guy" roots. That was the whole point of the mission in LSotW anyway, to prevent records of unsavory Autobots from falling into damning hands. So Kup doing nasty stuff like squishing Verity during the mission would only exacerbate the issue. Anyway, I assume the Autobots (and Prowl) know that Verity's back on Earth now, just trying to keep quiet, and not really talking to anybody about how good/bad the Autobots are. And considering that NONE of the Transformers exactly have good PR on Earth right now anyway, I doubt it's much of an issue to Prowl/Kup.

Look, I enjoy the shades of grey the IDW Autobots have been portrayed in as much as anybody, but I really can't see this sort of story working without some real stretching.

[Dominic]

Prowl had Kup re-programmed to *think* more like him. In other words, Kup will think more like pre-"Spotlight" Prowl, potentially making Kup one of the more ruthless Autobots. Remember, Prowl was not trying to make the Autobots do a collective face-turn. He was trying to make the Autobots fight more effectively and rationally.

I found the story Gomess was referencing. Sunstreaker did not seem terribly offended. (And, Prowl did not do anything that bad.)


Dom
-what if Verity made herself a target?

[Gomess]

Sunstreaker did not seem terribly offended.

Huh, I must be mixing it up with another story.

And, Prowl did not do anything that bad.

Am I wrong..? Did he *not* knowingly endanger human life? 'Cos that IS "that bad", according to Marvel UK's Autobot Code.

[Dominic]

It was also pretty much unavoidable. Prime was being snitty.

[Onslaught Six]

This all partially comes from Dom's own views. It seems like whenever we talk military strategies of fictional characters, Dom kind of leans towards Prowl's point of view--a few are okay to be lost in the greater cause of Many. (Unless I'm wrong, in which, feel free to correct me.)