TF Views

Posted: **Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:24 pm**

Many of the newer vehicles are pretty anemic. And, the Water Mocassin you mention is an old mold, with is noticably too small for modern figures. I can see where O6 is coming from on this one, even counting for my own sentimental attachment to some of the vehicles.

Even the old vehicles do not quite look right. They have unpainted, but moulded detail. The moulding draws attention to the lack of paint.

Dom

Posted: **Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:21 pm**

Dominic wrote:Many of the newer vehicles are pretty anemic. And, the Water Mocassin you mention is an old mold, with is noticably too small for modern figures. I can see where O6 is coming from on this one, even counting for my own sentimental attachment to some of the vehicles.

The 25th Water Moccasin is an all-new mold, actually. About half of the 25th vehicles are all new, but look like the classics at first blush.

Posted: **Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:30 pm**

JediTricks wrote:
Onslaught Six wrote:It's funny that you mention this, because I have 'always' found Joe vehicles very very lacking. They don't...do anything, for the money I paid for them. I bought several from the 25th line, primarily to get the figure that came with them. And they just weren't good.
You young people make me sick. Your imaginations have been eroded away to nothing, which is what brought us the dreadful '90s GI Joe lines that had to "do something" like shoot nerf missiles. What Joe vehicles did you experience that you are referring to specifically? I quite like the 25th line's Water Moccasin, for example.

The ones with figures I wanted--The Night Spectre/SHARC, the VAMP, the HISS Tank (which I'll admit I liked simply because I love the HISS design--more in a sec), Serpentor's chariot/that tank thing, and I think that was it.

The HISS, though. I mean, I know it's the classic design--but the DTC HISS from a few years ago, that toy was much better.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:14 am**

Onslaught Six wrote:The ones with figures I wanted--The Night Spectre/SHARC

Ugh, you may have crossed a line there, sport. That flying sub is one of my favorites. No, it doesn't have a lot of flashy gimmicks, just an engine hatch with detailed engine, movable rear flaps, and pop-up guns. But the idea of the flying 1-man submarine is so cool! To not like it is to not have an imagination.

the VAMP

The Vamp is indeed a little boring. It's a "here-to-there" vehicle. It has a slightly sporty rake to the design, but is otherwise fairly simple like most of the '82 and '83 vehicles.

Serpentor's chariot/that tank thing

Serpentor blows, anything he's got is going to blow too.

The HISS, though. I mean, I know it's the classic design--but the DTC HISS from a few years ago, that toy was much better.

I do have to agree with you on the HISS, it's one of those vehicles that looked like it had promise but was a big snore in person. I am not familiar with the DTC one, had to look it up. Looks a little bulky for a high speed sentry, but has more going on as a toy.

Seems like you're missing out, look at the '84 through '90 vehicles and I think you'll see 75% great designs.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:18 am**

JediTricks wrote:
Onslaught Six wrote:The ones with figures I wanted--The Night Spectre/SHARC
Ugh, you may have crossed a line there, sport. That flying sub is one of my favorites. No, it doesn't have a lot of flashy gimmicks, just an engine hatch with detailed engine, movable rear flaps, and pop-up guns. But the idea of the flying 1-man submarine is so cool! To not like it is to not have an imagination.

The thing was huge! It took up way too much space for what it was. Space is valuable here.

The HISS, though. I mean, I know it's the classic design--but the DTC HISS from a few years ago, that toy was much better.

I do have to agree with you on the HISS, it's one of those vehicles that looked like it had promise but was a big snore in person. I am not familiar with the DTC one, had to look it up. Looks a little bulky for a high speed sentry, but has more going on as a toy.

Seems like you're missing out, look at the '84 through '90 vehicles and I think you'll see 75% great designs.[/quote]

I disagree--because I have some of those vehicles. Hunting through conventions and yard sales netted me relatively cheap ones, too, with most of their stuff intact. I've got a Dragonfly somewhere--that's way too small when you consider that even the early 90s figures are bulkier than the '83 line. I've also got Destro's Despoiler...which is a boring little Robotnik-style vehicle for Destro to ride around in. And I have some other ones, but nothing with me.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:05 pm**

The flying sub is a sentimental favorite. It is pretty boring. The cockpit could have had so much more going on. For a toy from the early 80s, it is okay. But, nothing to go nuts over. And, I idiomatically agree with O6 about it not displaying well.

My gut tells me that the Cobra Dropship for the ROC line will be much the same. I can see a kid falling in love with that mold as a toy. But, there is not much going on otherwise.

The HISS is, putting aside sentimental attachments that someone my age would have, terrible.

Serpentor blows, anything he's got is going to blow too.

Ah, toy-hackery. I suppose you prefer the hard-core realism of the FANG?

Serpentor is a favorite of mine, and yeah I like the DDP take on the character.

The chariot sold for the 25A figures is terrible though, being about 30% too small for the figure it is sold with. It works nicely with the original figure...which the mould was scaled for...mumble grumble stupid o-rings.

Dom
-notes the Despoiler is better than the Dictator.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:47 pm**

Onslaught Six wrote:The thing was huge! It took up way too much space for what it was. Space is valuable here.

The SHARC isn't huge, it's a standard $15-$20 vehicle size. The Killer WHALE is huge. The Defiant Space Launch Complex is huge.

I disagree--because I have some of those vehicles. Hunting through conventions and yard sales netted me relatively cheap ones, too, with most of their stuff intact. I've got a Dragonfly somewhere--that's way too small when you consider that even the early 90s figures are bulkier than the '83 line. I've also got Destro's Despoiler...which is a boring little Robotnik-style vehicle for Destro to ride around in. And I have some other ones, but nothing with me.

Dominic wrote:The flying sub is a sentimental favorite. It is pretty boring. The cockpit could have had so much more going on. For a toy from the early 80s, it is okay. But, nothing to go nuts over. And, I idiomatically agree with O6 about it not displaying well.

It was $6.50, what do you want? It floated and had a figure that could dive depths! And you guys are crazy, it's a flying submarine, it looks like a flying sub, you can peg other Joe diver figures to the bottom, it had torpedoes and a deep sea diver as the pilot. That's a cool display, and fun as hell to play with if you didn't expect it to shoot missiles or beep and light up and do all the playing for you.

My gut tells me that the Cobra Dropship for the ROC line will be much the same. I can see a kid falling in love with that mold as a toy. But, there is not much going on otherwise.

You don't know what you're talking about. The Gunship is unpopular because it's boring and looks like a helicopter without blades and it DOESN'T EVEN HAVE GUNS!!! Kids have seen that shape already, it's not inspiring, and its spring-out missiles are a snore. It is a boring, simplistically-detailed turd.

The HISS is, putting aside sentimental attachments that someone my age would have, terrible.

Nobody was claiming otherwise.

Ah, toy-hackery. I suppose you prefer the hard-core realism of the FANG?

Serpentor is a favorite of mine, and yeah I like the DDP take on the character.

What are you blathering about? Serpentor sucks as a character from every angle conceivable, in foundation and in aesthetic, no retconning in a comic book is going to save that chariot toy from sucking. You'll notice that my list above didn't include shit about the FANG because the FANG is an uninteresting design. You claim to have some insight about what I do and don't like about this, claiming I'm a Toy-Hack here and that I'm looking for realism, but once again you are just throwing out the "toy hack" claim without any analysis, using it as a generic insult to anybody who has about a non-new toy a valid point with which he doesn't agree.

You know why "the ones I had as a kid" are better? BECAUSE THEY ARE BETTER! I can be objective about this, can you? Look at my list, I had maybe 1/3rd of those but they were all awesome - I didn't list some of the shittier ones from those eras because I didn't get them. The movie vehicles sucked, the best one is the Steel Crusher and it's only ok. But I can look objectively at the Sigma 6 Mission Scale vehicle line, or the upcoming Pursuit of Cobra line, and find vehicles like the new HISS or the Ice Cutter that are cool.

mumble grumble stupid o-rings.

O-rings were a really good solution, and if they broke you or your dad could easily replace them since the figures were easy to disassemble. The O-ring made realistic poses possible that other toy lines like Star Wars couldn't pull off. It made vehicles with cockpits shaped like real stuff rather than just an L-shaped chair, so you could have sleek seats nearly laying down. They're not the reason the figures got arbitrarily bigger.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:11 pm**

The fact you keep hating on Serpentor makes you a toyhack. (He came out in '86, and replaced comforting old Cobra Commander.)

The chariot was a good character specific vehicle for toys that were properly scaled fot it. Zartan's skier was (if I remember correctly) a pretty good toy.

I liked the Dragonfly, aside from the "hit yourself in the face" rotors.

The Sharc displays well if you are wiling to build a diorama.

Stuff I had, or played with:

-Whale: Good idea, terrible execution. The hinge covers on the guns popped off during normal play. There were other fragility issues.
-Tomohawk: Good idea. Flawed execution. If the lifting cable was mounted *inside* the copter, with a trap door under it, it would have been vastly improved.
-Moray: Never had a complete one, but it seemed to hold up pretty well.
-Rattler: See above.
-Water Mocassin: a good toy. Incorrectly presented as a transport, when it was a patrol/assault vehicle.
-Flight pod: Good at the time. Suffers now for being out of scale.
-Firebat: Utter crap. No detailing. No real fiddle value. (The Terrordrome looks like it was pretty good though.)
-Silver Mirage: fragile garbage. I have seen better knock-offs.
-Thunder Machine: good mould, badly painted. Could have done with more customizability (swappable parts and such), but a good toy.
-Wolf: to cruddy plastic trays that snap together. Wow.

O-rings were a really good solution, and if they broke you or your dad could easily replace them since the figures were easy to disassemble. The O-ring made realistic poses possible that other toy lines like Star Wars couldn't pull off. It made vehicles with cockpits shaped like real stuff rather than just an L-shaped chair, so you could have sleek seats nearly laying down. They're not the reason the figures got arbitrarily bigger.

O-rings are crap. It is a good thing they were easy to fix because they *are* easy to break.

Dom
-and the original 13 are boring.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:20 am**

JediTricks wrote:
Onslaught Six wrote:The thing was huge! It took up way too much space for what it was. Space is valuable here.
The SHARC isn't huge, it's a standard $15-$20 vehicle size. The Killer WHALE is huge. The Defiant Space Launch Complex is huge.

It was huge compared to the figures. Keep in mind, I was using my headboard as a shelf for Joes. I could line maybe three rows of them up with stands. There just wasn't any 'room' for this thing.

Here's a list of some of the cooler vehicles, let's see what you think (I won't list the SHARC since you had one):

See, I even had some repeated attempts to get some of those vehicles, or fascimiles thereof--they rereleased the Night Raven in the 25th line and I had 'zero' desire for it. Because it was huge. Sure, it's a plane with some features like, uh...opening cockpit? Lowering landing gear? And stuff? Er, woo?

The thing is, for a comparable price...I could get a TF. I could even get a jet TF who is likely to have most of those same features. (Opening cockpit is one that's kinda going away more and more, but it's not like there's any figures to go in them.)

Water vehicles...don't interest me. Like, almost at all. To get any visual mileage out of them, you kinda...need water. And I'm twenty years old, I'm not about to go fill up my bathtub to play with toys in it. The same goes for snow-based vehicles and figures. And to be fair--I'm looking at it from a reserved-adult-Joe-collector point of view, not one as a kid. And it doesn't help that I'm not even really into Joe in the first place 'for the Joes,' they just happen to come with the territory. I'm in it for Cobra Commander being awesome. (Sometimes, I forget that.)

Also, everyone always freaks out about those huge playsets like the Defiant and the Terrordrome, but honestly I couldn't give a shit. I don't have the room for that kind of space-sucking thing, and on top of that--I had bunches of playsets as a kid. And you know what? They were pretty boring. The Technodrome mostly sat around 'being the Technodrome,' because the inside was too ridiculously small to handle any kind of real-scale battle happening.

Buzz Boar - http://www.yojoe.com/vehicles/87/buzzboar/

I've got this thing. It's 'terrible.' It doesn't even make sense. Like that stupid mole pod thing from the movie that was always a ripoff of that ridiculous drill vehicle the Shredder always rode around in. (I had that thing as a kid, too. Actually, two of them. It was equally dumb.)

It was $6.50, what do you want?

When it was released, single-packed Joes were about $5, so it was closer to being $10. For $10, I expected equal complexity and awesome to any given Deluxe.

You know why "the ones I had as a kid" are better? BECAUSE THEY ARE BETTER!

Not really. All Joe vehicles suck. Even the ones when you were a kid.

Here's the thing--I grew up in the 90s. GI Joe was cancelled in '94, and before that was really really bad. (Okay, some of the moulds were objectively good, but the colours ruined them.) It didn't come back in any format I could actively purchase with any reliance until 2002, by which point I was already a young teenager and had been collecting TFs for several years. I expected (and still expect) my money to get a certain mileage, and Joe vehicles simply 'do not' give me that at all.

O-rings were a really good solution,

in 1982.

Dominic wrote:The fact you keep hating on Serpentor makes you a toyhack. (He came out in '86, and replaced comforting old Cobra Commander.)

It wasn't until the movie that Serpentor really "replaced" Cobra Commander.

O-rings are crap. It is a good thing they were easy to fix because they *are* easy to break.

To be fair, I'm sorta interested in this year's JoeCon set being that it's Red Shadows. They're basically doing a set I've wanted for years. I could only want it more if it were 25th moulds.

-and the original 13 are boring.

They really are. It was only the comic that made any of them decent characters. I had a goal to get the O13 in 25th format, and I nearly succeeded--the only ones I lack are Zap, Short-Fuse and Grunt (and Grunt has a fascimile in the O13-style Duke who came with Red Star.) And as I got them, I was realizing that this was a pretty dumb goal to have--the only reason, I think, I started doing it, was so I had some really easily-defined terms with which to build a Joe team on--seeing as I knew I was going to end up with all the Cobra guys. (Except fucking Mindbender! He's the only one I'm missing. Good thing I can't notice my old SpyTroops version isn't quite right when he's all the way in the back.)

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:12 am**

And it doesn't help that I'm not even really into Joe in the first place 'for the Joes,' they just happen to come with the territory. I'm in it for Cobra Commander being awesome. (Sometimes, I forget that.)

I never got the idea of one faction over the other. The Joes have plenty of colorful characters. For a time, my sub-collecting for Joes included every character from MA and every character that died in the Marvel/DDP series. Hasbro screwing me out of Doc pretty much killed that. Similarly, up until t he movie line, I was focused on getting every character with an animal. But, Law and Order being in a $25 boxed set, (and Law being a terrible figure), and the (tacky as hell) Crimson Neo Viper having a snake ended that. (I still have most characters with a dog, minus a few iterations of Mutt and Junkyard. Yes, I have Quinn and the '02 Snow Serpent.)

The Technodrome mostly sat around 'being the Technodrome,' because the inside was too ridiculously small to handle any kind of real-scale battle happening.

Your point of reference for this is off, likely as a result of your age. The Technodrome was crap. In the 80s, we had better playsets. (I still want something comparable to the Go-Bots Command Center. And, I have heard nothing but good things about the Renegade analogue.) We had out share of clunkers, such as the too-small Castle Grayskull. Playsets in the 90s were very anemic though.

The Terrordrome is great. (The cartoon incorrectly portrayed it as a main HQ, when it was supposed to be field HQ. The comic stated there were dozens, if not hundreds of Terrordromes. In some cases, they were within walking distance of each-other.)

When it was released, single-packed Joes were about $5, so it was closer to being $10. For $10, I expected equal complexity and awesome to any given Deluxe.

JT meant that it cost $6.50 then. That would be like ~$15-$20 now. (This actually proves your point further, but JT''s statement beared clarification.)

It wasn't until the movie that Serpentor really "replaced" Cobra Commander.

It was actually during season 4 of the cartoon, right before the movie that this happened. (The movie was effectively the last SunBow episode.)

To be fair, I'm sorta interested in this year's JoeCon set being that it's Red Shadows. They're basically doing a set I've wanted for years. I could only want it more if it were 25th moulds.

Agreed. I am tempted to make customs of this, though the troopers would be an expensive and tedious labor.

(Except fucking Mindbender! He's the only one I'm missing. Good thing I can't notice my old SpyTroops version isn't quite right when he's all the way in the back.)

I can keep and eye out for that set at the convention. What are you willing to pay for it? I can take a few of the figures. But, you would have to eat most of them.

Dom

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