TF Views

And, because this thread has been moribund:

Ya know that movie "The Men Who Stare at Goats"?

Well, how long until we get "The Men Who Stare at Goatze"?

Eh, eh, eh?


Dom
-is actually kind of ashamed of that one.

Men Who Stare At Goats was terrible. Full stop.

Alright, I overgeneralized a bit about the four pre-Batman Begins Batman movies. Yeah, there's some awful stuff in all of them. But they're a frustrating mix of enjoyable Batman action and embarassingly camp scenery-chewing. So here's my brief thoughts on all four.



Batman
Out of the four I've probably seen this one the most times. My main complaint is that there's not enough Batman in the movie. Far too much time is spent on the Joker and the Bruce Wayne/Vicki Vale romance plot, which we all know isn't going anywhere since Bruce is Batman first and foremost. But the movie finally changed the general public's perception of Batman into something other than the Adam West version from the late 60s, so it accomplished a lot of what it set out to do. Micheal Keaton turns out to be a decent Batman, despite all the gripes at the time, and Jack Nicholson does a decent job as the Joker, though he's a bit old and fat for the role. The Batmobile is still my favorite version ever.

Batman Returns
I hadn't seen this one since it was out in the theaters, and that's been almost 20 years now I guess. More Batman is certainly a plus. Christopher Walken's attempts at 'acting' are a minus. The guy is terrible. And I'm not sure what possessed the writers to make the suave, gentleman thief Penguin into a mutant raised by penguins in the sewers. Danny DeVito plays the character as a lewd and disgusting freak that I can hardly stand to watch. On the other hand, I was pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed Michelle Pfieffer's Catwoman. This is a pretty dark movie all around, particularly when the Penguin's plan to kidnap and kill all the firstborn children in Gotham is revealed. But in a lot of ways, I like it better than the first one, and I hadn't expected that.

Batman Forever
The movie series goes cartoony, and the grotesquely odd villains cross the line into unbelievably over the top scenery chewers. Jim Carrey is amazingly bad as the Riddler, and Tommy Lee Jones is just as bad as Two-Face. There are some funny moments admittedly, such as when Riddler tells Two-Face "show me how to punch a guy!" "Dead simple, my boy!" Val Kilmer makes a pretty decent Batman/Bruce Wayne, and is probably closer to the 'pretty-boy' Bruce Wayne that the comics and cartoons suggest. And in amongst all the silliness, Chris O'Donnell is the best part of the movie as he plays Dick Grayson/Robin with earnestness and honesty as the character looks for a way to get revenge for the death of his family. Nicole Kidman is awful.

Batman and Robin
This movie is half and half: half is an earnest, genuinely moving storyline about family as Alfred is dying and the others have to cope. The other half is just bad, bad, bad. Bad acting and bad puns from Schwarzenneger and embarassing camp Mae West wannabe acting from Uma Thurman. And Bane is wasted as dumb muscle. The viewer is jerked around as we go from utter silliness with ice skating and giant diamonds to Alfred concealing his pain and condition until he can't hide it any more. Barbara/Batgirl turns up, but oddly she's not Gordon's daughter. But then Gordon is useless in this movie series anyway. And even as Batman, George Clooney has that head-shaking tic going on constantly.

In all four movies, the best thing any of them have going for them is Micheal Gough as Alfred. He delivers his lines and plays his part with dry wit or earnest sincerity, and is always great to watch.

So, best to worst Batman: I think the order in which they appeared. Keaton, Kilmer, Clooney. Best movie... eh, probably 2,1,3,4. And I'm surprised that I prefer Returns to Batman, but I really did this time around.

See I would rank them 1, 3, 2, 4. 1 I liked because it set up the universe and I don't feel like it tried to do too much. It was Batman vs. the Joker and that was it. 2 was pretty bad all around, but I especially draw the line when, in a movie with a multi MILLION dollar budget, you can tell that the set was made of styrofoam, it's utterly unacceptable. We're watching the big screen, not a high school play. 3 I liked because of the Riddler. I mean it's the Riddler! He's SUPPOSED to be over the top and Carey nailed it perfectly. Kilmer and the rest were meh. Chrise O'Donnell did stand out though. 4 was ruined for me for the same reason as 2. In a movie with that huge of a budget, you HAVE to make sure your special effects are perfect. That means that when random Gotham citizen gets out of his car that's just been frozen over the icecicle that was on the back fender shouldn't be danlging from the door because anyone that's been where there's actual ice knows it doesn't move like that.

Shockwave wrote:See I would rank them 1, 3, 2, 4.

I would have done that myself up until my recent re-watching of the four movies. I was surprised to find that 3 had gone down in my estimation and 2 had gone up, because at the time 3 first came out I thought it was a big improvement over the second movie.

2 was pretty bad all around, but I especially draw the line when, in a movie with a multi MILLION dollar budget, you can tell that the set was made of styrofoam, it's utterly unacceptable. We're watching the big screen, not a high school play.

Yeah, they ought to have hidden that a bit better.

I don't know if you've seen the George Clooney football movie "Leatherheads". It wasn't especially good, but he shot parts of the film in upstate SC where I live, and I got a part as an extra. Spent a week up in Traveler's Rest filming at one of the high schools up there, and they had constructed a "stone" football stadium facade on one side of the high school football field. It looked pretty convincing, but I got some good up-close looks at it, and it was entirely made of painted styrofoam. They had signs here and there telling us to be sure not to pick pieces of it off, because it was so easy to damage. Had I not seen it up close, I wouldn't have know that it was styrofoam. I'm guessing that this is a common practice because it's cheap and lightweight.

3 I liked because of the Riddler. I mean it's the Riddler! He's SUPPOSED to be over the top and Carey nailed it perfectly.

See, the Riddler isn't supposed to be this over the top psycho like the Joker. He's obsessed with his riddles certainly, but he's not an out and out lunatic. And I'm at the point where I just don't find Jim Carrey entertaining any more. I used to find his brand of comedy amusing to a point, but not any more.

andersonh1 wrote:I don't know if you've seen the George Clooney football movie "Leatherheads". It wasn't especially good, but he shot parts of the film in upstate SC where I live, and I got a part as an extra. Spent a week up in Traveler's Rest filming at one of the high schools up there, and they had constructed a "stone" football stadium facade on one side of the high school football field. It looked pretty convincing, but I got some good up-close looks at it, and it was entirely made of painted styrofoam. They had signs here and there telling us to be sure not to pick pieces of it off, because it was so easy to damage. Had I not seen it up close, I wouldn't have know that it was styrofoam. I'm guessing that this is a common practice because it's cheap and lightweight.

No shit! I like that movie. It's what convinced me John Krasinski could've played Captain America (back when he was being rumoured as him).

Onslaught Six wrote:

andersonh1 wrote:I don't know if you've seen the George Clooney football movie "Leatherheads". It wasn't especially good, but he shot parts of the film in upstate SC where I live, and I got a part as an extra. Spent a week up in Traveler's Rest filming at one of the high schools up there, and they had constructed a "stone" football stadium facade on one side of the high school football field. It looked pretty convincing, but I got some good up-close looks at it, and it was entirely made of painted styrofoam. They had signs here and there telling us to be sure not to pick pieces of it off, because it was so easy to damage. Had I not seen it up close, I wouldn't have know that it was styrofoam. I'm guessing that this is a common practice because it's cheap and lightweight.

No shit! I like that movie. It's what convinced me John Krasinski could've played Captain America (back when he was being rumoured as him).

They told us "don't go up and talk to the stars" and so I didn't, but I did say hello to Krasinski. A bunch of us were sitting in the shade one afternoon, and he came up and sat down a few feet away. It was only polite to say hello, and he said hello back, and after that I left him alone as requested. Never said anything to Clooney or Zellweger, but he walked right by several times as director, and he was out there throwing the football around with her and a few others one afternoon in between takes.

It was fun, despite the fact that as an extra I spent most of the time just sitting around waiting to do something, and we got to do the same takes over and over. And though I recognized the scenes we were in, I never saw myself in the film. I need to get the DVD and slow-motion it some time.

It's funny, because usually I like Tim Burton's work (or at least I did until seeing Alice in Wonderland this year) but I just didn't care for either of the first two Bat-movies. All the hype over the first one (remember Bat-mania? Drove me friggin' nuts) just turned me off, and I had to be pretty much literally dragged to it. Afterwards, my initial opinion hadn't changed. It wasn't horrible, but I still didn't care for it.

As for the second one, yeah, I have no idea why anyone thought making the Penguin a freakish sewer-mutant was that good an idea. If you want freakish sewer-mutant, you got Clayface or Killer Croc to play with. Maybe if there'd been some juxtaposing of monstrous character acting suave and dapper, but it never really happened, you just get DeVito acting crude and hideous. And Catwoman...probably my least favorite Bat-villain anyway, the new origin didn't help my opinion of that character any. So pretty much didn't like that one much, either. In fact, I don't think I've seen it all the way through, just caught bits of it here and there.

Three...man, I really don't like Jim Carrey, but everything else in this one worked for me. It was more retarded and cartoonish, but it looked good. Plus it had Two-Face, and I do like Two-Face. As much as I like Tommy Lee Jones as an actor, though, I was really hoping for Billy Dee Williams to reprise the Harvey Dent role. That would have been amazing.

Batman and Robin has the same thing going on, couldn't stand Schwarzenneger as Mr. Freeze, but the rest of the movie...okay, was stupid. But I don't know, there was a lot of interesting visuals going on here, the crazy neon gang for instance. What other movie has crazy neon gangs? And why were they there? Who the hell knows, it's a retarded gimmick for a gang, sure, but it looked really cool. So I guess other than Bane, Batgirl, and Mr. Freeze, this movie was slightly tolerable, in a bad movie way. That's gotta be the faintest praise ever, but to break it down favorite to least favorite? 3, 4, 1, 2.

Of course, I like "Batman '66" more than "Batman Begins", so perhaps my two cents there is suspect. "Dark Knight" was awesome, though.

Onslaught Six wrote:
No shit! I like that movie. It's what convinced me John Krasinski could've played Captain America (back when he was being rumoured as him).

Y'know who I'd have liked for Cap? He was never rumored for the role, or considered, but man, if I was running things, John Barrowman would have been my first pick for Captain America.

And Anderson, that's pretty awesome you got to be in that flick, even if you can't find yourself in there.

138 Scourge wrote:Of course, I like "Batman '66" more than "Batman Begins", so perhaps my two cents there is suspect. "Dark Knight" was awesome, though.

Oh hell yeah! Batman The Movie easily beats all four of the movies being discussed here. None of those movies had an exploding shark, or dehydrated world leaders.

I'm pretty sure Begins was trying to dehydrate other people. Or something. Fucking microwaver.