TF Views

Onslaught Six wrote:

Mirage wrote:(except Beast Machines *spits*)

*stabbity*

We dun take too kindly to them thar those that dunlike Beests Mucheens 'round these parts, yaw. Bub.

(No seriously though, BM is awesome, why don't you like it?)

I'm guessing it's the usual reasons: Changed the BW characters too much, disliked the art style, disliked the "Organic Cybertron" concept... C'mon, hate directed at TF Series is so cookie-cutter at this point that we can predict what people will hate about new things *before* they come out. I wanna see someone hate something for a NEW reason!

Still, if he was gonna /spit on BM, he should've at least used the *Puttup* sound effect in an awesome UK-Comics Soundwave homage.

Beast Machines is awesome. At the time it was on, I was one of those complaining fans that was glued to the screen every week regardless. Now I'm a pretty big fan of the series and the toyline. It's a good show, with some good ideas and themes, but it does have its share of flaws. And I'm still not fond of the tossed salad Cybertron at the end.

Well, ditto, ditto, and ditto. Wasn't really trying to open old wounds or anything (FIRRIB, by the way) but I guess my dislike of Beast Machines is more or less akin to most other people's. Props to them for making a "deep" TF show and creating a somewhat coherent mythology, as well as setting the whole thing on Cybertron, with no "squishys" around, a bold move to be sure. But a lot of the themes and the depth they were going for just weren't all that palatable in a TF series. I mean, were we supposed to be HAPPY about the tossed salad Cybertron? Who really wanted that? And don't get me started on the hatchet jobs done on the characters. Especially after finding out what Beast Wars Season 4 would have been (The Predacons in the Nemesis chasing the Maximals in the Ark through space? Yes please!) I end up finding myself thinking of Beast Machines and regretting the road not taken.

But, damn it all, I own almost all of the toys, and even bought the series on DVD when it came out-- which is something I haven't done, and won't do, with the AEC trilogy. So I musn't hate it completely. One of these days, I'll even go back and re-watch it.

Shane, link him to Obsidian's Lament and show him what he's missing.

And then there were exciting new pictsies!

Note the lack of armseat, and the neat way the head flips. Also note the backpack and knees are mistransformed.

Mirage wrote:I mean, were we supposed to be HAPPY about the tossed salad Cybertron? Who really wanted that?

*raises hand*


As for the starting topic of this thread. A TF that comes with a passenger? Sounds great!

Mirage wrote:Well, ditto, ditto, and ditto. Wasn't really trying to open old wounds or anything (FIRRIB, by the way)

It's not really an old wound as I only genuinely came onto the scene a year or two later during RID & Armada, even though I'd seen BW and BM. Moreover, it's a "I think this thing is friggin' awesome and there are definite reasons for its awesomeness that you must be ignoring."

But a lot of the themes and the depth they were going for just weren't all that palatable in a TF series. I mean, were we supposed to be HAPPY about the tossed salad Cybertron? Who really wanted that? And don't get me started on the hatchet jobs done on the characters.

I personally think BM is one of the top three TF shows ever, alongside RID and Animated, but to truly enjoy it, you need to view it in a vacuum--BM had a story to tell with specific character roles and ideas, and in order to carry that out, it had to change some of the things about G1 and Beast Wars. And this, to me, is perfectly fine. Fudge the universe as much as you want, damnit, because it doesn't *have* to fit. I mean, just look at TF continuity *now.* We've got thirteen G1s and half of them don't even remotely work together in any kind of form. I write fanfiction where Prime is a head and Jetfire leads the Autobots on a barren Cybertron with Skyquake on it. You can 'do that kinda stuff now.' These days, if BM came along, nobody would blink twice.

But, damn it all, I own almost all of the toys, and even bought the series on DVD when it came out-- which is something I haven't done, and won't do, with the AEC trilogy. So I musn't hate it completely. One of these days, I'll even go back and re-watch it.

The toys 'is' definitely the coolest part of BM. The Maximals are Different and screwy but have their own charm, and the Vehicons are simply constructed of the finest quality Win and Awesome that 1999 offered.

Onslaught Six wrote:
It's not really an old wound as I only genuinely came onto the scene a year or two later during RID & Armada, even though I'd seen BW and BM. Moreover, it's a "I think this thing is friggin' awesome and there are definite reasons for its awesomeness that you must be ignoring."

Fair enough.

Onslaught Six wrote: I personally think BM is one of the top three TF shows ever, alongside RID and Animated, but to truly enjoy it, you need to view it in a vacuum--BM had a story to tell with specific character roles and ideas, and in order to carry that out, it had to change some of the things about G1 and Beast Wars. And this, to me, is perfectly fine. Fudge the universe as much as you want, damnit, because it doesn't *have* to fit. I mean, just look at TF continuity *now.* We've got thirteen G1s and half of them don't even remotely work together in any kind of form. I write fanfiction where Prime is a head and Jetfire leads the Autobots on a barren Cybertron with Skyquake on it. You can 'do that kinda stuff now.' These days, if BM came along, nobody would blink twice.

Also true. But Beast Machines was by all intent a direct sequel to Beast Wars, and it wasn't unreasonable to expect them to maintain a bit more of the characterization that fine series laid out. You can evolve the characters, but having them do nonsensical one-eighties negates the reason for even revisiting those characters in the first place. It felt like the creators conceived their show first, then shoehorned the Beast Wars mythos into it as a secondary concern.

And as far as nutty fanfics go, that's nothin'. My friend and I have maintained an ongoing storyline for the past thirteen years, wherein Rapido became Prime, had a kid who became Prime, Cybertron blew up, came back, and Primus and Unicron where revealed to have once been humans. Even Furman's head would explode.

Onslaught Six wrote: The toys 'is' definitely the coolest part of BM. The Maximals are Different and screwy but have their own charm, and the Vehicons are simply constructed of the finest quality Win and Awesome that 1999 offered.

*looks at Beast Machines shelf*... Well, 1999 wasn't really a banner year for Transformers. I'll give you Night Slash Cheetor, Tankor, the Tank and Cycle drones, Quickstrike and Snarl as decent figures, most of the rest were only passable, and a few were downright horrible, including, but not limited to: Supreme Cheetor, Nightscream, Buzzsaw, and Geckobot. Megatron, Rattrap and Silverbolt saw easily their worst toy versions ever, and the Beast chariots and deployers, while okay ideas, were ultimately worthless.

Again, I have only myself to blame for buying these things. No one was holding a gun to my head or anything, and I could get rid of them if I want. But next to what had come before, and pretty much all of the lines that have come since, Beast Machines really stands out-- and not in a good way. At the end of the day, though, I'm a live and let-live kind of fan who recognizes that he's in the minority here, so I'll respect your love for Beast Machines.


Where were we? Oh yeah, Bumblebee. Yay, human drivers! Boo, permanent gun-hand. Still an epic win though.

Mirage wrote:Also true. But Beast Machines was by all intent a direct sequel to Beast Wars, and it wasn't unreasonable to expect them to maintain a bit more of the characterization that fine series laid out. You can evolve the characters, but having them do nonsensical one-eighties negates the reason for even revisiting those characters in the first place. It felt like the creators conceived their show first, then shoehorned the Beast Wars mythos into it as a secondary concern.

Yeah, that's the big thing, you need to get past that if you want to enjoy it. Thankfully, I happen to think BW was horribly overrated, so.

*looks at Beast Machines shelf*... Well, 1999 wasn't really a banner year for Transformers. I'll give you Night Slash Cheetor, Tankor, the Tank and Cycle drones, Quickstrike and Snarl as decent figures, most of the rest were only passable, and a few were downright horrible, including, but not limited to: Supreme Cheetor, Nightscream, Buzzsaw, and Geckobot. Megatron, Rattrap and Silverbolt saw easily their worst toy versions ever, and the Beast chariots and deployers, while okay ideas, were ultimately worthless.

Buzzsaw is awesome! And all the Vehicons. Both Jetstorms are made of win.

Onslaught Six wrote:

Mirage wrote:Also true. But Beast Machines was by all intent a direct sequel to Beast Wars, and it wasn't unreasonable to expect them to maintain a bit more of the characterization that fine series laid out. You can evolve the characters, but having them do nonsensical one-eighties negates the reason for even revisiting those characters in the first place. It felt like the creators conceived their show first, then shoehorned the Beast Wars mythos into it as a secondary concern.

Yeah, that's the big thing, you need to get past that if you want to enjoy it. Thankfully, I happen to think BW was horribly overrated, so.

Personally, I never had any problems excepting any changes in the characters. I loved the show right from the get-go.

Onslaught Six wrote:Buzzsaw is awesome!

You bet he is! Buzzsaw is one of my all time favorite figures. Back when I still outright played with my TFs, rather than just fiddle with them like I do now, things often ended up in a duel between Buzzsaw and Mirage.

Rampage01 wrote:You bet he is! Buzzsaw is one of my all time favorite figures. Back when I still outright played with my TFs, rather than just fiddle with them like I do now, things often ended up in a duel between Buzzsaw and Mirage.

Well, I'll bet Mirage won. Accidentally left him out of my favorite figures-- I was always hoping for a G1 repaint, but no such luck. Buzzsaw, I guess my main problem was the giant spring-for-an-arm. Never could get past that. But I still would have bought a Waspinator repaint.