TF Views

Almighty Unicron wrote:Is there gonna be another movie?

Yes. The panel opened up that it is definitely happening and will signal a return to all major retailers for the third movie.

And, the movie toys will not sell as well as expected, despite the last two lines not doing well. And, then, retailers will give up on the line.....until the next movie.

Onslaught Six wrote:

JT wrote:Aside from the oddity of those HISS releases, including the Joe one (da fuq?)

I think the "storyline" for this pack of stuff is that Joe and Cobra are stealing vehicles from each other. The green HISS's acronym is CHIMERA and I don't remember what it stands for, but I'm fairly sure it blatantly references the fact that it's stolen Cobra tech.

I figured by that name that was the idea, but it's just lazy writing to cover up a weak business premise.

I don't mind the Snowcat being around again, although I wish it was just in traditional colours since I'm trying to get my hands on one right now! But you're completely right on all fronts here.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Snowcat, but it's just... stop it Hasbro, stop it. There are other vehicles. Hell, the Snow Wolf.... oh shit, they just used that one again. Well, figure it the fuck out, because that mold is getting overexposed and these colors ain't helping.

$60 for four figures and two mid-sized vehicles is not that bad. Taking into account that an individual 4" figure at Joe's complexity level costs $8-10 now across the board, it makes sense. And the AWE Striker has some new stuff on it!

Minus the absence of significant new tooling costs.

The original/extended cut that came out on the Blu-ray was a lot better, had a few more connective things that really worked and made the characters feel more like characters. (That whole scene where Roadblock is talking about how he's not gonna bury anyone else? Not in the theatrical cut. Only there. What the fuck? It was in every single trailer and commercial.)

They are moving forward with Joe 3, which will again have a different writer and director (unfortunate, since I thought Chu could have really grown into his role if they gave him another film to do it in, and if he directed some more action flicks inbetween) so maybe the third time is the charm. I just hope they don't full on reboot the cast for a third time though (although I could probably deal without Bruce Willis phoning in a paycheck role and being weirdly sexist. At least the characters in the movie acknowledged that he was being shitty.)

Yeah, Chu got it, and it's a shame they didn't give him another shot. I agree with ya on Bruce Willis, that casting sucked.

Renegades was actually awesome once you got past its horrific art style. Unfortunately, I think a lot of the people involved are kind of "too close" to the brand at this point to really take the departure that it would need, if that makes any sense. (I know that I would start by aging up Duke to be, well, the age he would be if he was in his 20s in 1984, so, nearing his 60s at this point, and make him the desk commander for Joe as a team.)

The premise wasn't toyetic and the show wasn't engaging the kid audience in tone I think.

Remember--the club is deciding to make these, not Hasbro. The Joe club is actually thriving right now, because they produce literally half the Joe product per year, and have since 2012. At this point, it's actually weirder to not own at least one of the club exclusives than it is to have them. (I have two, and I'm a cheap fucker!)

I forgot the club is separate. How sad that Hasbro said yeah, it means they had no hope of delivering those characters themselves.

Dom wrote:Not sure that the movie licensing would allow for TF and Joe to meet on screen.

Both produced by Paramount, both owned by Hasbro, both produced by Di Bonaventura.

JediTricks wrote:I figured by that name that was the idea, but it's just lazy writing to cover up a weak business premise.

Last year the SDCC exclusive was just one of the vehicle sets in a different deco too, so I think that's the plan for this kind of stopgap line.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Snowcat, but it's just... stop it Hasbro, stop it. There are other vehicles. Hell, the Snow Wolf.... oh shit, they just used that one again. Well, figure it the fuck out, because that mold is getting overexposed and these colors ain't helping.

People keep pulling this out but the Snowcat has only been released (with this one) 5 times at retail in the history of the line; the last time was in I think 2011 or so, but before that it had only been issued in the VvV line or thereabouts. Meanwhile, I think we literally got at least one new Skystriker EVERY YEAR since they got the mould out and retooled it for 25th, AND we're getting another TWO this year, but apparently nobody bitches about THAT. (If you're having trouble remembering, the Skystriker was used for both the Jetfire and Starscream SDCC releases.)

Minus the absence of significant new tooling costs.

Chuckles has a new head and the AWE Striker has some significant new tooling on it. The HISS also has a new turret piece, and actually it has a new grill piece that nobody has mentioned at all on any of the sites. It's not much, but when you consider the new tooling budget for a line like this is probably next to nothing, it's pretty cool.

Yeah, Chu got it, and it's a shame they didn't give him another shot. I agree with ya on Bruce Willis, that casting sucked.

I mean, Chu did go off to work on the Jem movie, which he might actually be better suited to in the first place.

Bruce is an odd duck in this era. If you look at his IMDB, the dude is in TONS of shit, and most of it looks like crap. I think he takes a LOT of roles just for the paycheck. The problem is that every so often, he gets put into a movie that's actually legitimately good, and knocks it out of the fucking park and connects on every level. Rian Johnson (Looper writer/director) was on one of Kevin Smith's podcasts a while back and they discussed Bruce and how they had completely opposite experiences as directors. Basically Bruce was completely onboard with Looper from day one and never gave less than 110%, while on the Cop Out set he was belligerent, unwilling to listen to direction, and just a pain in the ass to be around...and it shows in the finished product. Not that I think a glowing performance from Bruce would have "saved" Cop Out or whatever, but it's like, you go watch that movie and you can just tell he doesn't give a fuck about it. It's the same thing with his Retaliation appearance, and I think it's because the material he's presented with isn't challenging for him as an actor. Looper is fucking challenging and interesting for any actor, but especially one with Bruce's pedigree AND with the kind of stuff he's usually cast in. Decent budget single-A Paramount blockbuster based on a toyline? Bruce can do that role in his sleep. Time traveling child murderer trying to prevent the future death of his wife? That takes a little more work and is more interesting, and it shows onscreen.
Which doesn't let Bruce off the hook, in any way. All it does is actually hurt his reputation for the more discerning movie-goer who is going to eventually see that if you walk into a Bruce Willis movie, you have a 50-50 shot of it being dog shit.

I forgot the club is separate. How sad that Hasbro said yeah, it means they had no hope of delivering those characters themselves.

Not right now, no, but they might later on. Frankly, most of what the club makes are updates to barely-named 1988 characters that most people don't give a shit about. You think Transformers fans are anal as hell about "trying to complete the Ark crew?" These people literally want every toy from ARAH redone in modern style. They WANT it!

Both produced by Paramount, both owned by Hasbro, both produced by Di Bonaventura.

Who, when asked about a Joe/TF crossover movie, basically said that Marvel must be running out of ideas if they think crossing over all their movies is a good plan. What a fucking idiot.

How can somebody with a name as (frankly) awesome as "Di Bonaventura" be such an idiot? Seriously. I want to like everything the guy does because of the name. "De Bonaventura" is just so much fun to say. And, he makes such crappy movies.....

Not right now, no, but they might later on. Frankly, most of what the club makes are updates to barely-named 1988 characters that most people don't give a shit about. You think Transformers fans are anal as hell about "trying to complete the Ark crew?" These people literally want every toy from ARAH redone in modern style. They WANT it!

In theory, I can understand this. Everybody has a favourite character. And, if there is a new aesthetic, they want that character in the new aesthetic. And, (as Prowl often points out), Hasbro focuses on a dozen or so characters and rarely does other characters. The only way to get new iterations of many post-86 characters is likely to be the fan club.

(Similarly, I like getting new iterations of Cobra troops, as they tend to look better.)


The more I think about it, the more I like the Basilisk/FOE Striker set. Assuming that Joe and Cobra have been at war for years, it makes sense for surplus equipment to be sold off on the open market. (In fact, that logic was used to reconcile MARS selling Cobra upgraded Joe hardware.) And, the FOE would be an upgrade of an existing vehicle. Of course, the passage of time that would require does not explain why it is still largely the same guys fighting the same war.

The Basilisk is a nice, almost 40K style, half-track. (If I ever get a job writing file cards, I am going to write at least of few of them in 40K style.)

Dominic wrote:In theory, I can understand this. Everybody has a favourite character. And, if there is a new aesthetic, they want that character in the new aesthetic. And, (as Prowl often points out), Hasbro focuses on a dozen or so characters and rarely does other characters. The only way to get new iterations of many post-86 characters is likely to be the fan club.

The problem is that most of the post-86 characters are hardly memorable. Sure, everyone has their favourite character, and throwing a bone to fans every so often is expected. But there are literally people who saw the reveal of the 50th line this year and complained that it wasn't just 25th Anniversary Part Deux; that Hasbro isn't simply releasing every character released on this year 30 years ago in this particular line. (I guess that would be 1985. Whatever. 32 years, then.)

I mean, we as a TF fandom generally have a pretty good understanding of how this brand works. Even in the best of times, we're not ones who are going to expect a brand new toy of Brainstorm, and the only reason he's getting such a cool new toy is because he has significant comics presence. If you look at everyone's recent wishlists of characters they should make, it's almost entirely people who have featured in the comics in the last three years--Chromedome, Rewind, Overlord, Whirl, etc. (I know we have a new Whirl now, but he was in there with that group before we got him.) Even characters who people want new toys of who've already gotten the Generations go-around are typically comic characters: Prowl, Ratchet, Rodimus, Dom's unquenchable thirst for more Wheeljack, and so on.

Some GI Joe fans...don't operate that way. They want new toys of random-ass nobody characters that literally no one could possibly care about, for the simple fact of "they existed when I was a kid." Here's YoJoe's page of 87 characters, just as an example:
http://www.yojoe.com/action/87/

Of those characters, a handful have got releases in some form in the first few years of the 25th era, and they're all obvious picks: Armoured Cobra Commander (iconic look, major comic arc featured a guy impersonating CC in this suit, etc.), Falcon (was in the movie), Tunnel Rat (major comic presence and was a focal character in the 2002 relaunch & Sigma 6), and Outback (fuck it, you got me). The rest? The rest are guys like fucking Sneak Peek and Raptor and Psyche-Out. Fast Draw? Crystal Ball? Backstop? Who cares about these characters? They aren't interesting. They look boring. They have no important media, no major cartoon appearances, no notable comic roles...Who wants these characters? Why? Because they were there? Move on. Get some new dudes in there.

Some GI Joe fans...don't operate that way. They want new toys of random-ass nobody characters that literally no one could possibly care about, for the simple fact of "they existed when I was a kid." Here's YoJoe's page of 87 characters, just as an example

Not quite. Many Joe fans like characters for what those characters are supposed to be.

For example, I like Snake Eyes, Storm Shadow, Zartan and the other "Greek Tragedy with Ninjas" characters for their importance to the comics. But, guess why I like Mutt and Junkyard? Similarly, until Hasbro screwed up on the distribution of the Doc mail-away figures, I wanted to get every Joe from MA.

Other fans like characters that have some specific function (pilot, mountain trooper, flame-thrower). Look at the file cards. The character's job is often more prominent than their name. A decade or so back, I was a member of a forum called "AlleyViperHood" because the guy who founded it really liked Alley Vipers.

e rest are guys like fucking Sneak Peek and Raptor and Psyche-Out. Fast Draw? Crystal Ball? Backstop? Who cares about these characters? They aren't interesting. They look boring. They have no important media, no major cartoon appearances, no notable comic roles...Who wants these characters? Why? Because they were there? Move on. Get some new dudes in there.

Sneak Peek has some cachet. He is dead. He was raised at least once because of a mistake (by Hama no less). Hey, there are weirder standards to get a character made as a toy.

Crystal Ball was one of the only characters from the original line (pre-'92) that did not have a Hama-written file card. Steven King wrote the profile. For years, Crystal Ball's *only* context (besides the packaging) was the back of a trading card that listed him as "probably dead". (I forget the exact phrasing. But, hey.) And, he has shown up prominently in the current IDW comics.

Raptor was a big deal in the old comics. If you are going to say that Cobra Commander wearing the armor is worth a new toy, then Raptor is also worth a new toy. (He was Fred's co-conspirator for years.)


Fastdraw and some of the others, yeah. They did nothing.

Onslaught Six wrote:People keep pulling this out but the Snowcat has only been released (with this one) 5 times at retail in the history of the line; the last time was in I think 2011 or so, but before that it had only been issued in the VvV line or thereabouts. Meanwhile, I think we literally got at least one new Skystriker EVERY YEAR since they got the mould out and retooled it for 25th, AND we're getting another TWO this year, but apparently nobody bitches about THAT. (If you're having trouble remembering, the Skystriker was used for both the Jetfire and Starscream SDCC releases.)

Seems like a lot more than 5. I have the original and Spy Troops version I think. The Skystriker at least had a huge demand for a while... then it got overplayed.

Who, when asked about a Joe/TF crossover movie, basically said that Marvel must be running out of ideas if they think crossing over all their movies is a good plan. What a fucking idiot.

TF is a goldmine, GI Joe is a tin mine, why would they want to taint TF with Joe? That's the type of business thinking that gave us Robocop and Total Recall remakes.

I liked the new Robocop!

Is "GI Joe" really a tin mine though? Or, is it just poorly managed? (Neither of those possibilities rules out the other.)

Endless, cross-faction, vehicle recolours that use tooling from 3 decades ago is a choice made by the designers. And, yes, it is a generally dumb premise in story terms. (It sort of worked for Python Patrol. But, that was the exception.)

But, if SW can chug along, why not Joe? What is the problem keeping it from taking root in the market?