Botcon 2013,Newer TF toys pics reveals,discussion thread.

[Sparky Prime]

The new Generations Beast Wars figures are a nice surprise. Rhinox looks amazing. Great update for the character, no longer a shellformer and so much more show accurate than the original deluxe figure was. And it's nice that it'll be a Voyager class, he needed to be a bit bigger than a deluxe. Waspinator... I like the robot mode, but the beast mode looks a little off to me because it sort of looks like a hunchback wasp. Still, overall it looks like a nice update as well.

Prime Megatron as TFCC exclusive Protoform X... I think the robot mode surprisingly works for the character, although I always envisioned a 'pre-beast' version of Rampage as a tank because of his transmetal tank mode, not something that could fly. Not really feeling Arcee as Transmutate, but it is a cool looking paint job.

Legends Cosmos and Swerve looks great. Some other pretty nice looking figures based on the IDW designs as well.

[Shockwave]

Did we really need a separate thread for this? We could just as easily put our thoughts/opinions in the actual Botcon 2013 thread (which uhh... we were kind of doing anyway making this thread redundant).

Anyway, I like the Shockwave set, I like the Generations figures, but I'm vexed as to why there's a new legends class Cosmos when we've already had one in that scale (back when it was Universe 2.0). Is this just a reissue of that or is it possibly deluxe and not legends?

[BWprowl]

1- 2013/2014 Beast Hunters toys news: I LOVE & WILL BE BUYING THE UP SIZED LEGION SIZED TERRORCONS THAT ARE NOW DELUXE SIZED. Hopefully Hasbro releases all Five,So buyers can form a huge BH Abonimus. Releasing just 2 deluxe sized Terrorcons would be cruel/odd/weird/un-wise. I noticed the Deluxe Terrorcons twinstrike & Windrazor now have REVERSE combiner ports. They have the holes instead of the pegs. It's possible Hasbro Redesigned the Deluxe Hun-gurr to give it more poseabilty,Perhaps the redesign gave Hungurr reverse combiner ports where he now has pegs instead of holes ports.

Those aren't 'reverse' Combiner ports, they just neutered off the Combiner pegs. They aren't releasing all the Terrorcons in upscaled-Deluxe size, and they will not be able to combine. Hell, if you look at Windrazor, you can see that they actually removed articulation from him!

1a- I like the Newer BH Voyager for Predaking,love the translucent orange wings. don't care about the newer BH voyager Optimus. i'm 50/50 on Platinum Ultra Magnus. I'm not interested in anything else from the BH toy line.

You know that these, including the Predaking you apparently like, are also Cyberverse/Legends upscales, right?

Did we really need a separate thread for this? We could just as easily put our thoughts/opinions in the actual Botcon 2013 thread (which uhh... we were kind of doing anyway making this thread redundant).

I thought that thread was more for discussing the Botcon exclusives themselves, while this one is more dedicated to dissecting the new toy reveals (which is tricky in and of itself, given that they're 50/50 between Prime and Generations, meaning there's a choice as to which forum subheading they go under). Anyway, this one here is fine.

Anyway, can I just...? The revelation of this upscaled Legends nonsense has kind of gotten to me. I've been one of Hasbro's most vocal supporters, even through these more...trying times of the franchise. And then they go and pull this shit. New molds or remolds or even just repaints to finish out the line? Naw, we'll just upscale Legends to massively simplified models that have no business being sold at the Deluxe MSRP and sell them that way! But at least we might get a huge, cool, Abominus out of the deal, right? Lol, nope, we're removing the Combiner functionality, just because! And some of the articulation! Goddamn, they couldn't even be assed to fill in the hollow areas on Twinstrike's necks when they did this shit! Moving Commander-class guys up to Voyagers is even more ridiculous. They want $22 for that shit? Really?

I mean, this is actually something knockoff companies do. This is literally the business practice of knockoff companies. Except knockoff companies don't charge you *full price* for the damn things, just $4 at Big Lots. $12 for a blown-up Legends that can't combine and has less joints? Fuck that, and fuck you too, Hasbro. I've gotten progressively madder as I've had to type all this out; I'm so mad now I can't see straight.

Toys legitimately regressing? Cartoon still a steaming pile of crap? Comics either boring, or bad, or both? There has never been a better time for me to ease off of Transformers.

[Shockwave]

I have to agree, with a few lackluster exceptions, Hasbro has made it really easy for me to be broke the last couple years.

[JediTricks]

Here's my photo coverage, I partnered with ActionFigs.com on this, since I occasionally report over there as well:

http://www.tfviews.com/news/main/1719

Also, if you didn't see it yesterday when it was going up live, here's TFv's live write-up of the Hasbro panel:

http://www.tfviews.com/news/main/1687

That was from yesterday.

Hasbro, in their infinite realm for surprises, put out the SDCC exclusives today, but since I made the long drive home last night and didn't know this was coming, I didn't get shots of those 3 sets.

[JediTricks]

What is up with these "simplified" designs? I don't get the long term strategy they're going for here. Same price, but bigger and yet shittier? I dunno, I can't fathom if I'd want that as a kid. I, personally, am sick of when hasbro starts to bloat a line with multiple iterations of the same character that look similar- if you're going to put out multiple versions of a character's toy at least have it be a new mold (like the difference between RID and BH optimus prime, or like when Primal became a Transmetal).

They presented it as "returning to the fun", it was a very good spin strategy, but what I think is really going on is that they ran out of product designs for the end of the year, with Prime ending and the new movie coming out, there was a gap, perhaps a canceled line in the middle, and they just upsized some Cyberverse figures to fill that gap.

I talked to a kid while I was shooting those new items, he was spot on in the age group, like 9 or 10 I think, and he was very into the brand, immediately recognized they were upsized Legion figures, but also felt interested in getting them anyway.

The Voyager Optimus and Predaking from the Cyb Commanders are REALLY big though, there's no denying that they're substantial in size.

1- 2013/2014 Beast Hunters toys news: I LOVE & WILL BE BUYING THE UP SIZED LEGION SIZED TERRORCONS THAT ARE NOW DELUXE SIZED. Hopefully Hasbro releases all Five,So buyers can form a huge BH Abonimus. Releasing just 2 deluxe sized Terrorcons would be cruel/odd/weird/un-wise. I noticed the Deluxe Terrorcons twinstrike & Windrazor now have REVERSE combiner ports. They have the holes instead of the pegs. It's possible Hasbro Redesigned the Deluxe Hun-gurr to give it more poseabilty,Perhaps the redesign gave Hungurr reverse combiner ports where he now has pegs instead of holes ports.

Bad news for you, they confirmed at the panel that they will not be combining, the characters' texts on the slides bolstered that, one refuses and the other is a turncoat.

I like the Newer BH Voyager for Predaking,love the translucent orange wings.

Of all the upsized figures, that one got the most attention when they put it in the booth, but oddly it was more fans than kids who were into it.

Double Dealer seems like a odd repaint choice,I would have done Flywheels or Overlord using this Blitzwing mold.

Yeah, I didn't love the reveal of Doubledealer, that was a really odd moment, they played up the reveal on these very slowly and then said the name on him and the room went NUTS, then they revealed the slide of the Blitzwing repaint and the room quieted quickly to a WTF hush.

The terrorcon deluxes don't have their combiner pegs. They can't combine into a big abominus. That would literally be the only reason to bite on these, and hasbro shot themselves in the foot.

Super true.

The new Generations Beast Wars figures are a nice surprise. Rhinox looks amazing. Great update for the character, no longer a shellformer and so much more show accurate than the original deluxe figure was. And it's nice that it'll be a Voyager class, he needed to be a bit bigger than a deluxe. Waspinator... I like the robot mode, but the beast mode looks a little off to me because it sort of looks like a hunchback wasp. Still, overall it looks like a nice update as well.

Yeah, if I had more time and patience I would have spent more time shooting him. I'd have had to sit crosslegged on the floor to do so though, because for some reason all the Legends and Legion figures were on a shelf 6' off the ground and all the bigger stuff was lower down, the biggest stuff being on the bottom with lots of shadows over them and underlit flooring to make sure they were hard to see.

Rhinox was great in person. Waspi was very good in beast mode in person, robot mode had broken I think and been glued together with a big ball of wax that added a huge gap in his chest, but it looked good overall, I'm buying.

Not really feeling Arcee as Transmutate, but it is a cool looking paint job.

Arcee is lanky, that was the only connection I could imagine there. It works for me at first blush and then doesn't upon study.

Legends Cosmos and Swerve looks great. Some other pretty nice looking figures based on the IDW designs as well.

Yeah, they blew my mind with those figures, they look tremendous and got HUGE applause at the panel.

Did we really need a separate thread for this? We could just as easily put our thoughts/opinions in the actual Botcon 2013 thread (which uhh... we were kind of doing anyway making this thread redundant).

I see what you mean, but... eh, the other thread was talking about the Timelines stuff originally, it isn't outrageous to keep this out of that since this is more mainline discussion.

Anyway, I like the Shockwave set, I like the Generations figures, but I'm vexed as to why there's a new legends class Cosmos when we've already had one in that scale (back when it was Universe 2.0). Is this just a reissue of that or is it possibly deluxe and not legends?

Which Shockwave set? Cosmos Legends 2013 is way different from the tiny $5 2009 Legends figure, this is more like a CYB Commander figure, twice as articulated, more detailed and full.

Anyway, can I just...? The revelation of this upscaled Legends nonsense has kind of gotten to me. I've been one of Hasbro's most vocal supporters, even through these more...trying times of the franchise. And then they go and pull this shit. New molds or remolds or even just repaints to finish out the line? Naw, we'll just upscale Legends to massively simplified models that have no business being sold at the Deluxe MSRP and sell them that way! But at least we might get a huge, cool, Abominus out of the deal, right? Lol, nope, we're removing the Combiner functionality, just because! And some of the articulation! Goddamn, they couldn't even be assed to fill in the hollow areas on Twinstrike's necks when they did this shit! Moving Commander-class guys up to Voyagers is even more ridiculous. They want $22 for that shit? Really?

I mean, this is actually something knockoff companies do. This is literally the business practice of knockoff companies. Except knockoff companies don't charge you *full price* for the damn things, just $4 at Big Lots. $12 for a blown-up Legends that can't combine and has less joints? Fuck that, and fuck you too, Hasbro. I've gotten progressively madder as I've had to type all this out; I'm so mad now I can't see straight.

The panel room audience was nearly buying Hasbro's "more focus on fun" argument when they revealed what the figures were, so it's clear that there is a mindset for that which people are willing to agree with. I don't like them, but for $13 a pop apparently some people think kids will love them, not just Hasbro, but regular TF fans. BTW, some TF fans in the audience had babies and little, little kids, very surprising age range on that.

As for the commanders up to Voyagers, when you see how big they are you'll understand why $22 is justified. Tons of light praise came through the booth when they put out that voyager Predaking, that thing is nearly as big as the $50 ultimate figure. Also, this isn't stereolithography, tooling isn't being traced, there are changes to accommodate things, so they're probably going back to the CAD file work and spitting that out at a larger scale. My concern is that these will sell and the brand will permanently shift focus to less parts, less design, less need for paint and assembly people - they said that's not the case, but that's "now" thinking.

These are way different from those knockoffs, those are simply stereolithography or similar techniques which trace the original part or mold in a larger size physically. Hasbro is almost surely going with the actual CAD designs and reworking them to work as new tools.

Comics either boring, or bad, or both?

I'm really liking the comics right now, sorry to hear you aren't.

[Tigermegatron]

Those aren't 'reverse' Combiner ports, they just neutered off the Combiner pegs. They aren't releasing all the Terrorcons in upscaled-Deluxe size, and they will not be able to combine. Hell, if you look at Windrazor, you can see that they actually removed articulation from him!"

Yeah,I noticed some of the pegs from the legends terrorcons were either cut off,filled in or made round hollow holes. I also noticed last night that windrazor's ball jointed elbows were removed for the deluxe upsized version. I AGREE,Hasbro missed the mark on this one,Most would have liked upsized deluxes that had combiners ports,I AGREE THESE THINGS ARE JUST A HUGE DISSAPOINTMENT. to remove the combiner pegs & articulation MADE NO SENSE AS IT COST MONEY TO REMOLD THIS STUFF.

including the Predaking you apparently like, are also Cyberverse/Legends upscales, right? )

ONLY the 2014 BH Voyager Optimus is a upsized Commander toy. THE BH 2014 VOYAGER Predaking is a BRAND NEW MOLD. Their is far too many moving parts,to much poseabilty & high sculpt for it to be a commander sized toy.
http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... ges/27733/
http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/prod ... ode=retail

I thought that thread was more for discussing the Botcon exclusives themselves, while this one is more dedicated to dissecting the new toy reveals (which is tricky in and of itself, given that they're 50/50 between Prime and Generations, meaning there's a choice as to which forum subheading they go under).

Yes,This was pretty much the reasoning behind creating this newer thread. the other thread was for discussing the "time lines TFCC stuff. this one here is to discuss the Hasbro Newer TF toy reveals from Botcon 2013.

[BWprowl]

The Voyager Optimus and Predaking from the Cyb Commanders are REALLY big though, there's no denying that they're substantial in size.

Yeah, and they've got all the hollow parts, empty areas, and low functionality of the Cyberverse designs they're based on. Size can't be the only selling point of a toy, and $22 for a big hollow wad of plastic crap is still too much, even if it's big.

Yeah, I didn't love the reveal of Doubledealer, that was a really odd moment, they played up the reveal on these very slowly and then said the name on him and the room went NUTS, then they revealed the slide of the Blitzwing repaint and the room quieted quickly to a WTF hush.

I actually like the look of Doubledealer. Nice colors, and I'm a complete sucker for nose art. I also think it's a better use of the mold than the rumored Overlord would have been.

The new Generations Beast Wars figures are a nice surprise. Rhinox looks amazing. Great update for the character, no longer a shellformer and so much more show accurate than the original deluxe figure was. And it's nice that it'll be a Voyager class, he needed to be a bit bigger than a deluxe. Waspinator... I like the robot mode, but the beast mode looks a little off to me because it sort of looks like a hunchback wasp. Still, overall it looks like a nice update as well.

I'm torn on Waspinator. The robot mode looks pretty darn good, but there's a whole bunch about the beast mode that's throwing me off already. The stupid big gimmick wing-pack, the robot head visible within it, the piles of leg-kibble underneath it, argh.

Not really feeling Arcee as Transmutate, but it is a cool looking paint job.

Arcee is lanky, that was the only connection I could imagine there. It works for me at first blush and then doesn't upon study.

Both G1 Arcee and Transmutate were voiced by Susan Blu, so that might be what they're going for, if anything.

Which Shockwave set?

He means the SDCC set, with the lab and the little clear Predaking.

My concern is that these will sell and the brand will permanently shift focus to less parts, less design, less need for paint and assembly people - they said that's not the case, but that's "now" thinking.

My concern too. Hasbro's already going that direction with their other lines like Iron Man and Spider-Man, with Star Wars going back to POTF-style simplified, cut articulation later as well. This upscaling bullshit fits right in as the TF turn towards that philosophy. And I don't like it one bit.

These are way different from those knockoffs, those are simply stereolithography or similar techniques which trace the original part or mold in a larger size physically. Hasbro is almost surely going with the actual CAD designs and reworking them to work as new tools.

But they're leaving in all the shitty hollow areas, and taking out articulation, and...argh argh argh. If this was really a case where they just needed 'filler' or whatever, why not just repaint/remold toys that already existed at the needed size-classes? It would at least look a lot better, less disingenuous than this bullcrap. The main reason I was defensive of Hasbro before is it still felt like they were TRYING until now. After this...they've clearly stopped giving a shit, so I have too.

I'm really liking the comics right now, sorry to hear you aren't.

MTMTE is alright, but very uneven and can be extremely frustrating to read at times. RID I dropped a few issues ago because Barber is a gibbering hack who couldn't follow through on his own story concepts or write a decent 'plot twist' to save his life, and ReG1, while the most 'even' of the books, can be very plodding and bland, and is a bit too backwards-looking for my tastes. The only other stuff on the racks is TFPrime crap.

[Tigermegatron]

Anyway, can I just...? The revelation of this upscaled Legends nonsense has kind of gotten to me. I've been one of Hasbro's most vocal supporters, even through these more...trying times of the franchise. And then they go and pull this shit. New molds or remolds or even just repaints to finish out the line? Naw, we'll just upscale Legends to massively simplified models that have no business being sold at the Deluxe MSRP and sell them that way! But at least we might get a huge, cool, Abominus out of the deal, right? Lol, nope, we're removing the Combiner functionality, just because! And some of the articulation! Goddamn, they couldn't even be assed to fill in the hollow areas on Twinstrike's necks when they did this shit! Moving Commander-class guys up to Voyagers is even more ridiculous. They want $22 for that shit? Really?

I mean, this is actually something knockoff companies do. This is literally the business practice of knockoff companies. Except knockoff companies don't charge you *full price* for the damn things, just $4 at Big Lots. $12 for a blown-up Legends that can't combine and has less joints? Fuck that, and fuck you too, Hasbro. I've gotten progressively madder as I've had to type all this out; I'm so mad now I can't see straight.

If Hasbro/Takara wonders why they are losing profits from these 3rd party NOT-TF companies & KO companies----> The reasons you & others listed are the REASONS WHY.

To make the upsized legends more simplified & remove the combiner pegs NOT ONLY MADE NO SENSE,IT'S IN THE LEVEL OF ABSURDITY. As it cost money to remold the toys to remove the stuff. It would have been cheaper to just leave all the suff in & not remold anything.

I am for upsized or down sized TF Molds,BUT THEY NEED TO BE DONE RIGHT. needless to say,Hasbro/Takara often does this incorrect.
Examples: Super link Voyager Megatron,Hasbro upsized the leader version was misproportioned short fat arms & legs. Hasbro/Takara Upsized the 2005 Cybertron Voyager Starscream mold incorrectly as they made the toy too fat resulting in short fat stubby arms,they also simplified the mold by removing a piece-transformation step. THIS LATEST EXAMPLE OF THE BH UPSIZED LEGENDS IS JUST ANOTHER FAILURE.

IF KO & 3RD party companies can easily upsize or downsize TF toys while keeping all the sculpt/mold dimensions,Proportions & gimmicks,THEN THIS SHOULD be easier or same for Hasbro/Takara to accomplish. Sadly it seems the Hasbro/Takara teams can't get this upsize or downsize toy mold forumla correctly,As is the evidence.

[Tigermegatron]

They presented it as "returning to the fun", it was a very good spin strategy, but what I think is really going on is that they ran out of product designs for the end of the year, with Prime ending and the new movie coming out, there was a gap, perhaps a canceled line in the middle, and they just upsized some Cyberverse figures to fill that gap.

These upsized Legends & Commanders that become Deluxes or Voyagers REMIND ME OF THE MOVIE-VERSE "FAST ACTION BATTLERS".
I doubt Hasbro will go this EXTREME route by making all the newer TF toy lines figures SUPER simplified like this.

I do 50/50 agree with Hasbro/Takara's reasoning,that the Transformations in the Movie-verse were so overly Complicated,That this needs to take a few steps down & make the transformations slightly less complex. I DON'T WANT TO SEE SUPER SIMPLIFIED TRANSFORMATIONS NOR SIMPIFIED SCULPTS---> I'd say finding a good balance is key. Armada,Energon,Cybertron & Animated are perfect examples of the way things needs to return to as far as sculpt & transformations.

Jedi,I agree with your reasoning,That the upsized BH toys were done as gap-filler to fill the store shelves until TF4 toys arrived.

If Hasbro wants Gap-filler,Then they should import the Takara GO newer figures & repaints/retools. Similar to what they did in 2001 when BM ended & Armada needed more toy development time to get created. Even if their is only 3 or 5 or 12 TF GO DVD episodes,Hasbro can release them at a key time & space them out enough to make them last as long as possible---> Points to the clever spacing out of the last BH Episodes.