Is a Generations Astrotrain Voyager toy needed? I think so..

[Onslaught Six]

I dunno. For Prime, Optimus was only available as Cyberverse, Voyager, and a Weaponizer, if I'm not wrong.

Either way, something is making Hasbro keep doing them, and it doesn't seem like it'll be stopping anytime soon unless the brand functionally changes. I know most of us are from an older time in Transformers, where they were mostly selling us on a huge and populated universe--Optimus Prime didn't need multiple toys in multiple size classes because he was only slightly more important than Hot Shot or Scavenger or Jetfire. Now the brand has shifted, and it's more important (to them) to sell us on specific characters than it is to sell us on the brand itself. I think part of that is because, at least from 1996 to 2006, Transformers was largely a niche brand. It still sold exceptionally well, but it wasn't very known outside of toy circles. It wasn't as prominent in popular culture. Now, after the movie, everyone in America knows what Transformers are, and everybody knows who Optimus Prime and Bumblebee and Megatron are. And for a lot of those people--many of whom are mothers and fathers--all they *know* of the franchise is the movies and, maybe, Prime. Sometimes, it doesn't matter what a kid wants, but what an adult is willing to purchase.

If an uneducated (on the brand) father walks into Wal-Mart and sees Transformer toys, and sees a bunch of characters we all know and love--Wheeljack, Prowl, Galvatron, Astrotrain, Springer--but he doesn't recognize from the movies or the TV show, he could very well assume these are unimportant characters and decide to go look at them Bakugan thingers for Timmy instead. (Is Bakugan still popular? I don't even know anymore.) If he goes and grabs an Optimus Prime, or a Bumblebee, then that's a sale Hasbro has made in the Deluxe (or Voyager, or Cyberverse) price point that they otherwise wouldn't have made.

Also, retailers basically have Hasbro by the balls. If Hasbro tried to launch a new toyline with only one super-expensive Optimus Prime in it, in 2013, then Wal-Mart would probably refuse to stock Voyagers until there was an Optimus Prime in the assortment. This kind of thing has happened before. (The 2009 Cybertron Movie repaints were going to be in Universe 2.0 packaging and be G1 updates, until Wal-Mart decided they wanted them in Movie packaging because "movie toys sell better.")

[Tigermegatron]

I dunno. For Prime, Optimus was only available as Cyberverse, Voyager, and a Weaponizer, if I'm not wrong.

For the 2012 TF Prime toy line Optimus Prime was available in the following toy sizes: Single Bot Shots,Play sets bot shots with megatron & launching trailers gimmicks,Commander,Cyber-Verse huge Optimus Maximus exo-suit,FE Voyager,Rid Voyager,Weaponizers Optimus Prime. This is 7 new molds toys that optimus got in one TF Prime toy line,not counting repaints.

In 2012 Optimus Prime also received a brand new MP TF Hasbro TRU toy. FOC Deluxe sized Optimus Prime.

I don't need a entire box/shelf of newer Optimus Prime toys each year. I'd much rather have other 1980's TF characters that never got a mold or one newer awful mold get a newer toy like a Voyager sized Generations 2013 Astrotrain,Leader sized Overlord,Voyager sized G-1 styled Galvatron. the other 4 G-1 Dinobots get 4 new mold TFP/BH/Generations 2013 deluxe toys. MP-10 G-1 Galvatron instead of it being MP-10 Convoy,etc....

[Shockwave]

The problem Deathy, is that you're calling for a remold of one specific character from one specific subline and trying to compare it to everything in existence ever, which is bullshit to begin with. If you're going to be that specific, you can only compare what you're calling for to other comparable releases, ie: From the same subline. Also, you seem to be implying that if Hasbro takes one toy spot away from any one of their lines that they will just substitute it somewhere else. They won't. The business model doesn't work that way. If Hasbro decides not to do Optimus Prime in voyager for Prime, that doesn't open a spot up for a new Generations figure, it just means that some other character in Prime is getting that voyager instead of Prime. They're not going to substitute one resource slot in one subline into another. So no, making fewer Optimi and Bumblebees in other lines isn't going to get you your oh so heavily desired Astrotrain. Not making Springer or Blitzwing would. And frankly, I'd rather we get Springer and Blitzwing.

[JediTricks]

No we don't need another Astrotrain in this line. Not only are there plenty of unrealized characters left to do, but there are far more important characters deserving of a new figure before Astrotrain, such as Starscream and all the Seekers, Ironhide and Ratchet, Smokescreen especially but that whole trio, a US release of Rumble, could use another pass on Megatron and Optimus even. I don't hear anybody bitching about not getting Octane and he's twice as awful as the Classics Astrotrain was. Would a better Astrotrain be nice? Sure. Is it needed? No.

Starscream & his seekers get almost 6+ new molds/repaints in various size scales& in various different alternate universe TF toy lines every year. in 2012-2013 Starscream & his seekers have a whole bunch of new/repaints/various sized toys for FOC/TFP/BH. SURELY STARSCREAM & HIS SEEKERS CAN AFFORD TO SKIP A YEAR OF NEW MOLDS/REPAINTS SO THAT ASTROTRAIN CAN GET A NEW VOYAGER SIZED SCALE GENERATIONS TOYS FOR 2013 OR 2014.

I am only talking about Classics/Generations figures, and in that line there's only 1 Starscream mold and it's not that good. That character is way more important to the brand than Astrotrain, both from character and business perspectives.

Ironhide & ratchet are other character toys that have been flooding the market with new molds/repaints in various different alternate universe TF toy lines for the past 6+ years. SURELY Ratchet & Ironhide CAN AFFORD TO SKIP A YEAR OF NEW MOLDS/REPAINTS SO THAT ASTROTRAIN CAN GET A NEW VOYAGER SIZED SCALE GENERATIONS TOYS FOR 2013 OR 2014.

Same thing, only talking about Classics here. If we were to open your ass-backwards thinking up to this though, we'd STILL come up short because THOSE GUYS ARE IN OTHER MEDIA WHERE ASTROTRAIN ISN'T. You know why we don't get more Astrotrain figures in the movie line or in Prime or Animated? Because he's not in their corresponding media, and that's because HE'S NOT SO IMPORTANT TO THE OVERALL BRAND.

Smokescreen,silverstreak & prowl are other TF characters that have been flooding the market with new molds/repaints in various different alternate universe TF toy lines for the past 7+ years. SURELY SMOKESCREEN,SILVERSTREAK & PROWL CAN AFFORD TO SKIP A YEAR OF NEW MOLDS/REPAINTS SO THAT ASTROTRAIN CAN GET A NEW VOYAGER SIZED SCALE GENERATIONS TOYS FOR 2013 OR 2014.

Sorry, can't hear you anymore, your head has gone too far up your own ass so everything's just coming out muffled... and shitty.

DEPENDS ON A TF FANS TOY PREFERENCE. I actually thought 2.0/25TH Octane was a better sculpted toy than 1.0 Astrotrain was. 2.0 Octane I felt had a less boxy robot mode with a cooler hand weapon. 1.0 Astrotrain,I felt was under sculpted in robot mode & the robot mode was a mess of squares & rectangular shapes.

Enjoy a long life of being wrong. Octane was 3 terrible toys in 1, with bad sculpting in all 3, with a fat, mopey, dumpy face to put a fine point on it.

Megatron & Optimus don't need to have two to three+ new molds in almost every single newer TF toy line. If Hasbro/Takara would just release one big toy for optimus & megatron,they'd be enought toy slots to release some of the 1980's TF characters/toys that never got a new mold or only got one awful new mold.

Except you do that, and Jimmy's poverty-level single mom can't afford to buy him his favourite TF character, which will be his 'only' Transformer for the next three months.

I was thinking about how it's important that we don't immediately condemn decisions Hasbro makes because it's not something *we* would prefer them to do, in our collector interests. This toyline is, after all, supposed to--at least partially--be aimed at children.

I may not be interested in the umpteen versions of Optimus Prime released at retail, but at the same time, I realize that they exist for a lot of reasons. I'm interested in the Huge Predaking because it's Huge, and I want a huge toy of that dude, but I realize that the Voyager exists so that kids--or even other collectors--can get a smaller, more affordable version of the character.

Poor, poor Jimmy! Maybe Toys for Tots will bring him a new Optimus! *comes December* ah, no, it's only an old Furby with no batteries. Maybe next year, Jimmy, maybe next year. *Next year comes* Jimmy died of polio.

Annnnyway, yeah, for me the important thing is that the line is helmed and protected well, that's far more important than just giving the people what they want. I didn't buy Generations Laser Prime but I didn't deride it either.

The Optimus & Megatron new molds don't need to be made in almost all the sizes whenever a newer TF toy line with a cartoon/movie attached to it happens. Optimus & megatron getting made in the legends,commander,deluxe,voyager,leader & sometimes bugger sizes are really not needed,these toy slots can be filled with TF G-1 characters that never got a new mold or received one new mold that was pure awful.

"Mmph mrmm hmmm phm mphmm" that's what you sound like right now. "Why ever would Hasbro want to market their most recognizable and crucial characters to their target audience? That's crazy!" said nobody except you because you would rather the line cave in on itself. You have the most selfish, blind-sided fanboy attitude on this, ignoring that this is a BUSINESS and without those recognizable character sales the line can't support the occasional fanboy stroking in the form of Blitzwing and Springer and such.

I dunno. For Prime, Optimus was only available as Cyberverse, Voyager, and a Weaponizer, if I'm not wrong.

For the 2012 TF Prime toy line Optimus Prime was available in the following toy sizes: Single Bot Shots,Play sets bot shots with megatron & launching trailers gimmicks,Commander,Cyber-Verse huge Optimus Maximus exo-suit,FE Voyager,Rid Voyager,Weaponizers Optimus Prime. This is 7 new molds toys that optimus got in one TF Prime toy line,not counting repaints.

In 2012 Optimus Prime also received a brand new MP TF Hasbro TRU toy. FOC Deluxe sized Optimus Prime.

I don't need a entire box/shelf of newer Optimus Prime toys each year. I'd much rather have other 1980's TF characters that never got a mold or one newer awful mold get a newer toy like a Voyager sized Generations 2013 Astrotrain,Leader sized Overlord,Voyager sized G-1 styled Galvatron. the other 4 G-1 Dinobots get 4 new mold TFP/BH/Generations 2013 deluxe toys. MP-10 G-1 Galvatron instead of it being MP-10 Convoy,etc....

Bot Shots is not Prime or related to Prime in any way.

Cyberverse Commander, Cyberverse Playset, FE Voyager, RID Voyager, Weaponizers, Deluxe-scale entertainment pack/SDCC release; that is the list of the OPs in TFP. All of which has JACK SHIT to do with Generations. What, other lines had other Optimus Primes? NO FUCKIN' WAY! Who would have guessed the MAIN CHARACTER, the ICONIC MAINSTAY OF THE BRAND would be found in other Transformers brands as well? Gasp and shock!

You have an Astrotrain figure in the G1 line and the Generations line, he's done nothing in any other notable media to warrant release there. You don't have to buy all the other figures, but don't begrudge their existence either simply because you saw a mistaken listing for Blitzwing.

[Tigermegatron]

I am only talking about Classics/Generations figures, and in that line there's only 1 Starscream mold.

There is more than one Classics/Generations new mold Starscream toy. There is the Classics 1.0 Deluxe Starscream mold. The Classics/RTS Legends sized starscream mold. The Generation FOC Deluxe Starscream mold.

Poor, poor Jimmy! Maybe Toys for Tots will bring him a new Optimus! *comes December* ah, no, it's only an old Furby with no batteries. Maybe next year, Jimmy, maybe next year. *Next year comes* Jimmy died of polio.

I'll be the first to admit this Jedi story about Jimmy was amusing & funny as hell.

I never liked Jimmy anyways,he's a punk & a bully. For years he's been bullying other kids due to him being taller & fatter than most boy his age.

[Onslaught Six]

...apparently Deathy knows a real Jimmy.

[Gomess]

...and thinks it would be funny if he died of polio

??? aside, from a personal perspective I'll never understand why people want to see new toys of the same characters. Sure, I own some of those exact toys, but ideally I'd prefer to see genuinely *new* TFs take the helm of the franchise. But I'm not so naive as to think that'd be a good business decision.

Optimus Prime = Everyone's money
Astrotrain = Mostly collectors' money
New guy = ??????

I wonder what the sales would look like for a line helmed by Optimus Prime and a brand new Decepticon leader. Total hypothesis of course, but.

[Shockwave]

New technology. Toys are generally able to be far better engineered now than they were 30 years ago and we like to imagine how awesome said toys could be now.

And as for the "New guy" argument, Bulkhead and lugnut would like to have a word with you

[Gomess]

New technology. Toys are generally able to be far better engineered now than they were 30 years ago and we like to imagine how awesome said toys could be now.

And that's fine for the collectors, but in terms of business...? It just seems a bit self-indulgent, and I think that's one of the biggest weaknesses of the TF franchise.

Bulkhead and lugnut would like to have a word with you

I'd like to have a word with them too, but Bumblebee, Ratchet, Jazz, Prowl, Starscream, Blitzwing, Soundwave and Swindle are standing in the way =[

[Shockwave]

Not really if you think about it. I mean, the original line did great at the time and one could naturally assume that a new generation of kids could enjoy that same experience by going back and redoing that original with newer better technology. This is why we have the Classics/Generations line and for the collector's side of it we have the MP collection. We live now in a world where we can have it both ways.

I was citing Bulkhead and Lugnut as examples of new characters that have received a lot of attention in recent years. And probably two of the best things to come out of Animated. Along with lockdown, Slipstream... Prime gave us new characters too in the form of Knockout and Airachnid. Both of whom have already had toys made of them so it's possible we could see more. Beast Hunters seems to be giving us a lot of new characters as well like Lazerback and that other... dragon... guy, who's name I can't remember. Rip... something.