TimeLines (BotCon) 2013 discussion

[Shockwave]

It comes down to how you define "complete". Is it "every character" or "every iteration of every character"?

And, if somebody wants the latter....oi. Or, if somebody just want to be a completist for the character that ends up as the custom class exclusive in the above (hypothetical) example, then there will be rage.

If someone is so crazy that they become physically angry that they might have to pay premium prices to get *another* toy of a guy named Skywarp, then that money would probably be better spent on psychiatric medication of some sort. For serious. The rest of us can just be happy that we have a red-and-white dude named Starscream, a blue dude named Thundercracker, and a black-and-purple dude named Skywarp to stand on the shelf next to each other.

And for the record, I still think the ‘custom class’ is complete bullshit these days; making the ‘end’ figure an actual canon part of the ‘set’ really skews things because now, the majority of people signing up aren’t people who actually have an interest in customizing and want to learn new techniques to pursue that, they’re just guys who want another exclusive toy so they can complete their ‘set’, and that overshadows the point of the whole thing. Not to mention my feelings on going to a ‘custom class’ and getting dragooned into making one particular, specific figure.

I can kind of speak to this a little bit. I generally don't do this, instead preferring to get the "best" representation of a given character, but Shockwave and Bumblebee are my exceptions that I like to be completist on every iteration of those characters. Thanks to this year's (or was it last year's?) Botcon, I'm essentially screwed out of being a Shockwave completist now.

I also think it's bullshit to having the class make one specific figure. If this were truly about the customizing and not just an excuse to shoehorn in yet another exclusive, they would have more sessions on multiple topics. Like say, one on Friday for painting, one on Saturday for tooling and maybe one on Sunday about dealing with those insufferable PINS!!

Ahem.

Anyway...

[Onslaught Six]

Yeah, when Pyro got repainted as Optimus Prime. In Machine Wars. Work with me here, man.

Bringing this back up: Nope! MW Prime is a Thunderclash repaint. Pyro never got repainted. This is why I'm kind of against the idea of using Hot Spot as MW Prime, it's a totally inappropriate vehicle mode.

[BWprowl]

Well, that was retarded of me. Now I just feel embarassed.

Why the hell did I think MW Prime was a Pyro repaint? How the heck did I forget about Thunderclash? Clearly, I must've been high or something at the time.

*kicks self repeatedly*

[Dominic]

And for the record, I still think the ‘custom class’ is complete bullshit these days; making the ‘end’ figure an actual canon part of the ‘set’ really skews things because now, the majority of people signing up aren’t people who actually have an interest in customizing and want to learn new techniques to pursue that, they’re just guys who want another exclusive toy so they can complete their ‘set’, and that overshadows the point of the whole thing. Not to mention my feelings on going to a ‘custom class’ and getting dragooned into making one particular, specific figure.

I am not going to fault somebody for being a completist. Hell, if were going to BotCon regularly and was paying for the full "Primus Package" and had the money for the class, you are damned right that I would at least try to get the full set including the custom class figure. (In real terms, the custom class could be seen as "you buy an incomplete and unpainted toy that you have to assemble and paint".)

also think it's bullshit to having the class make one specific figure. If this were truly about the customizing and not just an excuse to shoehorn in yet another exclusive, they would have more sessions on multiple topics. Like say, one on Friday for painting, one on Saturday for tooling and maybe one on Sunday about dealing with those insufferable PINS!!

Having everybody working on one specific project is a good way of minimizing stupid questions. Everybody just follows along, and learns a thing or two about painting and assembling toys. There is only one guy who teaches the class, meaning that it is only going to be scheduled based on his availability.

Why the hell did I think MW Prime was a Pyro repaint? How the heck did I forget about Thunderclash? Clearly, I must've been high or something at the time.

I was also thinking that MW Prime was recoloured from Pyro. (Of course, we are talking about an obscure mould from an obscure line. So the mistake is understandable.)

Last year's comic used different character models than one of the posters. I know that much.


Dom
-knows it can be safely assumed that the comic will suck.

[Tigermegatron]

Yeah, when Pyro got repainted as Optimus Prime. In Machine Wars. Work with me here, man.

Bringing this back up: Nope! MW Prime is a Thunderclash repaint. Pyro never got repainted. This is why I'm kind of against the idea of using Hot Spot as MW Prime, it's a totally inappropriate vehicle mode.

Pete sinclair has updated his info with more revealing tidbits. http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... air/26324/

In the updated Q & A interview,pete mentions he's doing series 2 for machine wars for botcon 2013. as most don't Know,way back in 1997 the huge DIAMOND distributors comics store book called previews released MW info for series 2 toy characters. in series 2,it mentions machine wars shockwave,rodimus prime,Wreckgar,arcee & springer. HAD MW DONE BETTER IN TOY SALES WE WOULD HAVE GOT WAVE 2 OF MW. I always blamed the high prices & worst retailer called Kaybee toys that hasbro chose to carry the MW toy line. my guess is no other retailer wanted to carry MW.

I & Other TF internet fans in 1997 speculated that series 2 MW Rodimus was going to be a repaint using the Pyro toy mold. while MW series 2 Shockwave was going to be a repaint using the Collossus toy mold. Most were clueless what the other characters in MW series 2 were going to use as repainted toy molds.

Personally,I think doing series 2 for MW botcon 2013 toys is a stupid lame-o fan-wank idea. hardly anyone knows or remembers the 1997 MW series 2 cancelled info that appeared in that big diamond comics previews book. even if some remember,that's barely half of a 1% of the on-line fandom. it just seems like TFCC is all about certain TF fans having superiority complexes & knowing more than the average fan. DOING MORE OBSECURE TF TOY CHARACTERS FOR ANOTHER BOTCON CONVENTION SET IS A RECIPE FOR DISASTER/DOOM/NO SALES.

[BWprowl]

I am not going to fault somebody for being a completist. Hell, if were going to BotCon regularly and was paying for the full "Primus Package" and had the money for the class, you are damned right that I would at least try to get the full set including the custom class figure.

And this is exactly the problem I am trying to make clear: You aren’t even going to the custom class to learn stuff about customization, you’re going just to get another toy. And you’re going despite already being an experienced customizer, who likely has nothing to gain from the rudimentary information spelled out in the custom class, meaning you’re going for no reason, and you’ve potentially taken a spot away from an aspiring, less experienced customizer who’s interest in the process would have been nurtured by going to the class. All because the show-runners prioritized shoe-horning another toy into their already over-large exclusive sets over actually teaching customization skills. That ain’t how it should be like, ya feel me?

(In real terms, the custom class could be seen as "you buy an incomplete and unpainted toy that you have to assemble and paint".)

Exactly. It’s not even a ‘customization class’, it’s ‘be a Hasbro factory worker for a day’, like the rich people who pay to go out to wineries to pick and press grapes as an ‘experience’ all day and get to take a bottle of wine home with them.

I was also thinking that MW Prime was recoloured from Pyro. (Of course, we are talking about an obscure mould from an obscure line. So the mistake is understandable.)

Yeah man, but I actually *care* about this stuff! I should’ve known better!

Last year's comic used different character models than one of the posters. I know that much.

I’ll have to google up comparisons myself when I get home, even though you know, burden of proof, yadda yadda yadda.

Personally,I think doing series 2 for MW botcon 2013 toys is a stupid lame-o fan-wank idea. hardly anyone knows or remembers the 1997 MW series 2 cancelled info that appeared in that big diamond comics previews book. even if some remember,that's barely half of a 1% of the on-line fandom. it just seems like TFCC is all about certain TF fans having superiority complexes & knowing more than the average fan. DOING MORE OBSECURE TF TOY CHARACTERS FOR ANOTHER BOTCON CONVENTION SET IS A RECIPE FOR DISASTER/DOOM/NO SALES.

I dunno man, if FunPub can get a set of more Shattered Glass toys to sell out at premium prices, anything’s possible.

There’s also the point that doing more obscure characters makes more sense for a short-run, fan-focused exclusive, since doing more mainstream, ‘popular’ characters will just guarantee fan-whining. Obligatory mention of Thundergate!

Anyway, I think Tigger might actually be onto something here. The ‘G2’ exclusive set made a point of including several ‘cancelled’ G2 figures, like Streetwise and Cindersaur, so using this next set as a way to bring out some of these ‘lost’ Machine Wars toys would fit. Granted, there’re still enough ‘slots’ that some would have to be taken up by original MW guys, but still.

On the other hand, we JUST GOT versions of Shockwave and Wreck-Gar in last year’s set, so I would *hope* FunPub wouldn’t double up that badly. And we sure as hell don’t need another Springer after the GDO-oh god dammit. I just realized they’re almost certain to paint GDO Springer up in his proposed Machine Wars scheme for this.

[Dominic]

And this is exactly the problem I am trying to make clear: You aren’t even going to the custom class to learn stuff about customization, you’re going just to get another toy. And you’re going despite already being an experienced customizer, who likely has nothing to gain from the rudimentary information spelled out in the custom class, meaning you’re going for no reason, and you’ve potentially taken a spot away from an aspiring, less experienced customizer who’s interest in the process would have been nurtured by going to the class. All because the show-runners prioritized shoe-horning another toy into their already over-large exclusive sets over actually teaching customization skills. That ain’t how it should be like, ya feel me?

I am not an expert customizer. Look at what Figueroa used to do. Look at Fred's Workshop. Look at the Lukis Brothers. Those guys are "expert customizers". They have, and can use, tools and resoureces. They have legitimate skill. I am a guy with middling talent who is smart enough not to attempt projects that are doomed to fail with my skills and resources.

A beginning customizer would be wasting their money and convention time going to that class purely to learn. The class costs maybe $80, and lasts for several hours. A beginner would do better to hit the local hobby shop, grab some paints and cheap figures, and get crackin'. The draw of the class is to get another figure for the set.

I have learned from other customizers, such as Zab. Honey Bear and I have traded tips over the years. (That man can paint, believe you me.) But, I am largely self-taught. I went through some real failures over the years. I did not need a special class. I just needed to paint and fiddle. My young cousin is a beginning customizer. She recently finished a noble effort at customizing a DotM Leadfoot (from Roadbuster I think). (I will likely see the actual toy over Christmas.) She also did some touch up on a DotM Jolt. If she went to BotCon, she would not have enough time to learn from that class. She would almost certainly not finish the project in one day. (Even I would not even try to finish the figure. I would focus on using the tools I would not normally have while there, leaving easier stuff for when I got home.)

Exactly. It’s not even a ‘customization class’, it’s ‘be a Hasbro factory worker for a day’, like the rich people who pay to go out to wineries to pick and press grapes as an ‘experience’ all day and get to take a bottle of wine home with them.

Except that Transfans are not getting nekkid and getting slathered in grape juice. Make of that what you will.

I’ll have to google up comparisons myself when I get home, even though you know, burden of proof, yadda yadda yadda.

I am lazy. And, I am annoyed that RTS Tracks and "Generations" Wheeljack only have context in the Japanese follow-up to this year's shitty comic.

There’s also the point that doing more obscure characters makes more sense for a short-run, fan-focused exclusive, since doing more mainstream, ‘popular’ characters will just guarantee fan-whining. Obligatory mention of Thundergate!

It would be justified complaining. Due. there is no reason for a popular character to be that scarce.


Dom
-down for next year's Breakdown and Takara Artfire.

[BWprowl]

I am not an expert customizer. Look at what Figueroa used to do. Look at Fred's Workshop. Look at the Lukis Brothers. Those guys are "expert customizers". They have, and can use, tools and resoureces. They have legitimate skill. I am a guy with middling talent who is smart enough not to attempt projects that are doomed to fail with my skills and resources.

A beginning customizer would be wasting their money and convention time going to that class purely to learn. The class costs maybe $80, and lasts for several hours. A beginner would do better to hit the local hobby shop, grab some paints and cheap figures, and get crackin'. The draw of the class is to get another figure for the set.

I have learned from other customizers, such as Zab. Honey Bear and I have traded tips over the years. (That man can paint, believe you me.) But, I am largely self-taught. I went through some real failures over the years. I did not need a special class. I just needed to paint and fiddle. My young cousin is a beginning customizer. She recently finished a noble effort at customizing a DotM Leadfoot (from Roadbuster I think). (I will likely see the actual toy over Christmas.) She also did some touch up on a DotM Jolt. If she went to BotCon, she would not have enough time to learn from that class. She would almost certainly not finish the project in one day. (Even I would not even try to finish the figure. I would focus on using the tools I would not normally have while there, leaving easier stuff for when I got home.)

So...we're on the same page then? That the 'customization class' utterly fails as a class on customization and should stop being promoted as such and be advertised as something else, like 'Exclusive assembly fun-time'? Hell, why not just pay $80 and they hand you a complete figure? Saves time and effort in getting their special toy, which I'm sure everyone who attends the 'class' these days would rather do.

Except that Transfans are not getting nekkid and getting slathered in grape juice. Make of that what you will.

Um, I don't know how much naked slathering actually goes on at these events, but I admit that I haven't asked the friend I have who works at a winery for that many details, so...

I am lazy. And, I am annoyed that RTS Tracks and "Generations" Wheeljack only have context in the Japanese follow-up to this year's shitty comic.

RTS Tracks and Generations Wheeljack are just new toys of Geewun Tracks and Wheeljack; they've got context in every story the Geewun guys appeared in.

It would be justified complaining. Due. there is no reason for a popular character to be that scarce.

Just to double back on this I'm going to point out (again) that at the time the 2007 BotCon set came out, most people were under the impression that there would never be more Classics toys ever, so FunPub figured they were doing people a favor by giving them the rest of the Seekers before the line was completely dead.

[Dominic]

I never said that Thundergate was the fault of Fun Publications.

RTS Tracks and Generations Wheeljack are just new toys of Geewun Tracks and Wheeljack; they've got context in every story the Geewun guys appeared in.

They never appeared in those bodies though....

[BWprowl]

They never appeared in those bodies though....

You mean the ones that look exactly like Tracks and Wheeljack? This is like trying to argue that a DCUC Batman toy doesn't have context. Of course it has context, it's goddamn Batman!