All Hail Megatron Discussion thread

The modern comics universe has had such a different take on G1, one that's significantly represented by the Generations toys, so they share a forum. A modern take on a Real Cybertronian Hero. Currently starring Generations toys, IDW "The Transformers" comics, MTMTE, TF vs GI Joe, and Windblade. Oh wait, and now Skybound, wheee!
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Sparky Prime
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Re: All Hail Megatron volume I

Post by Sparky Prime »

Dominic wrote:It is not just the pacing, it is the direction. Furman was not taking the "_____-ion" book anywhere because he had no place to take them. Furman had nothing to say beyong "hey, look, TFs doin' stuff". Furman cannot write more than a few issues without reverting to his worst habits.
I honestly can't see how you can claim Furman had no direction with those stories. There were a lot of plots going on that all still managed to tie together. On the small scale, we had just what was going on with Earth. The Decepticons in their 'Infiltration' stage of conquering the planet. And we also had various groups of humans working on fighting against or otherwise working with the Transformers. Meanwhile, we also see a universal plot going on with the Transformers literally spread out across the universe and the various consequences that brings. Plus there was the 'Dead Universe' plot which also had connections to the various levels of the plot. This truly was a universe spanning story Furman had going that showed us many, many different levels of the war between the Transformers. If the pacing had been a little faster, maybe you would have seen that.
McCarthy, on the other hand, at least seems to have something to say in AHM.
And that would be how to put an audience to sleep? Honestly, how has the plot moved at all since the first issue?
"Stormbringer" showed that Cybertron was becoming habitable again.
Not really. They 'thought' that might have been what was going on when they detected energy readings from Cybertron, but that turned out to be Bludgeon and co. working on reviving Thunderwing. And it was still made very clear Cybertron is still a very inhospitable planet.
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Re: All Hail Megatron volume I

Post by Onslaught Six »

Sparky Prime wrote:And that would be how to put an audience to sleep? Honestly, how has the plot moved at all since the first issue?
Bad move, Sparky.

The Decepticons own New York and, I believe, Beijing, among other places. We're following some army guys huddled together in a subway station. Sparkplug thinks Spike is dead, but he isn't. Kup showed up. Roadbuster has dialogue! The Decepticons are beginning to slowly crumble from the inside out, what with the Seekers themselves breaking down, and Skywarp's argument with the Insecticons, and there's clear resentment towards the Constructicons too. (I fully expect before the end of this series, there will be a full-on Decepticon civil war.) Meanwhile, Prime's dead, and Ironhide's beating the hell out of Mirage because he thinks Mirage is a traitor. And then there's Drift, who sucks and has no reason to be there and I'm just 'waiting' for him to do some OMG BADAZZ stuff to ruin this.

Oh, and some world leaders are gonna try to nuke New York, which is a bad move.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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Re: All Hail Megatron volume I

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Onslaught Six wrote:The Decepticons own New York and, I believe, Beijing, among other places. We're following some army guys huddled together in a subway station. Sparkplug thinks Spike is dead, but he isn't. Kup showed up. Roadbuster has dialogue! The Decepticons are beginning to slowly crumble from the inside out, what with the Seekers themselves breaking down, and Skywarp's argument with the Insecticons, and there's clear resentment towards the Constructicons too. (I fully expect before the end of this series, there will be a full-on Decepticon civil war.) Meanwhile, Prime's dead, and Ironhide's beating the hell out of Mirage because he thinks Mirage is a traitor. And then there's Drift, who sucks and has no reason to be there and I'm just 'waiting' for him to do some OMG BADAZZ stuff to ruin this.

Oh, and some world leaders are gonna try to nuke New York, which is a bad move.
So humans are desperate to fight back and going no where. Decepticons rule Earth and are bored, and bickering among themselves. Autobots are trapped on Cybertron with no leader, no direction. Sounds no different than issue 1 to me.
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Re: All Hail Megatron volume I

Post by Onslaught Six »

Sometimes it's not the destination--it's the journey.
BWprowl wrote:The internet having this many different words to describe nerdy folks is akin to the whole eskimos/ice situation, I would presume.
People spend so much time worrying about whether a figure is "mint" or not that they never stop to consider other flavours.
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Re: All Hail Megatron volume I

Post by Sparky Prime »

Onslaught Six wrote:Sometimes it's not the destination--it's the journey.
Well then someone needs to tell them the train left 6 issues ago...
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Re: All Hail Megatron volume I

Post by BWprowl »

I'm (unsurprisingly) with Dom and Six on this one; I'll take well-written character interaction over fast-paced plot advancement any Wednesday of the month. I said a while back that the pacing of AHM was definitely slow, but it feels *deliberate* and, dare I say, natural. Especially the tension in the Autobot ranks. The graduation from Ironhide sniping at Prowl to finally beating down Mirage was masterfully done, especially since it was shown as something that had been brewing in him for a long time, as opposed to the quick "Mental Snap" so many other writers like to go for in similar situations. This wasn't just Ironhide cracking under the pressure of their situation, he *made* time for this. It's like the difference between Manslaughter and Murder. And while it may not have been the biggest plot leap compared to "Holy geeze Jhiaxus made a planet of Micromasters that also has the hole to the Dead Universe and Arcee tracked him there and got help from an undead Hardhead and now the Micromasters call it Cybertron which contributes NOTHING to any plot!", but it sure as hell changed the way I'm gonna look at Ironhide for a long time now, and I definitely think that's better.

Frankly, Furman seemed to be making up a lot of the "-ion" series as he went along. How else do you explain stuff like the Search for Sunstreaker, which was specifically designed to kill time? Or his habit of forgetting about Verity and Jimmy half the time in 'Devastation'? Or the fact that he actually wrote in an 'Off Switch' for Sixshot so he could take him out of the story as easily as possible when it was neccessary? Or the decompressing of the Ark's crash, to the point where it took nearly two full issues for the damn thing to hit the ground? Now admittedly, these problems all mostly come from Devastation, but the others are guilty of this sort of crap as well. Devastation's just the one I hated the most...

Really, if you want to talk about plot progression, refer to 'Spotlight: Ramjet', where they masterfully crammed all the same sort of plot machinations you would expect from a full "-ion" mini into *a single issue*.

But hey, that's just me.

Over time, most people forget the specifics of any given plot. It's the characters that stick with you.
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Re: All Hail Megatron volume I

Post by Sparky Prime »

BWprowl wrote:I said a while back that the pacing of AHM was definitely slow, but it feels *deliberate* and, dare I say, natural. Especially the tension in the Autobot ranks.
See now, this is my biggest issue with AHM because to me, the pacing doesn't feel natural. Ok, the Autobot's are in a bad situation being trapped on Cybertron with Optimus on deaths doorstep. I get it already. There should be some hint of salvation for them by now. That's what I was hoping Kup's arrival would bring. Instead it' just brought more Autobots getting stuck on the planet. And frankly, Ironhide beating up Mirage I don't find a plot progression. That's just showing how frustrated he is and willing he is to take it out on who he *thinks might* have betrayed them. I feel for Ironhide. I'd hate to be stuck in a story that doesn't move too. The Decepticon side of the story isn't any better. Conquer Earth and then what? They haven't really done much of anything since. It shouldn't take this long for something significant to happen in a story.
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Re: All Hail Megatron volume I

Post by onslaught86 »

Okay, to explain.

I tried following the first few [x]-ion series, but Furman's pacing put me off. The issues were not satisfying. They felt like that slowed-down intro to a movie that drags on just a little bit too long for budget purposes, as if they can't afford to show off the movie's special effects in full force. I enjoy the disguise aspect of Transformers, but what I really love is the spectacle. That first cover with Megatron standing in the middle of a panicked city street - the James Raiz cover - I have that on my wall. But did that issue contain Megs standing on a street? Uh, hm, no.
That, unfortunately, summed up my experience to date with IDW's main continuity. I thought Stormbringer excessively gimmicky and uninteresting, it felt like a hook for people who Luv Dem Robuts and Hayte Dem Hyoomuns and very little else.

The Spotlights were really my only pull, since the likes of Shockwave, Kup, Wheelie, and Blurr's stand out as among my favourite TF fiction. Problems arose when Furman felt the need to remove the spotlight and make it a second running series, especially one with an overblown and uninteresting concept. Oh, hooray, a parallel universe full of Threevil Negative Energies.

Thus, the root of my problem. IDW went to two extremes. From 'nothing' TF-wise except subtle hints that Aliens May Be Around to full blown Furmanism with space battles and random alien races and all sorts of silly things. They skipped the standard spectacle where The Transformers are revealed and dealt with by humanity at large.

All Hail Megatron appeals on several different levels. For the fan who's looking for something accessable, it may as well be a continuity reboot, as no prior knowledge is needed. For the fan who's looking for something like the movie, but more GeeWun and retro, it's perfect, as it applies the movie's realistic context and scale to the traditional Transformers characters and designs. For the shameless fanboy looking for something Transformers that's got something new, something old, and something awesome, it's all of the above. It is not, however, for the fan who has read everything simply 'because' it's Transformers, and likes it for the same reason.

Consider that G2 and BM are two of my favourite series also. A lot of the time it's more about keeping a story consistent to itself than it is about continuing what's set out. Personally, I would rather AHM were NOT tied to IDW continuity, as that way more people could enjoy it as a stand-alone item the way I have. It disappointed me slightly that Sunstreaker tied it so specifically to Maximum Dinobots (Damn you, cross-sells!) as I rather liked thinking of it in terms of the same kind of non-specific G1 that slotted into BW.

AHM works as stand-alone, and it does advance its characters within the continuity of the story itself, not so much of the company's storyline. As Dom says, it's better to have a book out there that's good than it is a book that's perfectly in continuity. Transformers has always done this, and we as fans have always patched the holes. See: All of G1, BW-BM, ArmEnerTron, Rebirth vs. HeadMasterVictoryForce, and endless comic debates. That this is no different is no surprise. That this is good, well, it's really just about everything I'd like in a G1-themed TF movie.
So humans are desperate to fight back and going no where. Decepticons rule Earth and are bored, and bickering among themselves. Autobots are trapped on Cybertron with no leader, no direction. Sounds no different than issue 1 to me.
To be fair, we didn't know the humans got nowhere, that the Decepticons were bored and bickering, or where the Autobots were in the first issue.
Well then someone needs to tell them the train left 6 issues ago...
Hey, Astrotrain got a good showing in those first few issues!
Hell, you may as well expect Megatron to become Galvatron in a couple years.
Five Dollars says they do turn a Megatron into a Galvatron at some point.
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Re: All Hail Megatron volume I

Post by BWprowl »

Sparky Prime wrote:
BWprowl wrote:I said a while back that the pacing of AHM was definitely slow, but it feels *deliberate* and, dare I say, natural. Especially the tension in the Autobot ranks.
See now, this is my biggest issue with AHM because to me, the pacing doesn't feel natural. Ok, the Autobot's are in a bad situation being trapped on Cybertron with Optimus on deaths doorstep. I get it already. There should be some hint of salvation for them by now. That's what I was hoping Kup's arrival would bring.
You wha? I don't know if you noticed, but "Good Guys Win" hasn't exactly been a recurring theme in this series. The entire idea is that it's hopeless, and that the arrival of newly-badass-Kup and the Neo-Wreckers does nothing to help them only reinforces that feeling.
Instead it' just brought more Autobots getting stuck on the planet. And frankly, Ironhide beating up Mirage I don't find a plot progression. That's just showing how frustrated he is and willing he is to take it out on who he *thinks might* have betrayed them.
So you don't think that an Autobot, an 'Old Guard' guy who's supposed to embody the best of their ideals, deliberately going after one of his own comrades and nearly beating him to death to be that significant? Dude, that's *never* happened before in TF. You know what has happened before? Epic battles across multiple planets with bad guys from ANOTHER WORLD!
The Decepticon side of the story isn't any better. Conquer Earth and then what? They haven't really done much of anything since. It shouldn't take this long for something significant to happen in a story.
Again, the entire point is that the Decepticons are unsure of what they're doing next. Yeah, they're sitting around bored, but that's what they *should* be doing. It's natural behavior in their situation. Meanwhile, the humans actually are moving their part of the story along quite nicely. We've got the resistance groups who are on the run in the subway, and you know the plot thread with Spike is going to pick up in the next couple issues, right? Probably about the same time the Europeans go through with their plan to nuke New York.

See? Stuff is happening. Just beacause there's no HYOOGE EPIKK shake-ups to the status quo, doesn't mean the plot isn't going anywhere.
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Re: All Hail Megatron volume I

Post by Dominic »

Prowl nailed it with his description of the Decepticons. In all seriousness, I am considering using parts of AHM as an example in a class I hope to be teaching in the fall. Without something to do, the 'Cons are falling on each other. (Thundercracker and Skywarp are friends. But, notice how Thundercracker is bothered by having down time and Skywarp is just bored. And, that is completely discounting their dynamic with the Insecticons.)


The Ironhide/Mirage dynamic did show up briefly in G1. The cartoon did a version of this with Mirage and Cliffjumper. (Cliffjumper doubted Mirage in an episode of the cartoon, I think it was called "Traitor".) And, early issues of the comics had some Autobots making snide remarks about Mirage's loyalties. .


As an aside: I am pretty sure Megatron will not be turned into Galvatron here, as they have already introduced a Galvatron. (And, let us hope Megatron does not turn into Galvatron.





As Dom says, it's better to have a book out there that's good than it is a book that's perfectly in continuity. Transformers has always done this, and we as fans have always patched the holes. See: All of G1, BW-BM, ArmEnerTron, Rebirth vs. HeadMasterVictoryForce, and endless comic debates. That this is no different is no surprise. That this is good, well, it's really just about everything I'd like in a G1-themed TF movie.
I think what Sparky is complaining about here is that the fans should not have to do the kind of editing you mention.

And, to be fair, Sparky is right on that. Where I disagree with him is where and when that sort of thing needs to be done by official parties. I am fine if IDW gets to it in a reasonable amount of time. And, they certainly do not need to disrupt a story that can stand on its own to do it. Sparky seems to be less patient than I am on this front. (So, who wants to point out just how screwy it is that *I* am being less forgiving than Sparky on something?)


Dom
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